Ignorant Civies

[marshall sl]

I remember playing pool in the Legion near my home after a Parade nightin the late 70's.Some clown came over and said" Army Guy eh? Where's your tank?" I replied "Parked on your car" he did not like it and wanted to fight, said anyone in the army was a   ***! I reminded himthat he was in a Legion and he should watch his mouth. Several of the other patrons( Veterans ) had come over and encouraged him to leave. Still chuckle about that

 

[Alex252]

" Army Guy eh? Where's your tank?" I replied "Parked on your car"
How do you guys think of such good comebacks?

Anyways, Im going to use an example as it may realate to you and the positive/negative attention you get. My family has a cottage up by a place called Elgin about a 45 min drive from Kingston. When ever we go up there its like 2 different worlds. We live near Toronto, Whitby to be exact, and the treatment here is fine. Then when I go into town at my cottage I feel like a king. The treatment by far surpasses any place Ive been. Well the way I see how it relates to you guys is that maybe if you were in a more quiet less publicized/advertised place you'd get more positive comments.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Victoria is a much different town now in it's approach to military personnel than it was in the 80's.  Then, it was pretty much a guaranteed insult or much worse if anyone found out that you were in the military.  Now- wow.  It is great.  There is the odd insulting comment, but even most of the "hard-core protest everything types" out here on the left coast don't really get too personal (or maybe I've just been lucky).  I put this down to a real effort by several Admirals in a row to build bridges between the military and civilian communities.  We are in the news alot here and most of it is positive.

I would echo what several others have said here- if you meet with civilians who say something insulting to you- be polite, smile and try to turn it into a learning situation for them- most of it comes from straight ignorance of what we do. Educate!

 

[Cyloh]

Just this past weekend a bunch of us were on a course in Nanaimo and on the return ferry home to Vancouver this one civy approached us and shook all of our hands and thanked us for what we did and he said we should get more funding. I still can't get over what he did. In my two and a half years in the reserves ive never gotten quite a reaction like that. It was really cool. The most common reaction I get from people when im in uniform are long stares and stupid questions like if we've found BinLaden yet. The worst question ive ever gotten is if i was in the air force, when in my cadpat uniform.
But when you get good words of encouragement and support from random people in random places its all worth it. People who do things like that make me want to approach other people in uniform, like policemen, and thank them for what they're doing.

 

[pbi]

It's only around the parking lot (which is normal) and along the side of the armories which facess the park.  A few years back they tried throwing up a barb-wire fence around the entire ermory, but that idea got scrapped for reasons unknown.

I was in LFCA HQ at that time. ASU Toronto and 32 CBG were very concerned about the security problems at MPA (nothing new-it was a shit hole neighbourhood when I was in the RRegtC 1974-1982) and decided to put up a fence.  I toured the site: it had been turned into a public toilet-literally: the stuff was ankle-deep in the sunken areas along the walls of the building, garbage everywhere. Sickening, and far worse than it had been in the '80's.

Somehow the Minister of National Defense's (remember Art Eggleton.....?) staff found out about it, and we were instructed that a fence would "send the wrong message". So, no fence. This was of course ridiculous PC rubbish at its worst, but it epitomized the extent to which the MNDs portfolio and his riding (and the Liberals' political concerns about their vote-factory in T.O., especially downtown...) got confused on an alarmingly regular basis. Bossi knows what I mean, right mark?  Cheers.

 

[Simpleton]

I was checking into a hotel a while back, dressed in CADPAT, and there was a couple of guys in front of me waiting in line also. They were in their mid-20s and glanced back at me a couple of times. One of them turned around and asked if I was in the Canadian Military and I thought "here it comes, going to give me a hard time about wasting tax payers dollars on a hotel". I told him I was and he grabbed his buddy and said, "You go in front of us. We never treat our military well and the least we can do is limit your time in line".

I was shocked, but quickly realised that the average Canadian is changing.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Let's see, where to begin with this one...

"Are you going to Iraq?" - serious question, multiple times.

I've been called a cadet, and a scout, while in uniform. (some chick with her boyfriend walked by two others and myself and said something along the lines of "What are they, scouts? Look they even have the matching bag") She was saying all this seriously, I had my CADPAT daypack on. That one pissed me off.

