Halifax Rifles returned to Order of Battle?

[Eye In The Sky]

I would agree that Halifax is large enough in population to support a new unit but will this population give them enough qualified recruits? After the earlier post of PLF having a waiting list of recruits it may have enough recruits available.

I did say that, and 2-3 years ago that was the case but, I will also say that at that time, the PLF had the best recruiter in the Bde, hands down.  I used this to point out that recruiting in the Hfx area was, at the time, very strong.  Most other units were in line with their targets, but PLF seemed to always be in the 100% + area WRT to that.  There are alot of units in the HRM (Army, Navy and Air Reserve) but there always has been and they've survived thus far.  100 troops sounds like alot perhaps but in reality, it is not that much, IMO.  Its certainly not enough to bleed the other units dry;  those who are interested in the part-time Navy will still go down to Scotian, those who are interested in part-time Air Force will come over to Shearwater, just like always I suspect.

To be honest, I am alittle more curious/concerned for the Armd Recce unit in PEI.  I know for awhile the numbers have been down (for various reasons).  If they stand-up as a Armd Recce unit...hmmmmm.

There is also the problem of locating the unit (nothing new there). The armouries has always been prime space that was overcrowded with the units there. Maybe this would be a good chance for them to hit the MND up for a new armouries.

As the Halifax Armouries is a historical property, I am going to venture out on a limb and say you won't soon see no military presence there.  Before I left 36, there was some things in the works WRT to buildings but I won't comment on that until I find out the current info.  I might have to go for a drive tonight by Willow Park, Windsor Park areas and see whats on the go there.

 

[CountDC]

As the Halifax Armouries is a historical property, I am going to venture out on a limb and say you won't soon see no military presence there.  Before I left 36, there was some things in the works WRT to buildings but I won't comment on that until I find out the current info.  I might have to go for a drive tonight by Willow Park, Windsor Park areas and see whats on the go there.

I'm sure that there will be some form of presence there for a long time to come. Thinking more of a second new armouries that would be fully under the military control. Perhaps house PLF and the new unit there. 

hmmm - there was that corner lot at Willow Park - I know there was a problem of possible hazmat but perhaps they could clean it up and put a new building there.  Wish I still knew people at CE.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm sure that there will be some form of presence there for a long time to come. Thinking more of a second new armouries that would be fully under the military control. Perhaps house PLF and the new unit there. 

hmmm - there was that corner lot at Willow Park - I know there was a problem of possible hazmat but perhaps they could clean it up and put a new building there.  Wish I still knew people at CE.

Which did have some work done to it...and was talked about before for the possible site for expansion.  But I don't know the current scoop.

 

[George Wallace]

Facilities are a problem.  It is highly unlikely an already crowded Armouries will be their new home.  Today, it is not uncommon to see units housed in rented Storefronts or warehouses in Industrial Parks.  Dartmouth and Shearwater have properties and/or facilities.  Willow Park may be an option, as would any of the other DND properties in and around Halifax/Dartmouth/Lower Sackville.

LFAA only has to delegate the task of finding them a home, to an officer and wait the outcome of his work.

A CO, RSM and several other key positions would have to be filled quickly by LFAA to make the Unit a reality.

Recruiting, can be done at any time, and Aldershot down the road can be utilized very easily to train the new Recruits.  They don't need Armour Instructors for BMQ and SQ.  While new Recruits are being trained, a search can be made for any qualified Armour NCOs and officers, Reg and PRes, Serving or recently Retired, who may be persuaded to make up the initial cadre of the new Unit. 

 

[Michael OLeary]

That infrastructure solution isn't quite as simple as it sounds.  Keep in mind the Navy "owns" all the infrastructure in Halifax, including those buildings occupied by LFAA units. 

A few years ago a plan for a new "super armouries" floundered on two points: a. the Navy wanted the plan to include DND abandoning (i.e., selling to Parks Canada for $1) both the Armouries and RA Park, and, b. they expected the Army to foot half the construction bill (even though it was a Navy proposed project to reduce the maint bill on the older infrastructure).

 

[CountDC]

I can see their point on the Army footing a chunk of the bill - the armouries is mainly used by them and not the navy.  Only time I recall the navy using it was when the Tattoo would come up.  They would use it then to practice.

