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High school education is obsolete

I grew up in a small town in northern Alberta and we don't have proms. We have high school grad that takes place on a Saturday, beginning with the ceremony then ending with a dinner. My boyfriend in highschool lived 45mins away so we attended different high schools. So last year when it came time for grad, it ended up that his grad was Friday and mine was Saturday. Unfortunately this doesn't leave any time to get the dress cleaned, so I ended up having to buy 2 dresses. But, I am not really a "girly girl" so I was smart and got one decent priced nice dress for my grad, and another cheap plain (still nice) dress for his. I am so glad now that I didn't spend like $500 like all my friends did. Now when I look back on grad, I still feel like it was a waste of money. I should have spent like $100 on one dress and made due. O-well, live & learn. I am scared to think of what people spend on weddings if they break the bank on a high school prom. ::)
 
DJ said:
I'm not familiar with the BSc program but BA students DO have similar requirements to take a minimum number of science credits to graduate.   While some try to get the most arts-like science courses, I'm sure that not every science student is taking Shakespeare.   And I was under the impression that science creds were on par cost-wise with arts.   It's engineering, commerce, pharmacy and other professional programs that have the differential tuition.   I will admit though, the textbook situation is not in your favour.  

I think the major issue betwen BA vs BSc boils down to the lab situation.  Most science courses come complete with the additional 4-hour lab component.  If you compare the schedule of a BA student taking 6 classroom courses with a BSc student taking 6...the BSc probably has 3 or 4 lab blocks to work into each week.
 
I dropped out in my second year of Grade Twelve. I never got that high school diploma.
A few years later I went to the BPSO to see about getting a high school diploma. I was told to do university courses as I had qualified as a mature student. "Get one year done" she said" all anyone looks at is your last year of completed schooling."

If anything I do believe that the current education system should be revamped to become more current with todays world.
 
I beg to differ (As I am graduating tomorrow) but I remember a quote that said (Not exact)

"Its not important wether we remember what *the square root of 386 is or what a Pronoun or verb is*
Its the fact that you studied and worked and got the job done." (unless its info required in your trade)

because you have studied hard through grade school and passed Grade 12, you already know how to study, and work hard, and can continue to work hard throughout the rest of your life, be it a job or higher education.

Graduation Is an important right of passage.

My 2 Cents
- Shawn
 
Graduation Is an important right of passage.

Very true.  At least in high school you dont spend a min. of $20,000 (BA) to get that piece of paper.  I'm becoming a very very bitter 4th year because now I'm seeing how hard it is to find a job in my field.

I'm doing a Hons. BA however, since my major (geography) has science courses (the geology part), I've been taking science courses all the way through my 4 years.  I'm planning on attaching transcipts to potential employers.

Also, some programs can get away with going the 'easy' route. At McMaster the BA students can do a 3-year or 4yr (Honours) program.  The 3rd year program IS A JOKE.  Technically I have my BA already, and I feel like I have not done enough yet. 

In regards to the science kids taking arts, and the arts taking science, at McMaster Social Science kids take 2 humanities half courses, and vice versa.  Just by glancing at the science program, they do not have to take any arts courses.  HOWEVER, most do take a music/culture studies/psych course.  But again, this varies by school
 
    I went to prom last year and thought it was awsome.  I went to my old schools prom, where I was for three years and then I spent my grade 12 and 13 at the other school.  So maybe it is different because I never see most of the people I'm not sure.  I rented a tux, bought some er expensive water, held after prom at my place, bought my ticket and 10 of us went in a limo.  Sure it cost me a bit (limo wasn't needed but it is a one time thing)  It was costly but i thought it was worth it.  The only thing i hated was

A. They made me a leave a little early and i was still last to show up at my own party, and
B. The lineup to get our picture taken was pretty annoying since it was long. 

  The dinner and dance were both great, I wouldn't do it again as many kids didn't understand this year becuase at school i was registered as a grade 12 again.  They really didn't think about it very hard, but the one time I did go was awsome and I was very glad I went.

                J.G. 
 
I agree with nawk.  Even with Bachelor degrees, they don't necessarily land you the high-paying jobs.  I got 2 Bachelor degrees, and all I could get when I joined the army was to come in as a private. 
 
