Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think we should just stay the hell out of there. Period. It's an international money laundering scheme and we haven't any money left to play with.

We have enough problems with our own systems, finances and politics. Those should be our priorities. Not someplace that will continue, no matter what international help and aid, to sink into a morass of crime of poverty. This is baked into their DNA and we'll never do enough to stop it. Leave them to their own devices, until someone comes out the winner, then we can deal with that person. Canada shouldn't be spending one red cent in Haiti.

It's idiotic to borrow money, on the world market, so trudeau can virtue signal and piss it away in another third world shithole. Maybe he's even getting some kicked back to his foundation, a la clinton. Nothing about this charlatan would surprise me. Trudeau does absolutely nothing unless he benefits personally from it.

You can train Haitians with people stationed in the DR and send them back with supplies and hope some good comes out of it. Done right it won't cost to much.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You can train Haitians with people stationed in the DR and send them back with supplies and hope some good comes out of it. Done right it won't cost to much.

But then you'd unfairly favour the 'Green Beret' type adherents in the CAF

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

You can train Haitians with people stationed in the DR and send them back with supplies and hope some good comes out of it. Done right it won't cost to much.

We've been training Haitians for decades. The Country has gone through multiple iterations of having its Security Forces disbanded and reformed. We at one point had 100+ Canadian Police Officers training the Haitian National Police and the Acting Commissioner was a Canadian.

The UN was an abysmal failure in Haiti as were our attempts at letting them govern themselves. Who knew? Sending Nepalese and Sri Lankans to "sort Haiti out" probably wasn't going to work.

They need to be occupied and have government imposed on them, by as much force as is necessary. Either that or we need to just accept that they are a failed state and be left to their own devices.


In terms of what Canada could be doing? If we wanted to claim to have any sort of sphere of influence, the Caribbean is probably it, given our strong economic interests in the area.

If we wanted to be seen to be doing something meaningful and contributing to international security, Haiti is the place. We would need to contribute a substantial force though (significantly larger than what we contributed to Afghanistan) and it could be augmented by other like-minded Countries of similar capabilities and military cultures (Chile, CARICOM, American, France).

 

[Czech_pivo]

We've been training Haitians for decades. The Country has gone through multiple iterations of having its Security Forces disbanded and reformed. We at one point had 100+ Canadian Police Officers training the Haitian National Police and the Acting Commissioner was a Canadian.

The UN was an abysmal failure in Haiti as were our attempts at letting them govern themselves. Who knew? Sending Nepalese and Sri Lankans to "sort Haiti out" probably wasn't going to work.

They need to be occupied and have government imposed on them, by as much force as is necessary. Either that or we need to just accept that they are a failed state and be left to their own devices.


In terms of what Canada could be doing? If we wanted to claim to have any sort of sphere of influence, the Caribbean is probably it, given our strong economic interests in the area.

If we wanted to be seen to be doing something meaningful and contributing to international security, Haiti is the place. We would need to contribute a substantial force though (significantly larger than what we contributed to Afghanistan) and it could be augmented by other like-minded Countries of similar capabilities and military cultures (Chile, CARICOM, American, France).

Let's be honest here - whatever the 'substantial force' from a military point of view is, it would be dwarfed by what would be needed from a Civil Service, Education, Health Care, Infrastructure Maintenance, Logistics, Transportation, etc, etc perspective. The need would be well north of 50k qualified people (french speakers as well I might add), across ALL of those areas and probably many that I've not even thought of. Add to ALL of that, the food and accommodations needed for all of those people and all of the 'tools of the trade' needed for them to effectively do their jobs for the 3+ decades required for this to be successful and voila - its not going to happen.

We need to just stop this fallacy of talking about doing something in Haiti.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Let's be honest here - whatever the 'substantial force' from a military point of view is, it would be dwarfed by what would be needed from a Civil Service, Education, Health Care, Infrastructure Maintenance, Logistics, Transportation, etc, etc perspective. The need would be well north of 50k qualified people (french speakers as well I might add), across ALL of those areas and probably many that I've not even thought of. Add to ALL of that, the food and accommodations needed for all of those people and all of the 'tools of the trade' needed for them to effectively do their jobs for the 3+ decades required for this to be successful and voila - its not going to happen.

We need to just stop this fallacy of talking about doing something in Haiti.

I agree.

It would need to be a long-term commitment and Canada doesn't do long-term commitments outside of NATO and NORAD/Continental Defence.

Afghanistan was an anomaly for Canada and unlike our other Anglo Brothers (Kiwis, Aussies, Brits, Americans), we actively avoid and try and get away with doing as little intervening as possible.

We also cut tail as fast as we could out of Afghanistan which I believe signals broadly what our intentions are.

A lot of people compare us to the Aussies but I believe we are diametrically the opposite of them culturally and in how we conduct ourselves Internationally. They have and continue to intervene in their sphere of influence (South Pacific Islands, East Timor, Indonesia, etc) and they have never shown any qualms about participating in other Anglo-American interventions: Vietnam, Malaya, Iraq, etc.