I thought the Armouries already belonged to Parks Canada as a heritage property? I was told this in 98/99 by the Adjt at 1st Fd - he was also the OC of the Armouries at the time and he was having trouble getting external work done to the place.  Pieces of the building were falling off and he had us watch for a good size one.  When he found one that he liked (as big as a football) he boxed it and sent it to them requesting that some form of maintenance be done before someone was hurt from it.

Don't know the current status at the armouries but years ago they had talked of closing the Officers Mess and have them go to RA Park thus freeing up space at the Armouries (they ended up just taking part of the mess for LFAA).  If not already done perhaps they will revisit that idea.  Transfer the officers to RA Park, move the SNCO's upstairs to the Officers Mess, move the Jr Ranks to the SNCO's and convert the Jr Ranks Mess to office space for the new unit. There would still be the problem of unit stores areas but it is a start and would cost less than a new place (although I would rather they built a new one).

Speaking of the Armouries - did they ever get the walk through exit/entrance that CE was trying to have put in?  It was supposed to take half of the last room in the Jr Ranks (the one that was loaned as a classroom to PLF).

 

[dapaterson]

I can see their point on the Army footing a chunk of the bill - the armouries is mainly used by them and not the navy.  Only time I recall the navy using it was when the Tattoo would come up.  They would use it then to practice.

Irrelevant who uses it.  Halifax is the supporting base and must provide for its lodger units.  In Montreal, for example, a new facility was just built for HMCS Donnaconna - that's an Army base providing infra for a Navy unit.  That many bases are trying to shirk their responsibilities is an issue that does need to be addressed.

 

[CountDC]

Irrelevant who uses it.  Halifax is the supporting base and must provide for its lodger units.  In Montreal, for example, a new facility was just built for HMCS Donnaconna - that's an Army base providing infra for a Navy unit.  That many bases are trying to shirk their responsibilities is an issue that does need to be addressed.

You are of course right - I was just saying I can see their point in trying to get the Army to pay some, especially if they wanted one. Kind of like we do for posns - I have a posn but no money, you have money but no open posn, we reach a deal - you provide your cash, I provide the posn and we share the person. Convert that to this situation - Base has the land and half the money needed, Army fund other half and they get a new facility to use for as long as they want. Worth a try and the worst case is Army says no and nothing happens.

 

[geo]

That infrastructure solution isn't quite as simple as it sounds.  Keep in mind the Navy "owns" all the infrastructure in Halifax, including those buildings occupied by LFAA units. 

A few years ago a plan for a new "super armouries" floundered on two points: a. the Navy wanted the plan to include DND abandoning (i.e., selling to Parks Canada for $1) both the Armouries and RA Park, and, b. they expected the Army to foot half the construction bill (even though it was a Navy proposed project to reduce the maint bill on the older infrastructure).

There is plenty of logic in asking the Army to generate the demand for funds for the infrastructure facilities they want built.  Same as can be said about the CF wanting to shed any building / infrastructure that has become too expensive to maintain.....

BUT, it's CF money - not Navy OR Army money......

 

[Shec]

Facilities are a problem.  It is highly unlikely an already crowded Armouries will be their new home.  Today, it is not uncommon to see units housed in rented Storefronts or warehouses in Industrial Parks.  Dartmouth and Shearwater have properties and/or facilities.  Willow Park may be an option, as would any of the other DND properties in and around Halifax/Dartmouth/Lower Sackville.

Re:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/79655.0.html

Ahhh, a working definition of "under-housed". 

 

[Michael OLeary]

BUT, it's CF money - not Navy OR Army money......

Sure it is, right up until one organization tries to change another's spending priorities. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I managed to get ahold of some people on the phone today...the intent (95% I was told) is for another Armd Recce unit for 36 CBG.  PEIR will remain intact.  Apparantly the drive for this was not started from 'the bottom up', if you follow me.  Re: unit strengths and recruiting in the Bde, no units are at 100% strength, none have waiting lists although recruiting is going well.  This will just be one more unit, of a different MOC, that will be competing for recruits in the HRM now. 