DJ said:
Whoa.   I just had to comment.   Where are you going with this?   Is this about the English requirement?   One, or maybe two, English courses aren't that much of a burden.   Everybody has to know how to communicate, (and many people, uni grads and non uni grads, don't know how to do this).   I'm not familiar with the BSc program but BA students DO have similar requirements to take a minimum number of science credits to graduate.   While some try to get the most arts-like science courses, I'm sure that not every science student is taking Shakespeare.   And I was under the impression that science creds were on par cost-wise with arts.   It's engineering, commerce, pharmacy and other professional programs that have the differential tuition.   I will admit though, the textbook situation is not in your favour.  
DJ
    Forget the English requirement, take a look at the number of arts credits required for a BSc, and those have to be in each of the four year levels, so we are forced to pay for all this lovely arts fluff while striving to schedule our core and elective sciences in the required order, it ends up taking about an extra year to get the BSc due to the need to pack in those arts courses, and it must be a full year because you cannot get into your fourth year core courses, unless you are a "full time" student in that faculty.  A nice little shakedown that causes BSc students to pay for more courses than would be required to graduate, just to keep their place in the faculty due to wasting time on fourth year arts courses, rather than core requriements.  Arts and science courses sure cost the same, its just the degrees that have different price tag.  Still bitter. I did enjoy the history minor, and philosophy courses I too, but not enough to offset the extra-large student loans that went along with them.
 
Another reason why I don't intend on going to proms, bloody beauty competition...

I'd say prom's more than that...it's a popularity contest too ::)
 
Kilo Mike said:
I'd say prom's more than that...it's a popularity contest too ::)

So it's a contest of social status and beauty.. of which I have neither..  :(
 
Highschool graduation is a load of bullshit.  I can get the same jobs I have now without it, but the problem is everyones wanting to have someone who's graduated yet there are people who've dropped out that's done the same.  They just don't want the liability of some retard on their hands.

But even so, those thinking only needing highschool as a gateway to a good life are kiidding themselves.  If you wanna better yourself without working your hands to the bones in Trade labour than you're looking at years and years of study in a college or university.  I would know, trying to become a reservist while I do full-time Floor Installing is hell.  But a fitting job to prepair me for what lies ahead (Heavy lifting, hard labour, asshole of a father breathing down my neck bitching me out every moment... ahh the high life haha).

Someone wanting to join the military, get a job as a roofer or something construction to get a feel of some good ol hands burned to the bone labour.

Otherwords, yes highschool education is obsolete.  They get you working on your future career WAY to late (Grade 10-11, should be 8!).  And it's too generalized.  We'd have more brighter people working specific fields if they had a headstart at a young age.

But thats what I think, it's late so my thoughts might be a little gargled.

-Jason
 
Ahh my favortie point of education. What is education and knowledge. Well it is the information one can attain in a subject that one can may or shall use in their life. Who determines what education is, right now our cash hungry Universities and goverment. I have been working in one form or another since i was 12 years old. I never had alot of money nor do i now. I have a lot of education though not the type that one would consider to be a traditional one. For example a BA or an MD, or what ever else a person whom has spend a great deal of money on to say they have accomplsihed something.  I have expierance and lots of it in different fields of work and facits of life. I have plumbed, fixed cars, washed cars, fixed airplanes, delivered papers, worked washing dishes (my worse one day job ever), worked for the Army and now the Airforce. What has that given me now. Well a stable and secure job to which I like.( i may not like the people though) I make a modest $25 an hour and have been up and downfrom $9 to $50. Some jobs are not worth your happiness and what, and where you want to be. Alot of people get caught up in the further education (directly responds to university and college) and look down upon those whom choose another route. Well i can say i have met some of the smartest peopel ever and their education has been grade 8. Yet where and how they live gave them a much more valid and usefull education. they were hunters and forestry workers up north. their abiltity to tell you about animal population, or tree health or both was second to none. They never had a diploma or a BA, or any of that other pieces of paper that deems you to be smarter then some one eles and a more dedicated or responsible, smarter person. They had real life expierance. To which their very survival depended on at times. I come from a line of Fishermen whom to most folks are very simple and uneducated, yet what they can tell you about the fisherie and how it has declined would amaze even the highest schooler. due to their lack of a piece of paper saying they are smart their thougths and expierance is usualy ignored.  The military is moving into a new genration of operations, they are trying to make our forces smarter, and offering incentives to members for education and such.  They have been toying with the thought of not only officers having a degree but now SNR NCO's also. Why is that, does it make you smarter or more capable. I dont know I dont hold a BA or other certificate for such. I do knwo that an education of today is very narrow minded approach to our society. Most students have no clue where they are to go after school, society tries to push them into Universties and such. All through out high school they enforce upon you that a degree is everything, and to be prosperous you should have one. How true this is I dont know. Out of the people i use to hang out with most of them went to universitie and now work logging and construction.  Their $40 000 in debt has made them a more dedicated worker for the fact that they make the same wage as every one else does except they now have to an additional $40 000 off. I am not knocking higehr education by attending other insatitutions, but we as a society have graduated so far to the left that we think and really do beleive that we need a BA,  MD or other title in order to do a fine job and get a good paying job. The bottom  line is i am happy as are millions of Canadians with our meager $15 to 30 an hour jobs living where we are, doing the hard manual physical labour whom so many look down upon with such disaproval. I am proud to say i am a average guy with an average wage whom is very happy with my life,. Desppite my lack of formal education.  If you have kids whom are in their last few years of school, do one thing and that is make them get a job working at a labour intenvise job, this can range from MC D's, construction. automovtive etc. Have them realize and respect those whom build your houses, fix your cars, sell your food, and also protect your country.  Do not look down upon those whom do not have initials before or after their name. use them and treat them with the respect they deserve with out them you would have little to nothing to do.
 
