Ignorant Civies

[RTaylor]

People are dicks no matter where you go. Some feel it's their right to be a dumbass, and I'm not one to stop them.

Back when I was a reservist people saw me in uniform and thought I was a complete death machine. And I'm not violent at all. I had people tell me that they were afraid of me, and these were the local tuff guys in the neighborhood.

Tales even stoll abound around some of the old towns I lived in about how I can shoot a mile with a rifle into somoene's eye, infiltrate and kill without a sound and kill a person with only 1 hit. It's hilarious...I've had some good times over these tall tales.

And I have never talked about what I have done or what I was doing, people just love letting their imaginations run wild after watching Hamburger Hill, Saving Private Ryan, Sniper and so forth. It's not our fault that some look at us like monsters and others as heroes. It's media that does it.

The Armed Forces needs to put out more info to the public on all aspects...seems to me that they hide from the public and are shy about doing anything that would straighten out the facts.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Hello, my name is Richie and I'm a new member on this site; I have been lurking for a while and thought I would join in. I have no military connections or experience.

I try to keep up with military affairs partly out of interest and partly because I'm a taxpayer so I hope that I can occasionally contribute some intelligent comments to ongoing discussions. I'm sure I'll ask questions that may sound basic to you, but then we're not in the same line of work so please bear with me.

Cheers,
Richie

Welcome aboard Richie.  As my ultimate boss (ie a taxpayer) your views are as valid here as anyone else's.

 

[Loachman]

it's just that as Canadians, we're not comfortable approaching strangers and offering to shake their hand and thank them.

And I'm not particularly comfortable being the recipient of that. While it's far preferable to a Nazi salute or something similar, I still find it a little embarrassing. I like what I do, I find it extremely satisfying, and I am well-paid. I do not think that I am anything special because of what I chose to do, though. I'd rather be treated no differently than anybody else.

A simple "hello" is nice, and I'll quite happily answer almost any question from a curious citizen.

I know that some of you folks in the military have had bad experiences with members of the public, but let's face it, there are idiots everywhere.

Don't worry. Most of us are well aware of that. We have our share as well, as you may have/will notice(d).

Please don't judge all of us civilians based on the actions of a few NDP supporters or whatever.

I don't think that too many do, and anybody that does is merely acting in the same way as those whom they complain about. We interact with far more civilians than most civilians do with us.

I'm sure I'll ask questions that may sound basic to you, but then we're not in the same line of work so please bear with me.

Feel free - but as a Mod I have to mention the Search Function...

 

[dimsum]

I found that UWO was a fairly establishment-friendly place for a university (as compared to other Canadian schools).

Completely agree.  I'm sure that most students in UWO would be surprised (pleasantly or unpleasantly is up for grabs) that for a while, perhaps still now, the head of the USC was an ex-RCR Major.  Wouldn't surprise me that other people in admin are ex-military as well...London's an old Army town. 

When I was at UWO, I helped out in the Remembrance Week events (and was commissioner for a year) and had nothing but support from the student population.  And free drinks.  ;D

 

[Richie]

Thank you for the welcome. I appreciate it 

Why do a minority of Canadians look down on our military? Perhaps it's just the result of fifty or so years' of Pearsonian peacekeeping. If politicians keep saying that Canadian soldiers are "peace keepers" year after year, eventually it just becomes a mantra that lulls the public to sleep.

I think as well, that there is a dearth of knowledge about this nation's history; a lot of people out there don't even know when World War II started, let alone the role Canada played in liberating Europe. For a long time, it was simply considered politically incorrect to teach Canadian history in public schools: our role in the Boer War, WWI, WWII and Korea. I don't know if this has changed or not.

Another factor I can see at work is good old-fashioned anti-Americanism amongst certain segments of the Canadian public. This knee-jerk anti-Americanism has become associated with an aversion to all things military and our military has become a convenient target for self-righteous comments and insults.

Just some more thoughts on the topic. As I said, I think we're dealing with a very vocal and a very rude minority; most Canadians support the military, but we are a reserved people by nature.

 

[Loachman]

This knee-jerk anti-Americanism

This is the equivalent of penis envy on a national level - small-minded, small-dicked people.