On halloween I was asked if it was a costume. (This could be excusable, but if civies can't even recognize their own Army's uniform, you know there is something wrong, that goes with the above thing too)

One of the things that really bugs me is "Ten-hut" from people in cars driving by, or teenagers.

ts also hilarious to get responses on the otherside of the spectrum. One time i walked into a Tim Hortons after a parade. The customers glanced at me , then moved away. The employee that served me decided to give me my order free of charge.( I found this particually odd because it was a fairly large order) When I asked him why, he said "Its the least i can do for a member of the CF." this shocked me oncce again because i had at least eight markings on me that identified me as a cadet (including the word CADET on my epaulette) i thanked him and told him that i was just a cadet and he gave me the meal anyway.

i only hope that this hospitality wasn't only for me and was given to actual service members

 

[bossi]

i only hope that this hospitality wasn't only for me and was given to actual service members

During Op RECUPERATION we'd send the Air LO out for coffee to Tim's at approx 0300 hrs
(i.e. in order to make him do something useful at least once a day ... OK - just kidding ... a little ...!)

Anyway, he staggers back to the Ops Centre with several of those HUGE party boxes full of doughnuts ... and his fate was sealed - from that night onwards, his sole reason for living was to go back to Tim's each and every night at the same time ...

Now, if I could only find a car dealership with such patriotic fervor ...

 

[foerestedwarrior]

Now, if I could only find a car dealership with such patriotic fervor ...

lol, i have had many veterens stop and talk to me in the street(sidewalks actually), and most thank me for serving them. They are greatfull that there are still some that will do what they did, to protect the country, possibly at the cost of our own lives. I personally have had many more good than bad experiances, but from what i have heard, they are getting much better.

 

[48Highlander]

Somehow the Minister of National Defense's (remember Art Eggleton.....?) staff found out about it, and we were instructed that a fence would "send the wrong message". So, no fence. This was of course ridiculous PC rubbish at its worst, but it epitomized the extent to which the MNDs portfolio and his riding (and the Liberals' political concerns about their vote-factory in T.O., especially downtown...) got confused on an alarmingly regular basis.

Yeah we all figgured it was something like that.  I was a fairly new soldier at the time if I remember correctly, but had already started noticing the touchy-feely trend within the CF/government.  I remember that none of us were sure exactly why the fence was being scrapped, but were cracking jokes about not wanting the army to seem too threatening.  Incidentaly, that was about the same time that we got the order not to wear our webbing in public so we wouldn't intimidate anyone :  Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

 

[Blindspot]

Yeah we all figgured it was something like that.   I was a fairly new soldier at the time if I remember correctly, but had already started noticing the touchy-feely trend within the CF/government.   I remember that none of us were sure exactly why the fence was being scrapped, but were cracking jokes about not wanting the army to seem too threatening.   Incidentaly, that was about the same time that we got the order not to wear our webbing in public so we wouldn't intimidate anyone :   Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

Do you mean while on public transportation? We used to do training in the Don Valley, High Park and that park across from Fort York with webbing and rifles. I always wondered what went through the minds of picnicing civillians who looked up from their ham and cheese on bagel to see a fully camouflaged soldier hiding in a bush beside them.

 

[enfield]

We used to do ruck and webbing marches through Granville Island in Vancouver, with weapons, radios, etc. Don't think that went over well, we don't seem to do that anymore, although the ruck marches and runs around False Creek were quite nice.

Even in Halifax, doing PT around the Commons or Citadel Hill (no, not at night!), we had a fair number of jackass comments from bystanders. And I have encountered at least one establishment in Vancouver that did not allow soldiers in uniform in on Rememberance Day, too much trouble in previous years, they claimed. It would be nice if we behaved ourselves on the few occassions the public saw us...
In Edmonton the military had an extremely positive reaction, but thats a unique town, I think. a pe

While the public could do a lot to understand us better, I feel that we could do a lot to imprive our appearance to the public as well, both at a personal level (appearing neat, fit, and proffessional) and a macro level (a better media relations effort, a decent recruiting campaign, etc). To some degree the problems we have are of our own creation, although nothing excuses something so dumb as "babykiller!" or "off to die in Iraq, eh?"

 

[Danjanou]

" Army Guy eh? Where's your tank?" I replied "Parked on your car"
How do you guys think of such good comebacks?  

