R
rookie in training
Guest
my question is why is it not permitted for NCM's to carry a hand gun. i mean yes we have our c7 or whatever you choose to specialize for your weapon of choose but why cant we have an extra side arm?? 
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Certain NCMs do get to carry sidearms it depends on your duties. MPs carry sidearms, helicopter flight crews, NLBP members and if you look you will see combat arms types carry them depending on the nature of their duties. The cost would be extrememly high if you wanted to issue every ncm with one, not to mention the training that will be involved.
Arctic Acorn
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When you get into theatre the supply types will have a spreadsheet with a list of position numbers and what type of weapon goes with the position (C7, C9, Pistol, etc), and it's usually set in stone. It's probably different with the battlegroup, but thats how augmentees on Palladium were issued weapons. For us, pistols were in short supply (all the staff weenies usually snap them up), so you usually have to have a real reason to get one. Plus, you have to have the training on them. Thats how it was at the NSE base in VK, Bosnia. Someone else will have to confirm if thats what they do in the 'Ghan.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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VK WAS really strict with handguns, especially the NSE. They tried telling out guys from the battle group who were going on gate that we wern't allowed to use pistols. Why? The gate commander or SF commander (whoever) didn't have one so he didn't want us having them.
The NSE totally did not trust their soldiers with weapons. In my platoon we regularly swapped pistols when someone went on leave, when someone was going on a road trip, when we were switching up search teams/security teams when we were on OPs. If someone is going to stay in camp the whole tour and work in an office, give them a friggin C7 rifle and let the guys who need them use the pistols.
The NSE totally did not trust their soldiers with weapons. In my platoon we regularly swapped pistols when someone went on leave, when someone was going on a road trip, when we were switching up search teams/security teams when we were on OPs. If someone is going to stay in camp the whole tour and work in an office, give them a friggin C7 rifle and let the guys who need them use the pistols.
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First, you don't "choose" to specialize in your weapon of choice. You are taught and assigned weapons as the Army requires.
Second, as an infantry soldier, I've been assigned a pistol many times, depending on the duties. Search Man on a Cordon-and-Search, Ammo Escort, C-6 Gunner, etc. A sidearm will be issued if the job requires it. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about carrying the extra weight.
Second, as an infantry soldier, I've been assigned a pistol many times, depending on the duties. Search Man on a Cordon-and-Search, Ammo Escort, C-6 Gunner, etc. A sidearm will be issued if the job requires it. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about carrying the extra weight.
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We always got a kick out of pulling into VK and watching the Rear-Ech types start scrambling with those ridiculous "SF" patches they had to wear. We called them the Special Forces.
And I can see why. Watching these guys handle the things was painful. I had to clear a pistol for one girl for fear that she would blow her hand off in her feeble attempt to do so. Can't blame them though, it's the "can't do" attitude that sees regular range training as unnecessary for support types.
Arctic Acorn
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We had a Dutch driver on our staff who had a double negligant discharge when clearing into Tuzla. How the hell do you do that?
'Rock out with your Glock out!' :threat:
'Rock out with your Glock out!' :threat:
S
Smoothbore
Guest
What's so cool about carrying a Browning Hi-Power when you've got one of the finest assault rifles out there?
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It has nothing to do with the "coolness" factor at least I hope it doesn't. It has to do with practacility and mission needs. You would not be carrying a C7 through the holds of a ship looking for contraband cargo, even an MP5 gets in the way, a P225 does not.
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I've never understood that phenomenon either - troops will go all crazy over a pistol, but much more massive stuff is common dog for them. I remember riding the bus to a change of command parade for which I was carrying a pistol and having what seemed like every troop on the bus wanting to get a chance to "see" it like it was so fascinating. It's just a pistol!
Arctic Acorn
Full Member
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Oh gee, I'm suddenly inspired...
TOP 10 OVERHEARD REASONS WHY A PISTOL IS BETTER THAN A C7 ON OP PALLADIUM (Staff Weenie Version)
10) "There are no stoppage drills..it's just point and shoot, right?"
9) "I find big guns intimidating..."
8 ) "Hey, I'm used to low shooting scores."
7) "It's WAAY easier to clean than a rifle..."
6) "The pistol makes me feel cool."
5) "That rifle is AWFUL heavy..."
4) "The staff at the McDonalds in Zagreb always get antsy when I walk in to get my happy meal with a slung rifle."
3) "I only got issued 20 rounds and 3 mags with a pistol...it's just easier to keep track of it all."
2) "When I drive to the PX in Sarajevo, I can't seem to put it in a spot that doesn't block my coffee mug."
and the number one reason:
1) "Lugging around a broken down C7 stuffed in a duffle bag when I go drinking in Zagreb on weekends is SUCH a pain in the ass..."
TOP 10 OVERHEARD REASONS WHY A PISTOL IS BETTER THAN A C7 ON OP PALLADIUM (Staff Weenie Version)
10) "There are no stoppage drills..it's just point and shoot, right?"
9) "I find big guns intimidating..."
8 ) "Hey, I'm used to low shooting scores."
7) "It's WAAY easier to clean than a rifle..."
6) "The pistol makes me feel cool."
5) "That rifle is AWFUL heavy..."
4) "The staff at the McDonalds in Zagreb always get antsy when I walk in to get my happy meal with a slung rifle."
3) "I only got issued 20 rounds and 3 mags with a pistol...it's just easier to keep track of it all."
