I am a CAF member & I want better pay and benefits (a merged thread)

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Don't just scoff "That's preposterous! the current regs clearly state blah blah blah" I'm not arguing current regs, I'm asking where the line in the future will be drawn, and if you disagree with me that the justification for taxing free parking could be used to justify charging for free PT, explain why it couldn't happen.

Of course it could..............depends on the Govt. of the day, and it could be applied to any work place with a gym. [my civilian employer supplies a very nice gym for me]    Are you trying to say the military should be more special then others?

 

[c_canuk]

Of course it could..............depends on the Govt. of the day, and it could be applied to any work place with a gym. [my civilian employer supplies a very nice gym for me]    Are you trying to say the military should be more special then others?

What I'm trying to say is that every time they chip away at what we have access to, that are not subject to fees and taxes, while neglecting to address differences in the market rate for skilled labour in the communities we work in; they are effectively cutting our pay.

I feel that it is discourteous to serving members to not address market rates of pay while increasing the fees and taxes they pay because of market rates. If they did address discrepancies in market rates of pay vs market rates of benefits; the whole thing becomes a counterproductive rob Peter to pay Paul situation.

Since we do not have the luxury of collective bargaining and do not have access to market rates of pay, some safety nets, rights, and privileges that the average Canadian does; I feel that we should have special considerations in regards to what is considered a taxable benefit.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Since we do not have the luxury of collective bargaining and do not have access to market rates of pay, some safety nets, rights, and privileges that the average Canadian does; I feel that we should have special considerations in regards to what is considered a taxable benefit.

I says "Pardon"??  You folks have it made.............someone else does your bargaining, and possible striking, for you.
The real world is going to slap some people silly some day when they pull pole.......

 

[Edward Campbell]

I says "Pardon"??  You folks have it made.............someone else does your bargaining, and possible striking, for you.
The real world is going to slap some people silly some day when they pull pole.......

:goodpost:

Military remuneration is benchmarked against salaries and benefits in the public service. Public service unions do the bargaining, and striking, and CF wages keep up ... it's been that way since the late 1960s.

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With specific regard to gym memberships. This information is many, many years old so take it for what it's worth ... many years ago my directorate was collocated with another government department and the NDHQ AU  told us that our closest gymnasium/fitness centre was ____ and issued memberships to military members. This was questioned by our civil department colleagues and it was explained that military members had a requirement (condition of service) to pass an annual PT test so the government had a concomitant obligation to provide access to fitness facilities. I don 't know if that argument is still valid, in was 25ish years ago.

 

[The_Falcon]

:goodpost:

Military remuneration is benchmarked against salaries and benefits in the public service. Public service unions do the bargaining, and striking, and CF wages keep up ... it's been that way since the late 1960s.

----------

With specific regard to gym memberships. This information is many, many years old so take it for what it's worth ... many years ago my directorate was collocated with another government department and the NDHQ AU  told us that our closest gymnasium/fitness centre was ____ and issued memberships to military members. This was questioned by our civil department colleagues and it was explained that military members had a requirement (condition of service) to pass an annual PT test so the government had a concomitant obligation to provide access to fitness facilities. I don 't know if that argument is still valid, in was 25ish years ago.

As to the gym provision due to employment requirements, I can see it can be a valid argument and there are several examples in the civilian world where this also happens.  Nuclear Plant Security Teams, many firehalls, some police services, particularly for their SWAT/ERT folks.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

:goodpost:

Military remuneration is benchmarked against salaries and benefits in the public service. Public service unions do the bargaining, and striking, and CF wages keep up ... it's been that way since the late 1960s.

----------

With specific regard to gym memberships. This information is many, many years old so take it for what it's worth ... many years ago my directorate was collocated with another government department and the NDHQ AU  told us that our closest gymnasium/fitness centre was ____ and issued memberships to military members. This was questioned by our civil department colleagues and it was explained that military members had a requirement (condition of service) to pass an annual PT test so the government had a concomitant obligation to provide access to fitness facilities. I don 't know if that argument is still valid, in was 25ish years ago.

