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Helmets 2 Hardhats [Merged]

DirtyDog said:
Just about everyone I know in a skilled trade (and it's a lot) are doing very well for themselves and have done so from a young age without being saddled with any student loan debt.  some of the more forward thinking guys I know will have their homes payed off before they hit 30 and still enjoy a comfortable lifestyle with all the toys guys their age are into.

And all it takes is a little hard work and some hours that don't start at 9 and end at 5. I would say its amazing more people don't take advantage of this job boom in the skilled trades, but my generation is full of lazy, lazy people.
 
PuckChaser said:
And all it takes is a little hard work and some hours that don't start at 9 and end at 5. I would say its amazing more people don't take advantage of this job boom in the skilled trades, but my generation is full of lazy, lazy people.
Some of it may also be parents thinking "I worked with my hands, so I want better for my son/daughter so s/he doesn't have to."
 
milnews.ca said:
Some of it may also be parents thinking "I worked with my hands, so I want better for my son/daughter so s/he doesn't have to."
It doesn't help that our society constantly pushes the idea that kids MUST get a post-secondary education nowadays.  Everyone's always on me about making sure I'm puttign away money for my children's (only have one due shortly right now) college/university fund and it's funny the looks I get (usually down noses) when I reply "What if he/she doesn't need or want to go to university?".

Not that I don't budget to put a little away to help with education down the road, but this mentality that you'll be some poor destitude slob without a piece of paper to hang on the wall is ridiculous.  As is the idea of getting such a piece a paper just to get one, with no firm plan on how to utilise it.
 
DirtyDog said:
It doesn't help that our society constantly pushes the idea that kids MUST get a post-secondary education nowadays.  Everyone's always on me about making sure I'm puttign away money for my children's (only have one due shortly right now) college/university fund and it's funny the looks I get (usually down noses) when I reply "What if he/she doesn't need or want to go to university?".

Not that I don't budget to put a little away to help with education down the road, but this mentality that you'll be some poor destitude slob with a piece of paper to hang on the wall is ridiculous.  As is the idea of getting such a piece a paper just to get one, with no firm plan on how to utilise it.
VERY good point - I'd think it's good to have the $ set aside in case Jr. wants to do work needing post-secondary, but it's also good to guide Jr. into a trade if s/he has a different (but still very necessary) kind of smarts than "book" smarts.  I say that having seen my own mom (who came from Italy with no more than Grade 4 but trained as a seamstress) who could look at a picture in a magazine and build it from scratch - I've seen folks bring in pictures for bridesmaid dresses and see her do it.  Book smarts?  Not so much.  Another kind of valuable smarts?  For sure.  We need to encourage those who show this kind of smarts that you can make a good living even without a sheepskin.
 
milnews.ca said:
Some of it may also be parents thinking "I worked with my hands, so I want better for my son/daughter so s/he doesn't have to."

Until we have robots building things, there will always be people needed to be labourers. I personally see nothing wrong with an honest-days wage working with your hands, and even find it rewarding to look at a house and say "I helped build that". Our parents may have worked with their hands for a low wage but kids in my generation can gain far more using better tools in safer conditions that our forefathers ever did. They just need to want to work for it, and that's whats lacking I find.
 
milnews.ca said:
I say that having seen my own mom (who came from Italy with no more than Grade 4 but trained as a seamstress) who could look at a picture in a magazine and build it from scratch - I've seen folks bring in pictures for bridesmaid dresses and see her do it.  Book smarts?  Not so much.  Another kind of valuable smarts?  For sure.  We need to encourage those who show this kind of smarts that you can make a good living even without a sheepskin.

:goodpost:
I was in the "outside workers" union. We had machinists, carpenters, welders, electricians,,,you name it.
I got to know a lot of them over the years, and had a great deal of respect for the work they did.

I hope this "Helmet to Hardhat" program is successful, ( for those who are interested in it ). It reminds me of the scene in an old movie when a construction foreman asks, "Do you know anything about building?" The veteran says, "No, but there's one thing I do know. I know how to learn, same as I learned that job up there.":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU0d3DVcKoY
 
Construction work isn't for everyone.  If you're that army guy who puts in the minimum effort, expects things handed to you, can't comprehend working past 4:30, needs thorough and complete direction to accomplish a task and requires constant 'admin time' to go about your daily life then you better find a way to stay in the military forever.