 

[aesop081]

For some people, being Canadian means being anti-american

:

 

[Yrys]

For some people, being Canadian means being anti-american

Francophones journalists, when speaking about how to define "being  Canadian",
are saying that for a lot of people it can be resuming to "I'm not American".
Didn't saw that in English newspapers.

 

[George Wallace]

Why do a minority of Canadians look down on our military? Perhaps it's just the result of fifty or so years' of Pearsonian peacekeeping. If politicians keep saying that Canadian soldiers are "peace keepers" year after year, eventually it just becomes a mantra that lulls the public to sleep.

There are a few very good reasons for that.  The Vietnam War saw many Anti-War Protesters and Draft Dodgers move north and settle in Canada.  Then we have had a large influx of Refugees from Vietnam and many other Third World Countries, who came here escaping brutal Military Regimes.  Add to this the fact that in the Seventies and Eighties the Liberal Government closed down immigration from European and Commonwealth countries in favour of many of those Third World countries.  Now we have a large number of people in Canada who have perceptions of all militaries being the same and all having "brutal" philosophies behind them.   These people in the end tar the Canadian Military with the same broad brush as the military of some Third World Despot.

 

[joonrooj]

Best thing I've had said to me/to unit:
On BFT, family bikes by, father slows down: "Thank you for doing what you do."

Annoying thing:
Marching to Regimental church (a few blocks away from armouries), kids biking by start humming Imperial March

Uninformed thing:
"How many times have you been to Iraq?"
"Um. none, CDNs arent in Iraq."
"yes they are, I just saw it on the news."

**edited for spelling

 

[aesop081]

Uniformed thing:
"How many times have you been to Iraq?"
"Um. none, CDNs arent in Iraq."
"yes they are, I just saw it on the news."

Not too long ago, the CBC was doing a story on Iraq and showed footage of Canadian troops in Afghanistan at the same time, so i cant blame those civvies there.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

When my hubster was training for deployment on TF 1-07, my sister mentioned to me about how worried she was for his safety...and as a result her worry for the well-being of our family.

I tried to explain in layman's terms what his job with the task force actually was, and how he was relatively safe since he'd be a "hescoe hobbit" and not leave KAF.

She gave me alot of resistence and tried to tell me that the army was just telling us that, and that he'd really be out on the front lines and on "death's doorstep" so to speak.

I couldn't believe that she honestly thought that the Canadian Government and subsequently the military was involved in such high level conspiracy that they'd be lying to their own soldiers as to what their jobs/roles were and why we were in Afghanistan in the first place.

I asked her if she thought all the vets that come home were brainwashed or had their memory erased so as not to "leak the truth" to those going over to replace them.

I was incredulous at the fact that, as a civilian who reads the newspaper, she thought she had more info on the what/why of Afghanistan than my husband and I who, essentially, were in the thick of it and closer connections to the news sources than she did.

THIS is the sort of ignorance that I find annoying. Though I know her questions were based out of concern for me and my family, it actually made me cut off most of the contact with family while my husband served his tour. It was more stressful for me to field questions and comments like these than it was to deal with being a solo parent for six months.

Just sayin'

Regards,

CAW

 

[Kat Stevens]

That's nothing new... When I was posted to Germany in 88, all my in-laws were convinced that there was a Red Brigade cell lurking behind every mailbox, and I was taking their daughter and grandchildren into an undeclared combat zone.

 

[infanteer-it]

I've seen good and bad feedback from civies when in uniform. After reading some of the comebacks for the negative feedback I'll share one of my own...not funny but it gets the job done.

girl in bar: I don't approve of the military.
me: why not?
girl: <shrug>I just don't think we need one.
me: I see.... Let me ask you something. If you saw someone running down the street right next to us being chased by someone who wanted to hurt or kill him, you would want someone to stop them right?
girl: of course.
me: well who would do it?
girl: the police would do it.
me: I see... so now, what if that person was being chased two streets away and even though you couldn't see or hear it you knew it was still happening. would you still want someone to stop it?
girl: yeah of course I would.
me: would the police take care of that one too?
girl: yep.
me: Well... let me ask you now.... how far away does it have to be before you just don't give a shit anymore?
girl: uhh... uhh.... i never thought about it that way...