When I was in Ottawa we had a gym in Tunney's Pasture. Given there was no unit PT program and we were among what seemed to be the 25% of military in Ottawa that had to pass a PT test, we had access to a gym. Fair enough. DND employees though were also given access to the gym. They have no job requirement for it.

As far as military ought to claim gym membership if the same is said for parking, I can attest to the fact that probably half the military in Ottawa wouldn't even know where the gym was, let alone could make a taxable claim to actually using it.

 

[c_canuk]

I says "Pardon"??  You folks have it made.............someone else does your bargaining, and possible striking, for you.
The real world is going to slap some people silly some day when they pull pole.......

Are civil servants subject to unlimited liability? Is their pay is based off our scales or are they paid market rates? Will they strike to have our PLD corrected or get us paid market rates? Will they strike to fix the disability pension fiasco? Got it made, indeed.

Since I have worked proffesionally for several years, in my current trade, in the real world prior to enlisting; I'm not worried about the real world when I get out. Some people who've become instituionalized are going to have a tough time in the real world though.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Are civil servants subject to unlimited liability? Is their pay is based off our scales or are they paid market rates? Will they strike to have our PLD corrected or get us paid market rates? Will they strike to fix the disability pension fiasco? Got it made, indeed.

Since I have worked proffesionally for several years, in my current trade, in the real world prior to enlisting; I'm not worried about the real world when I get out. Some people who've become instituionalized are going to have a tough time in the real world though.

I have no more tears to add to that.....

 

[PuckChaser]

You folks have it made.............someone else does your bargaining, and possible striking, for you.

Public Service unions do absolutely 0 bargaining or striking that helps CAF members. c_canuk hit the nail on the head.

With your attitude we should all be so thankful and throw fists full of dollars that we don't have at PSAC and the labour movement for helping us rich soldiers get so rich. Seriously get a clue, dude.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Damn,....I wasted all my tears on the last post.....

 

[George Wallace]

Public Service unions do absolutely 0 bargaining or striking that helps CAF members. c_canuk hit the nail on the head.

With your attitude we should all be so thankful and throw fists full of dollars that we don't have at PSAC and the labour movement for helping us rich soldiers get so rich. Seriously get a clue, dude.

I say.....WHAT?

I think you had better take a much closer look at what you are talking about. 

 

[Shamrock]

Are civil servants subject to unlimited liability? Is their pay is based off our scales or are they paid market rates? Will they strike to have our PLD corrected or get us paid market rates? Will they strike to fix the disability pension fiasco? Got it made, indeed.

Since I have worked proffesionally for several years, in my current trade, in the real world prior to enlisting; I'm not worried about the real world when I get out. Some people who've become instituionalized are going to have a tough time in the real world though.

May I recommend you take a moment to read about Military Factor.  I'm not sure which classification NCM and Officers are benchmarked against; however, because of military factor, we automatically make more than our civilian counterparts who aren't entitled to PLD and environmental allowances.  For example, a CF member receives higher compensation than a DND employee - compare $59,832 for a Cpl against $48,777 for a CR04.  It's quite frequent CR04 and Cpl Clerks work together in the same OR.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But the CRs never have to deploy, dig holes, fire weapons, do sentry, or any other military duty.  Apples and bowling balls. 

 

[Tibbson]

May I recommend you take a moment to read about Military Factor.  I'm not sure which classification NCM and Officers are benchmarked against; however, because of military factor, we automatically make more than our civilian counterparts who aren't entitled to PLD and environmental allowances.  For example, a CF member receives higher compensation than a DND employee - compare $59,832 for a Cpl against $48,777 for a CR04.  It's quite frequent CR04 and Cpl Clerks work together in the same OR.

Your comparison doesnt hold water very long.  An MP WO or MWO posted as the NCO IC at his/her base makes @ $83,000 a year.  In many cases they dont get PLD or anyof the environmental allowances you speak of too depending upon posting.  His/Her civilian counterpart would be an RCMP Sgt or SSgt making $90,000 to $103,000 a year.  Similar, if not better, benefits too.  (While they did a longer tour in Afghanistan they also did get 3 LTAs during their 9-12 month roto.