Construction work is a daily challenge. You are building things, repairing things, conceptualizing things often without any plan, minimal plan or an unworkable plan yet there is no option other than success.  There are deadlines and they will hit you in the pocketbook if you fail.

I certainly had my challenges serving a couple decades in the army, but never at the level of running a contracting business.  I find it incredible that someone might think of this sort of work as mindless.  That attitude could only come from an over inflated belief in their own worth to society or a blissful ignorance of what sort of process may have been involved in constructing, heating, plumbing, electrifying, networking and operating the buildings they spend so much time in.  A big part of the reason we have a shortage of skilled trades is that the level of skill required has gone through the roof over the past couple dozen years. 

Do not get yourself in a knot over 'experience' and 'training'.  When I hire apprentices, i'm looking for commitment, intelligence and reliability.  One the best I ever hired had been working as a ski lift operator.  Another was a PTSD case from the PPCLI.  I used to assume that being military meant that a candidate was bringing reliability and understood the meaning of timings.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  What I have learned is that the army often leaves its soldiers in a similar 'institutionalized' state as the unfortunate older black guy from 
The Shawshank Redemption.  Years of being told exactly what to do and how to do it combined with a self-contained system of medical, dental, material and administrative support can leave a person unprepared to function in the real world.

If you are military and looking for civilian work, you need to emphasis that you are adaptable, intelligent, free-thinking, committed and can deal with your own problems on your own time.  Expect to be challenged, expect to work long hours and expect to be well compensated for it. 

I find it very gratifying when I walk into a structure I helped build and know that it will be there serving a real purpose for years to come.  If you're the sort of person that takes a great deal of pride in what you do and enjoys the sense of accomplishment that comes with a job well done, then the trades are for you.
 
greydak said:
I would rather them give vets priority for public service jobs, and I think the average CF vet is overqualified for construction jobs and it would be a step backwards for some?

Vets DO have priority for public service jobs and I can't help but wonder what makes you think that someone without the years of training and experience in a trade might possibly be 'overqualified'.  As for a 'step backwards', I suppose you'd need to define that one.  If its about the mental challenge, as a master electrician I can assure you there is plenty of that.  If its about the money, I get by just fine on 3 times my old army pay thank you very much.
If you have an aptitude for it, and lots of military retirees do, this is rewarding, challenging and well paying work that also happens to be in demand. 
 
exabedtech said:
'overqualified'........... 'step backwards',

Some have bought into the ego-boosting mentality that soldiering, while noble, is the be-all-end-all and somehow superior to anything and everything in society.

Former soldiers, of any trade, have much to offer civilian employers but it is important to remember that it is a different world out there. Unfortunate that some, out of ignorance and misguided superiority, will dismiss great opportunities.
 
exabedtech said:
Vets who have been medically released DO have priority for public service jobs

Fixed that for you...
 
Occam said:
Fixed that for you...

Thanks!  I actually tried for that program when I was released... was easier to just enter a competition just like everyone else and win it on merit.  :nod:
 
DirtyDog said:
It doesn't help that our society constantly pushes the idea that kids MUST get a post-secondary education nowadays.  Everyone's always on me about making sure I'm puttign away money for my children's (only have one due shortly right now) college/university fund and it's funny the looks I get (usually down noses) when I reply "What if he/she doesn't need or want to go to university?".

Not that I don't budget to put a little away to help with education down the road, but this mentality that you'll be some poor destitude slob without a piece of paper to hang on the wall is ridiculous.  As is the idea of getting such a piece a paper just to get one, with no firm plan on how to utilise it.

For the most part, I agree with you.  I went to university with too many people who had no idea why they were there or where they were going.  Yet, my generation was specifically told that if we didn't go to university we would be failures.  This was simply the wrong approach and we as a society are paying for it now.

However, I don't agree with your last sentence.  You have fallen into the big trap where folks equate education with training.  There is much overlap between the two, but they are not the same.  Education is about expanding one's mind and learning how to look at things from different angles, analyze situations and develop solutions or courses of action.  An education need not be specific to achieve this.  Training on the other hand, teaches one how to do something  specific.  A big part of the problem today is that universities are often seen as job training centres .  It doesn't help that they (in search of revenue) are beginning to see themselves the same way.

Education is valuable and should be pursued, but don't equate it to training and don't expect it to lead to a specific career.
 