Years of practice Alex, years of practice. 8)

Like Pbi and some others have said it has gotten better, guys beleive it or not. In the 1970-80s in Vancouver and in the early 1990's in Toronto I got more than my fair share of "babykiller" cracks and just plain puzzled looks.

Funny only place (aside from Germany) where I served that I was almost universally treated well was Nfld. The people on the Rock do understand, aside from the resident granolla brigade at MUN of course.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Years of practice Alex, years of practice. 8)

Like Pbi and some others have said it has gotten better, guys beleive it or not. In the 1970-80s in Vancouver and in the early 1990's in Toronto I got more than my fair share of "babykiller" cracks and just plain puzzled looks.

Funny only place (aside from Germany) where I served that I was almost universally treated well was Nfld. The people on the Rock do understand, aside from the resident granolla brigade at MUN of course.

We have tons of Newfoundlander women out here in health care - and all of them know what happened on 1 July 1916.

 

[pbi]

We used to do training in the Don Valley, High Park and that park across from Fort York with webbing and rifles. I always wondered what went through the minds of picnicing civillians who looked up from their ham and cheese on bagel to see a fully camouflaged soldier hiding in a bush beside them.

We did this quite a bit when I was in RRegtC (74-82). One night, practicing for the Patrol Competition, we launched a raid against a bunch of teenagers sitting around an (illegal..) bonfire in the DV. They were quite surprised as we assaulted through. Of course, today I would probably regard that as idiotic behaviour by us, but as a MCpl I thought it was quite funny. I guess in those days it was a way of "getting back" at the civvies we perceived as hating and mocking us.

Another time, the QOR were training in DV; the assault element was moving along the valley floor, while the fire support base was in overwatch at the top of the cliff edge. A Toronto cop appeared and said words to the effect "Ha-ha: I've got you guys covered. I've been watching you from my cruiser that I have cunningly concealed. You guys would be dead!"

"Really?" replied the Assault Group Commander: "Look up on the ridgeline. You would be the dead one"

Cheers.

 

[Kevin_B]

I'm curious, what happened on July 1 1916?

 

[Cloud Cover]

Victoria is a much different town now in it's approach to military personnel than it was in the 80's.   Then, it was pretty much a guaranteed insult or much worse if anyone found out that you were in the military.  

Perhaps all the foolishness and "human torpedo test runs" at the Tudor House might have something to do with that?

 

[chrisf]

Funny only place (aside from Germany) where I served that I was almost universally treated well was Nfld. The people on the Rock do understand, aside from the resident granolla brigade at MUN of course.

Mostly because pretty much everyone on the island has at least one relative in the military...

And regarding the granola's of MUN, they're mostly confined to the MUSE (Student newspaper) office.

 

[chrisf]

I'm curious, what happened on July 1 1916?

The Royal Newfoundland Regiment was slaughtered after going over the top at Beaumont Hamel.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The Royal Newfoundland Regiment was slaughtered after going over the top at Beaumont Hamel.

Well, they weren't Royal until later in the war.

But that is about the gist of it.

To expand - 1 July 1916 was the first day of "the July drive" - what later became known as the Battle of the Somme.  The battle lasted til November, but the first day set the record for most casualties in a single day.  The British Army lost 20,000 killed and 40,000 wounded in the space of 24 hours.  Kind of like the entire Canadian Armed Forces jumping off and getting shot in a single day.

The Newfoundland Regiment had it especially bad; the front line trenches were so choked with dead, they couldn't move up to the start line so they had to go over the top from behind their front line trenches.  800 men left their trenches, and within 15 minutes or so over 700 of them were hit.  None made it beyond the friendly barbed wire.

Much of the first day of the Somme was like that, though there were some pretty remarkable successes that day, also.  By the time the battle ended four months or so later, hundreds of thousands on both sides had been killed, maimed, crippled or otherwise scarred.

If you meet someone who says they're from Newfoundland, but can't tell you what Beaumont Hamel is - they're lying.

Some feel tiny Newfoundland never recovered.  While they sent artillerymen over in World War Two, never again have they sent a formed unit of infantry out on operations.

They had also suffered at Gallipoli IIRC - Newfoundland wasn't part of Canada until 1949 so they served as part of the British Army in both world wars.