Many other trades have the same gap with their civilian equivalents

 

[dapaterson]

But the CRs never have to deploy, dig holes, fire weapons, do sentry, or any other military duty.  Apples and bowling balls. 

And the CRs have 3 weeks of leave for 8 years, and don't hit 5 weeks until 18 years of service.  The clerks have to work over Christmas, and don't get 2 special and 2 short as extras.  If deployed, the clerks get risk & hardship allowances.  The clerks can draw an unreduced pension immediately after 25 years of service.

Apples and bowling balls, indeed...

 

[Shamrock]

Your comparison doesnt hold water very long.  An MP WO or MWO posted as the NCO IC at his/her base makes @ $83,000 a year.  In many cases they dont get PLD or anyof the environmental allowances you speak of too depending upon posting.  His/Her civilian counterpart would be an RCMP Sgt or SSgt making $90,000 to $103,000 a year.  Similar, if not better, benefits too.  (While they did a longer tour in Afghanistan they also did get 3 LTAs during their 9-12 month roto.

Many other trades have the same gap with their civilian equivalents

At Captain 10, a pilot will earn $112,000 a year.  That same individual would earn $150,000 to $200,000 from Air Canada.  This, of course, isn't relevant as the CF's pay is baselined off federal employee classifications and not whatever convenient examples we can find.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

May I recommend you take a moment to read about Military Factor.  I'm not sure which classification NCM and Officers are benchmarked against; however, because of military factor, we automatically make more than our civilian counterparts who aren't entitled to PLD and environmental allowances.  For example, a CF member receives higher compensation than a DND employee - compare $59,832 for a Cpl against $48,777 for a CR04.  It's quite frequent CR04 and Cpl Clerks work together in the same OR.

It depends on where you work. I have Ptes and Cpls as ACISS-IST doing the same job (and more if you include their radio, satellite and line tasks) as CS-01 and CS-02 personnel. A step 1 CS-01 gets paid $53k while a step 8 CS-02 gets paid $81k. Add on top of that, after hours upgrades and maintainance is overtime for the CS personnel but is free labor for the military. I have had these people working side by side doing weekend upgrades, one gets overtime the other doesn't.

The same goes for other specialities. Yes, admin and clerks are paid more than CR counterparts, but in the IT world, military are paid less for more work.

 

[Shamrock]

It depends on where you work. I have Ptes and Cpls as ACISS-IST doing the same job (and more if you include their radio, satellite and line tasks) as CS-01 and CS-02 personnel. A step 1 CS-01 gets paid $53k while a step 8 CS-02 gets paid $81k. Add on top of that, after hours upgrades and maintainance is overtime for the CS personnel but is free labor for the military. I have had these people working side by side doing weekend upgrades, one gets overtime the other doesn't.

The same goes for other specialities. Yes, admin and clerks are paid more than CR counterparts, but in the IT world, military are paid less for more work.

I realize this is becoming increasingly tangential, but I'm genuinely curious - is a CS01 equivalent to a Cpl in terms of responsibility?  Does a CS01 require any special education?  Who provides it?

 

[Remius]

CS occupational group requires a bachelors degree in computer science but is often waived given the lack of people with that degree.  Many have 3 year college programs or IT related courses that are considered equivalent or will be accepted if they have a combination of training , experience and education.

Modified:  apologies, it is a min 2 year recognised program from recognised Canadian Institition.  Some people have been grandfathered who don't have that and some people can get waivers for experience and training that would be equivalent. 

 

[George Wallace]

CS occupational group requires a bachelors degree in computer science but is often waived given the lack of people with that degree.  Many have 3 year college programs or IT related courses that are considered equivalent or will be accepted if they have a combination of training , experience and education.

Modified:  apologies, it is a min 2 year recognised program from recognised Canadian Institition.  Some people have been grandfathered who don't have that and some people can get waivers for experience and training that would be equivalent.

Besides the College programs, there was a requirement to be a Microsoft Certified Professional.