Just thought I'd share one that worked for me.

Cheers!

 

[TCBF]

That's nothing new... When I was posted to Germany in 88, all my in-laws were convinced that there was a Red Brigade cell lurking behind every mailbox, and I was taking their daughter and grandchildren into an undeclared combat zone.

- There was, and you were.

8)

TCBF: Lahr 87 - 92.

 

[infamous_p]

I've seen good and bad feedback from civies when in uniform. After reading some of the comebacks for the negative feedback I'll share one of my own...not funny but it gets the job done.

girl in bar: I don't approve of the military.
me: why not?
girl: <shrug>I just don't think we need one.
me: I see.... Let me ask you something. If you saw someone running down the street right next to us being chased by someone who wanted to hurt or kill him, you would want someone to stop them right?
girl: of course.
me: well who would do it?
girl: the police would do it.
me: I see... so now, what if that person was being chased two streets away and even though you couldn't see or hear it you knew it was still happening. would you still want someone to stop it?
girl: yeah of course I would.
me: would the police take care of that one too?
girl: yep.
me: Well... let me ask you now.... how far away does it have to be before you just don't give a crap anymore?
girl: uhh... uhh.... i never thought about it that way...

Just thought I'd share one that worked for me.

Cheers!

Clever

 

[Southern Boy]

What's the problem here? You can eat your buttons. The thing is they are very hard to chew and swallowing can lead to choking. The biggest problem is the fact that you can't do up your shirt afterwards, and then you get cold. I had a friend of a friend who ate his buttons once because he was hungry, but then the QM made him pay for the shirt when he tried to exchange it! You just can't win.                BTW, is it also true that there CD medal is actually a gold-foil wrapped chocolate you can munch on if you get hungry while on parade??

 

[Loachman]

What's the problem here? You can eat your buttons. The thing is they are very hard to chew and swallowing can lead to choking. The biggest problem is the fact that you can't do up your shirt afterwards, and then you get cold. I had a friend of a friend who ate his buttons once because he was hungry, but then the QM made him pay for the shirt when he tried to exchange it! You just can't win.                 BTW, is it also true that there CD medal is actually a gold-foil wrapped chocolate you can munch on if you get hungry while on parade??

Huh?

 

[211RadOp]

I think it is a tongue and cheek method of showing how ignorant some people can be.

Goes along with how we get free food, accomodations, don't pay taxes, etc.

 

[helpup]

My experiences, dealing with Reserves in Halifax, to Regs starting in London, Petawawa, Ottawa, Gagetown/Freddytown is by the large good.  Most of the minor kids being stupid I have experienced, along with adults being ignorant.  And I mean the literal definition of ignorant.  They are lack the facts.  By and large though good comments, or innocent questions that over a 2-5 min conversation was answered by me,  usually leaving a Civi a bit more informed if not with a change of opinion.  Free coffee, hand shakes were about equal to anything that would be derogatory.  Yet by and large I found most people for or against really don't get the Canadian Military. 

For that we just need to look at the schools,  history is not what it use to be let alone anything that would bring up more then a passing comment about our country's involvement.  and it generally gets worded as that " our country's involvement in.......  Then along came Peacekeeping and we were no longer soldiers but Peacekeepers ( I still shudder at that term used as a noun).  Throw removal of a higher presence in most of our cities and you have a recipe for Civi's not having a clue.  Heck even living in London I a Dr. Father of a girl I dated asking with real suprise.  Canada has a Army?!?!  He was serious.  But that was more then 15 years ago, and even in the Dark Somalia days where in Pet/ Pembroke wives or soldiers were called baby killers by young and old ( some but not most thank God)

Now though we are more in the public eye good or bad and I just look to those who show up for a Repat at Trenton, or line the Hwy to TO.
I dint have to respect someones belief to do my job.  But the moments I look at those who can/do care even if they don't know as much as what I think they should.  Those moments give me hope that for now at least Canadians get it.