7 Jan 12,  Rifleman 62:

On TV last year there was a program all about Mike Homes. He does a lot of work visiting schools to promote construction trades.

You may be interested in the Homes Foundation: http://makeitright.ca/Holmes_Foundation/foundation.php?page_id=76

I will write to the Foundation to see if they will partner/support this VAC program. I am sure if MH gets in on it, VAC will accept.

If anything, it will raise the profile of this Vet program. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

After writing twice, and filtering through the communications department, received the following from Mike's daughter who is a program coordinator:

This is definitely something we would be interested in learning more about and working with if there is an opportunity. We are currently reworking many of our Foundation's programs and initiatives. I will have a more in-depth look at the websites as soon as possible.

It looks like a fantastic program. Thank you for bringing this to our attention

This does not mean anything will happen.
 
recceguy said:
People need to change their mindset. For years everyone's been told that if you don't have a professional white collar job (doctor, lawyer, etc) and a university degree you were nothing and no one would hire you. That kind of thinking gutted the skilled trades.

No one, now, can find plumbers, electricians, masons, metal cutters, carpenters, cabinet makers and the list goes on.

All the above and any other 'working with your hands' trades are all viable and honourable professions that need people and support. The program should be expanded to cover all of these.

idk about that. It seems that 90% of the energy in trades is advertising how good they are. I've been trying to become an apprentice for 2 years now and it's near impossible to find someone to hire a first year apprentice. It's so frustrating that every time you try and google information about apprenticeships you find pages that are designed to advertise how good an apprenticeship trade is.

I mean the government keeps dumping money into websites and resource centers filled with social workers that make you jump through hoops for nothing. We get it, being a skilled trade is the best route, now give me a job!! I'm young, strong and willing to work anywhere, quit hiring foreign workers, quit hiring worthless hr representatives. its very frustrating, hopefully this program works because here in Toronto, I can't find anything
 
kia4ever said:
idk about that. It seems that 90% of the energy in trades is advertising how good they are. I've been trying to become an apprentice for 2 years now and it's near impossible to find someone to hire a first year apprentice. It's so frustrating that every time you try and google information about apprenticeships you find pages that are designed to advertise how good an apprenticeship trade is.

I mean the government keeps dumping money into websites and resource centers filled with social workers that make you jump through hoops for nothing. We get it, being a skilled trade is the best route, now give me a job!! I'm young, strong and willing to work anywhere, quit hiring foreign workers, quit hiring worthless hr representatives. its very frustrating, hopefully this program works because here in Toronto, I can't find anything

Oil patch needs you!

http://www.jobsearchonline.bc.ca/pdf/op-needs-you-cr05.pdf
 
kia4ever said:
idk about that. It seems that 90% of the energy in trades is advertising how good they are. I've been trying to become an apprentice for 2 years now and it's near impossible to find someone to hire a first year apprentice. It's so frustrating that every time you try and google information about apprenticeships you find pages that are designed to advertise how good an apprenticeship trade is.

I mean the government keeps dumping money into websites and resource centers filled with social workers that make you jump through hoops for nothing. We get it, being a skilled trade is the best route, now give me a job!! I'm young, strong and willing to work anywhere, quit hiring foreign workers, quit hiring worthless hr representatives. its very frustrating, hopefully this program works because here in Toronto, I can't find anything

Indeed getting an Apprenticeship is difficult. I found one after months of looking, and I feel I only got it because I had 2 years college. Mind you the program I took was all 3 levels of Electrical Trade school condensed into 4 semesters. I left that job though because I literally couldn't pay the bills only making about $1.50 above minimum wage. And it pissed me off that I had all this knowledge already, but was put on the same level as a kid right out of high school. Needless to say I went back to concrete work which pays better, although is much harder work.
 
I was trying to get into a trade, almost any trade, for about 8 years.  The biggest problem lately is that there aren't enough journeymen to teach apprentices.  Of course if there aren't enough apprentices being trained to replace the journeymen as they retire, there aren't enough journeymen to teach more apprentices to fill those voids.
 
I have just found out today that the Helmets to Hardhats program is only applicable for organizations that are unionized.

Interesting... Smaller private sector businesses just don't rate.
 
Jed said:
I have just found out today that the Helmets to Hardhats program is only applicable for organizations that are unionized.

One of those listed is the Labourers International Union of North America (LIUNA).

Story in yesterday's Sun about them:
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/10/21/top-pay-for-building-the-better-way
 
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