2) "When I drive to the PX in Sarajevo, I can't seem to put it in a spot that doesn't block my coffee mug."
and the number one reason:
1) "Lugging around a broken down C7 stuffed in a duffle bag when I go drinking in Zagreb on weekends is SUCH a pain in the ass..."
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would a person be able to bring one of their own on ops? Ofcourse, you would have to have either the PAL or the POL.
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I wish though.
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LOL ;D
When I was there (97) my W.O. tried to get us both issued 9mm's as we traveled quite a bit doing route recce's,proving our route's but alas to no avail
Just try and bail out of a LS with a rifle ;D :
??? LOL
So we just shut up and got along with it and did our job and hoped for the best and our God's did look after us in the end.
Do do your job and smile guy's.
When I was there (97) my W.O. tried to get us both issued 9mm's as we traveled quite a bit doing route recce's,proving our route's but alas to no avail
Just try and bail out of a LS with a rifle ;D :
??? LOLSo we just shut up and got along with it and did our job and hoped for the best and our God's did look after us in the end.
Do do your job and smile guy's.
M
MG34
Guest
The usual scale of issue for pistols along with a C7 or support weapon is as follows at least in my unit both on tour and not:
Section Commanders
Wpns Det
Certain Officers (Staff weenies and the CO and his group incl. the RSM) PL Commanders are expected to carry a rifle as they are in the fight as much as the troops.
LAV Crews
Veh drivers (if there are enough to go around)
I have carried a sidearm since I was a MCpl Section Commander,most of the brownings sit on the shelves in the lock up though when deployed on exercise,on tour everyone who is entitled carries them.(see above list)
Section Commanders
Wpns Det
Certain Officers (Staff weenies and the CO and his group incl. the RSM) PL Commanders are expected to carry a rifle as they are in the fight as much as the troops.
LAV Crews
Veh drivers (if there are enough to go around)
I have carried a sidearm since I was a MCpl Section Commander,most of the brownings sit on the shelves in the lock up though when deployed on exercise,on tour everyone who is entitled carries them.(see above list)
I just graduated my SQ course on friday. The parade was intended to be a simple company dismissal parade, with a quick blurb from the OC, however one of the candidates from my course happened to have invited his father down for the parade. His father came down in uniform, and we found out that he's the brigadier general in charge of (or at least heavily involved in) new procurements for land force.
Generals being generals, he was quite happy to chat with the troops after the parade. I'm a bit of a kit hound, and ended up chatting with him about some of the new gear we'll be seeing soon. Besides CADPAT gortex bunny suits, and G-Wagons for the reserves as of next spring, he told us that the entire concept of handguns is being reevaluate by the military, adn that they are now looking into a new Personal Defence Weapon initiative.
Similar programs have gone on in the states, and they have some neat new pieces of kit. though he didn't have many details to give us, I was able to confirm taht one of the four main contenders is the H&K MP-7 PDW.
It fires an H&K proprietary caliber, the 4.6 x 30mm round. It's an extremely compact submachine gun. With the stock closed, it's only 34 cm long, and the forward pistole grip folds in as well. Empty, it weighs 1.5kg- nice and small. The round can be effective out to 200m, and is in either 20 or 40 round magazines. There's a small picatinny rail on the top rear of the weapon.
It's an interesting concept for and SMG- It's a gas-operated rotating bolt design, reputedly very similar to their G36.
It would be safe to assume that the FN P90 is another competitor for the PDW concept- It's proven with an established reputation, and also fires a low-caliber high-velocity round, with large mag capacity. Bigger, though, but on the other hand, we already know from allies that it works, whereas the MP-7 reamins unproven.
I'm unlikely to get any more info on this, but hopefully some of you in the know can work with this and see if there's any more tidbits about the CF looking into the PDW concept. It would be very cool to see some new small arms in the CF, a good compromise between pistols and SMGs. It seems that an entire new genre of weapons is being developed...
Generals being generals, he was quite happy to chat with the troops after the parade. I'm a bit of a kit hound, and ended up chatting with him about some of the new gear we'll be seeing soon. Besides CADPAT gortex bunny suits, and G-Wagons for the reserves as of next spring, he told us that the entire concept of handguns is being reevaluate by the military, adn that they are now looking into a new Personal Defence Weapon initiative.
Similar programs have gone on in the states, and they have some neat new pieces of kit. though he didn't have many details to give us, I was able to confirm taht one of the four main contenders is the H&K MP-7 PDW.
It fires an H&K proprietary caliber, the 4.6 x 30mm round. It's an extremely compact submachine gun. With the stock closed, it's only 34 cm long, and the forward pistole grip folds in as well. Empty, it weighs 1.5kg- nice and small. The round can be effective out to 200m, and is in either 20 or 40 round magazines. There's a small picatinny rail on the top rear of the weapon.
It's an interesting concept for and SMG- It's a gas-operated rotating bolt design, reputedly very similar to their G36.
It would be safe to assume that the FN P90 is another competitor for the PDW concept- It's proven with an established reputation, and also fires a low-caliber high-velocity round, with large mag capacity. Bigger, though, but on the other hand, we already know from allies that it works, whereas the MP-7 reamins unproven.
I'm unlikely to get any more info on this, but hopefully some of you in the know can work with this and see if there's any more tidbits about the CF looking into the PDW concept. It would be very cool to see some new small arms in the CF, a good compromise between pistols and SMGs. It seems that an entire new genre of weapons is being developed...
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