HELP!! GI Alice or 64 Pattern Ruck?

[TrustNoOne]

Can someone tell me which frame is better?

And does anyone know if GI Alice Frames come in different sizes

 

[Armymedic]

There is a new question, and possibly a good one too...

I haven't put a Alice pack frame under the stress I had a 64 frame. But I found I can and have carried more weight with the 64 frame. The Alice pack I have sits a bit far back, giving  space between the pack and my back, pushing the weight away from my body, nor do the straps fit as nice.

I believe the construction of the Alice is stronger as it does not have rivets punched thru the tubing like the 64. It is those 2 points mid frame which caused the 64 frames to break most often.

 

[Recce_Boy]

Is it true ALICE frames are not allowed overseas?

 

[Red 6]

The ALICE rucksack frame is one size fits all, whether you like it or not. In a large ruck, you can jam about anything you would need in terms of individual gear, ammo and unit equipment. We weighed our rucks at JRTC in 98 and the average in my platoon was about 80 lbs.

 

[DropZone]

TrustNoOne,

This subject has been discussed in great detail. Just use the search function. But I'll give you the readers digest version:

The 64 was not originally Canadian but in fact American. The Americans seeing short comings in reliability as early as 65 began to develop the ALICE frame in 67. The ALICE frame was officially the replacement frame for the Americans in the early 70's.

The design mandate was the ALICE had to fit the prior textile accessories which why there is such great interchangeably between the two systems. The 64 pack and the ALICE pack are essentially "father and son".

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon

 

[TrustNoOne]

Still doesn't answer the question of which frame is better.  Only one testimonal stating the 64 pattern frame is better.  Maybe I should go with that.

 

[Armymedic]

if you have to buy it yourself...no. Go with the Alice frame. More of them out there and they are cheap.

 

[DropZone]

TrustNoOne

The 64 and the ALICE are the same dimensionally in the pickup mounting points. The ALICE is stronger. The ALICE has a deeper curve in the waist belt mounting area which should reduce pressure points on the lower back.

Buy the ALICE frame.

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon

 

[TrustNoOne]

Having both the frames now, I can state that the 64 pattern ruck sack is by far the best choice.  The gap between the ALICE frame and your back is ridiculous.  I gap will try to pull you backwards on heavy loads and it would give you a biomechanical DISadvantage.  Therefore you would have to spend more energy fighting to keep yourself upright as the load is pulling you back.  Everything needs to be snug.  I know all about the importance of loading on the spine.  Trust me.

Who ever designed the ALICE frame was an idiot.  I recommend 64 pattern ruck to all small framed individuals. 

 

[paracowboy]

sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier, dude. I would have backed up armymedic in that the 64 pattern frame is by far the better of the two.

 

[Jay4th]

Paracowboy, a big +1.  I bought my "64" complete for $45 cdn when I was twelve. I will be thirty next month , have used it on five tours and God knows how many ex'es and I am still using the original rubber bag of 1973 manufacture.  (a few recent gun tape patches)

 

[KevinB]

Dont they still issue the 64's 



*Kifaru EMR - THE BEST ruck bar none

 

[BernDawg]

Don't know if they are issued to anyone any more but I do know that I get some really wierd looks in the AF (on ex I am an engineer after all) when I don my 64 pattern frame C/W 84 pattern bag and straps.  The old man-pack TOW belt makes a good kidney belt too.  So yes, I too am a fan of the 64 pattern frame.

 

[TrustNoOne]

64 is a rare find.  I was lucky and got it for free.  It's worth millions.  I wished I had asked earlier for the frame rather than buying a piece of junk off of ebay.  Never again!!

Just a tip: if you are in dire need of getting a 64 ruck, go to the MIR and get a chit for it.

 

[KevinB]

They are (64's) still issued to the jump line serial positions -- and I have never heard one being asked for back if you go off jump status.

 

[2 Cdo]

They are (64's) still issued to the jump line serial positions -- and I have never heard one being asked for back if you go off jump status.

Well, I'll tell you of at least one! I have a young RCR troop working for me in Kingston who on leaving 3 RCR had to return his 64 pattern bag and frame complete.

 

[paracowboy]

Well, I'll tell you of at least one! I have a young RCR troop working for me in Kingston who on leaving 3 RCR had to return his 64 pattern bag and frame complete.

same here. You leave a Hard Para position, you turn in your frame. They're getting short in the system.

 

[KevinB]

well I still have one from Pet circa '93 - mind you the Gunner close out sale may have helped.

 

[riggermade]

I have made many a bag and sold them although the frames are hard to get but it seems the troops are as enterprising as ever and seem to find them

 

[2 Cdo]

well I still have one from Pet circa '93 - mind you the Gunner close out sale may have helped.

As I also have one courtesy of 2 Cdo, 1988!