How environmentalists destroyed California’s forests

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I'm starting to think he/she only leans toward trying to get a reaction .....

Any reaction...

 

[Donald H]

Hmmmm....... that's interesting. You quoted a few days ago that:

So are you cautiously leaning towards fascism?

I weigh in my mind whether Trump or Biden would be the best choice for Canada and for world peace Weinie. And because of Trump's close attachment to Putin, for whatever reason, I cautiously lean toward Trump. And add to that my mind is pretty well made up now that Trump will be the best choice on cooperation with China too. Republicans have tradionally been better on free and fair trade than the Democrats, who favour protecting their working people. It's simply a matter or rightist priorities as compared to leftist priorities. Wouldn't you agree?

As to Trump bringing  fascism to America, I think that's his plan. Months ago I thought this on the basis of his policies on immigrants coming to America alone. (Ask me why on the border wall and how he appealed to the lowest of his base) What Trump does to his country on the domestic political scene is of little interest to me when asked to choose my political priorities. The world has been making preparations for the last two years at least to be able to weather the storm that Trump can  bring on.

Now months later I see a situation in which Trump has been able to pretty much guarantee that America won't be able to pull off a free and fair democratic election. That same fear is now being voiced by thousands of American scholars and as many Republicans  with long respected opinions. David Brooks just tonight on the news for example

:cheers:

 

[Walt]

(Ask me why on the border wall and how he appealed to the lowest of his base)
:cheers:

You offered the opportunity. I'm asking "why?" regarding your statement about the border wall. Take care.

 

[Donald H]

You offered the opportunity. I'm asking "why?" regarding your statement about the border wall. Take care.

Get back to me on a thread that's right for the topic Walt. I'll be happy to answer some of your questions if I perceive them to be asked in good faith.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Trump isn't China's best hope; Biden is China's best hope.  Trump is demonstrably hostile towards on matters of trade.  And the Democrats are not, and have not been for some time, the party of the working man.  Anyone following US politics for the past few months should be aware of all the anxious navel-gazing Democrats are doing over their shift from "party of the working man" to "party of the people doing really well in America".  Again, false premises produce indeterminate conclusions.

Trump is not bringing fascism to America.  He obviously can't make the press say what he wants (they just push back harder), whereas, for example, the Chinese government can.  He obviously can't tell big companies to do what he wants (eg. social media censorship), whereas, for example, the Chinese government can.  He doesn't have a tame judiciary; if anything, the judges recommended to him that he chooses from will be more inclined to support civil rights.  Contrarily, in places like China, a compliant judiciary does what it's told.  The military in America has manifestly and publicly averred that it isn't going to do the president's domestic bidding, but in a country like China, the military does so.  The US isn't holding any Canadians hostage illegitimately to apply pressure, but China is.  If you're worried about creeping or actual fascism, worry about China.

 

[Donald H]

Trump isn't China's best hope; Biden is China's best hope.  Trump is demonstrably hostile towards on matters of trade.  And the Democrats are not, and have not been for some time, the party of the working man.  Anyone following US politics for the past few months should be aware of all the anxious navel-gazing Democrats are doing over their shift from "party of the working man" to "party of the people doing really well in America".  Again, false premises produce indeterminate conclusions.

I hear you on Biden being China's best hope but I still disagree and here's why. I consider Trump's positions on China right now as only being voiced for the purpose of popular politics. Trump has used Immigrants from America's south as a reason why the American people are suffering under a system of greedy capitalism. That's not the problem, the problem is not immigrants coming in to take jobs that Americans should or could be doing. America has thrown out it's longstanding ideals of being the refuge of the poor and downtrodden, etc., under Trump.

And I see no difference in what Trump is doing with his positions on China. In my opinion, all of that will change if Trump is elected. It's just not consistent with his nature of being a businessman who supports big business first and last. It's absolutely essential that Trump take a hardline position against China and the Chinese people, for the benefit of his loyal followers.

It's a huge topic to explore and I will only elaborate further if I'm invited to do so.

Trump is not bringing fascism to America.
[/quote]

Fascism doesn't happen overnight. I have little more to say about it now. If it becomes impossible for America to conduct a fair and democratic election than I will be taking that as proof of my suspicions.

And if they do indeed succeed with a fair election then I'll be faced with being completely wrong and I won't run from my responsibility to eat crow.

And now fwiw, I'm going to keep out of conversations that don't concern me and in which I can be accused of trolling for a response. I have to take the position that I'm going to be the one who is trolled.

:cheers:

 

[Underway]

So back to the original thread....

Fire ecology was little understood until recently (last 15 years).  To blame environmentalists is terribly myopic.  There are plenty of places where prescribed burns are now happening and fire is managed, but that is a relatively new occurrence.  The reason California is burning for a number of reasons.  The forests are drying out due to climate change and the massive removal of wetlands/control of water flow to make way for people and agriculture is having an effect as well.  Human causes for starting the fires are common.  Misunderstanding of fire ecology didn't allow for burns to happen naturally, or there were people who built houses in the way and didn't want their property destroyed.

Lets also not forget that California is massive and oriented north south.  The north is pacific rainforest and snow capped mountains and the south is arid.  All of California isn't burning.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Much of California's problem stems from regulations which promote conditions for fire and militate against good forest management practices.  The climate is going to do whatever it wants over the short term and is just a donkey for people to beat in pursuit of other political agendas; over the short term, the problem must either be solved politically or it will not be solved.