Highschool, what did I learn there?  Well for starters it is full of parasites and leaches, and backstabbing a-holes.  Seriously though, I think the way things are now wrt preparing students for life beyond highschool needs to be changed.  At my old highschool (RH King Academy, don't be fooled by the name, it is a public school)  If you were not interested in university they (the teachers, guidance etc.) had no time for you.  I am not kidding most of the non-university prep courses (what we used to call, general level), were out of control.  The "teachers" for these course would not even bother trying to teach.  Sure they would have people from colleges come in and do talks, but when i got into grade 12 and OAC all the teachers talked about was university this and university that (although that was to be expected of OAC courses).  Asking about colleges and *gasp* trades, and you would get the deer in the headlights look, or your better than that kind of comment.

Lexi said:
They do - the OYAP program. (Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program.) Basically it takes grade 11 students and puts them head-first into a tradework environment where they're taught everything they need to know. The options go from Auto Mechanic to Pastry Chef.   :)
.

But the thing is while schools must offer/allow it if asked by a student, I am sure there are a lot schools who just don't advertise OYAP to their student bodies.  I know I had a hell of time trying to find out how to get into the co-op program at my school, some teachers didn't know there was one.

I also agree with earlier statements that people are leaving Highschool unprepared for uni/college.  While I have not been to university I have been to  two colleges (Humber and Centennial for police foundations), and it is just shocking at how illiterate and "uneducated" some of the students are in my program.  Especially at Centennial.  The program there is fairly new, and while the instructors have experience teaching at Alymer or CO Bick (Police Colleges), they are new to teaching in college environment.  Which means they practically hand us the answers to exams, or make the exams so easy, you have to question someones intelligence if they fail.  And people do FAIL.  Why?  That a very good question, some of the responsibility rests with those students.  But I would say a good portion lies squarely on ttheirteachers in highschool.

As for graduation ceremonies, most schools in Scarborough (including my own) hold a commencement ceremony in the fall.  You have to come back from where ever you went off to (if that is you really want to), there are no gowns or caps or crap like that though.
 
Well you have to remember, the majority of the teachers all have university educations, and as such most won't have any experience with trade programmes or even community colleges, for that matter.

I went to King as well and I found the guidance department to be completely useless.  Of course I never really went to them for guidance on post secondary as I had already made up my mind in grade 12 which university I wanted to go to (and thankfully it was the right choice). 

As for people being unprepared for post-secondary, I couldn't agree more.  During my first year in university, i somehow got designated my res sections resident editor.  At least half of the people I lived with didn't know how to write an essay and there were a select few who had difficulties writing full sentences.  It was quite frightening.  Though not as frightening as acting as a peer reviewer in one of my 300 level classes this past year.  I had to read this girl's essay and my god, it was horrible.  Sentence fragments all over the place, sentences that were completely out of place and not to mention the basic spelling and grammar errors.  It was almost enough to make me cry. 
I honestly don't know how most of these people got out of high school without knowing how to write.  Well i have ideas...

In short, High school and public education system needs to be totally revamped, sadly i honestly can't think of a good solution.  I should ask some of my friends who are in education. 

 
You were probably at King the same time as me, judging by your age.
 
probably the same grade (I assume you're turning 23 this year). 

We probably met once or twice.  Of course I was totally different back then.  I was your stereotypical awkward, geeky and completely uncomfortable high school student - god I hated it!

 
no you were a year ahead, but I had some friends in the level, we usually hung out in B and 1/2 near the autoshop.
 
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