When I asked about infrastructure, I got "don't even f**kin mention that"  HAHAHA.  There is no firm plan, a bunch of ideas.  Back in 2003/2004 the G4 was then working on a new facility (Willow Park area) and was off to meeting with the LFAA, MARLANT and PWGSC folks, so apparantly that never went much further the last few years but may very well now.  I suspect, knowing the area, you will see the 'new' unit locate somewhere in Willow Park as an 'interim measure'.  Anyone who has been here in the area knows that, yes the CFOOs are in place, but getting people to blow the dust off them, read them and get on with it can be a different story.

The phone call was a short one, but I am going to stop in for a chat later this week before an appointment I have over on the Hfx side.

 

[Timmy!]

I might have to go for a drive tonight by Willow Park, Windsor Park areas and see whats on the go there.

Nothing really.. just building an elevator shaft and filling in a huge pot hole on the main drag.  ;D

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I managed to get ahold of some people on the phone today...the intent (95% I was told) is for another Armd Recce unit for 36 CBG.  PEIR will remain intact.  Apparantly the drive for this was not started from 'the bottom up', if you follow me.  Re: unit strengths and recruiting in the Bde, no units are at 100% strength, none have waiting lists although recruiting is going well.  This will just be one more unit, of a different MOC, that will be competing for recruits in the HRM now. 

When I asked about infrastructure, I got "don't even f**kin mention that"  HAHAHA.  There is no firm plan, a bunch of ideas.  Back in 2003/2004 the G4 was then working on a new facility (Willow Park area) and was off to meeting with the LFAA, MARLANT and PWGSC folks, so apparantly that never went much further the last few years but may very well now.  I suspect, knowing the area, you will see the 'new' unit locate somewhere in Willow Park as an 'interim measure'.  Anyone who has been here in the area knows that, yes the CFOOs are in place, but getting people to blow the dust off them, read them and get on with it can be a different story.

The phone call was a short one, but I am going to stop in for a chat later this week before an appointment I have over on the Hfx side.

Real armour or pretend? How about the M117 for them? (stirring, stirring the pot, let simmer) 

 

[geo]

well, unless the PEIR or the 8CH get hammered for some rolling stock (GWagons & Milverados), the Halifax Rifles may have to borrow a page outa the Rifles' history book.... practice "double quick time" movement of troops.

 

[Infanteer]

Awesome, another Reserve LCol and CWO.  Even better if its armoured, which means the unit will be almost completely incapable of supporting the Reg Force Armoured Corps which is, today, the most stressed Corps out there....

 

[geo]

... dunno why they have not thought of doing like they did in Winnipeg.
Starting up an engineer unit ... as a Troop / Squadron of the Fort Gary Horse.

In their own good time, once they have filled in the 1st couple of Troops, they can start on a 2nd Squadron & possibly think of making em a Regiment.  No point placing the cart before the horse (pun )

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Awesome, another Reserve LCol and CWO.  Even better if its armoured, which means the unit will be almost completely incapable of supporting the Reg Force Armoured Corps which is, today, the most stressed Corps out there....

I can't agree with this, atleast not 100%.  While I believe from my own experience there is a HUGE delta in the training, experience and abilities of the Crew Commanders between the Reg and Res, most of the crews can take the PCF courses with success and file holes in the Reg units as required.  Unfortunately, with the demise of Res "Armour" units, the knowledge of basic gunnery will or already has gone away with the Cougars.  Res crmn on Class B are doing things like driving LAV for courses at the Inf School, Armour School, etc.  They filled key positions in the TacPhyOps team that went with TF 1-07.  They play a part in the HUMINT, CIMIC roles (atleast in LFAA) as well. 

While there are huge deltas in some areas, they do have a place and are contributing.

 

[geo]

Are Reservists the same thing as Regs ???  Of course not.
Regs do their thing for a living.  They keep up to date on their tradecraft & hone their skills day in and day out
Resrevists do their thing as a 2nd career - their tradecraft becomes rusty and ancient in short order... BUT... they bring other things to their occupation, things that are "outside" of their trade / outside of the box.
Is there a place for reservists - you betcha­

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Let's get back on track and try stay clear of this same bullshit discussion that we've beat to death, dug up and beat to death again. No more Reg vs Reserve crap!

Milnet.ca Staff