Even the Kiwis, who we compare ourselves culturally to, usually march in step with them.

The Aussies launched and led their own intervention in East-Timor. It wasn't a UN Mission either and would be what could be considered a Coalition of the Willing. It could even be considered a sort of model that could be used in a place like Haiti. It would probably be preferable to another failed UN mission.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I agree we need to stay out of the country, offering training for First Aiders and Nurses, just across the border helps without getting to messy and expensive and does not even require the CAF.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You can train Haitians with people stationed in the DR and send them back with supplies and hope some good comes out of it. Done right it won't cost to much.

It will cost more than we have Colin. There's no money left. It's all been spent offshore and is never coming back. Let someone else do it. We don't need it. Everytime we've gone in there, it collapses again. Whether it be corrupt politicians, criminals or hurricanes. We can't and shouldn't be trying to push a string down there.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It will cost more than we have Colin. There's no money left. It's all been spent offshore and is never coming back. Let someone else do it. We don't need it. Everytime we've gone in there, it collapses again. Whether it be corrupt politicians, criminals or hurricanes. We can't and shouldn't be trying to push a string down there.

You could do good with less money than your average Liberal election promise. Set up a small campus in the DR, hire local security to protect it. Have NGO send selected Haitians to train as First Aiders, Nurses and take them back. All we provide is some trainers and a budget for supplies and to keep the lights on, and pay the usual assortment of small scale bribes.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My point being, why even go there in the first place? We have zero connection to Haiti, other than funneling time and treasure down there every ten years. Just to have it revert back to chaos.
There are other francophonie countries that can step up if they are required. How about some French speaking troops from Europe or Africa? Why does it always have to be us.
More people than ever are using food banks. More people than ever are worried about how to heat their homes. Commuters are burning up their paychecks to drive back and forth to low paying jobs.

We have to take care of our own people and country, before we worry about bad actors who will never change. It's the shoemakers children who are always barefoot. We don't need to be Haiti's shoemaker.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Haiti is a a problem that Haitians need to fix.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One last thing to toss into the mix. Why is the US democrat government so interested in us taking the lead down there. Could it be that certain democrats have become persona non grata down there, but still want a big chunk of the action? Maybe a Canadian foundation, set up and operating like the clinton foundation, who interoperate with each other, needs that loveable, wholesome Canadian face to work down there on the clintons behalf and both foundations will make out like bandits......as always.

Perhaps.

 

[YZT580]

My point being, why even go there in the first place? We have zero connection to Haiti, other than funneling time and treasure down there every ten years. Just to have it revert back to chaos.
There are other francophonie countries that can step up if they are required. How about some French speaking troops from Europe or Africa? Why does it always have to be us.
More people than ever are using food banks. More people than ever are worried about how to heat their homes. Commuters are burning up their paychecks to drive back and forth to low paying jobs.

We have to take care of our own people and country, before we worry about bad actors who will never change. It's the shoemakers children who are always barefoot. We don't need to be Haiti's shoemaker.

Off-topic: so how many applications have been received by DND from this group? Jobs, good jobs are there. Dozens of shipping firms are advertising for drivers and will even pay for training and pay while training and they aren't getting many takers.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Off-topic: so how many applications have been received by DND from this group? Jobs, good jobs are there. Dozens of shipping firms are advertising for drivers and will even pay for training and pay while training and they aren't getting many takers.

There are already other threads on that subject.

 

[YZT580]

There are already other threads on that subject.

you are absolutely right. that is why it is labelled off topic but it does tie several together. Now back to the regularly scheduled reasons for staying out of Haiti

 

[OldSolduer]

Haiti is a a problem that Haitians need to fix.

Bingo. Sir you have won the Internet for the day.

As I see this Haiti situation it will be hundreds of years until they get beyond where that failed nation is now. Thank you to Papa Doc and his supporters - domestic and foreign.

STAY AWAY FROM HAITI

 

[rmc_wannabe]

You'd think after 20 years of COIN and "nation building" in Afghanistan would have been enough not to want to wander into another quagmire.

 

[GR66]

You'd think after 20 years of COIN and "nation building" in Afghanistan would have been enough not to want to wander into another quagmire.

But now we're experienced!

 

[rmc_wannabe]

But now we're experienced!

Experience is a hard teacher; She gives the test first and the lesson after.

There are still quite a few of us who remember the lesson.... most of our politicians were out in the smoke pit apparently

 

[daftandbarmy]

My point being, why even go there in the first place? We have zero connection to Haiti, other than funneling time and treasure down there every ten years. Just to have it revert back to chaos.
There are other francophonie countries that can step up if they are required. How about some French speaking troops from Europe or Africa? Why does it always have to be us.
More people than ever are using food banks. More people than ever are worried about how to heat their homes. Commuters are burning up their paychecks to drive back and forth to low paying jobs.

We have to take care of our own people and country, before we worry about bad actors who will never change. It's the shoemakers children who are always barefoot. We don't need to be Haiti's shoemaker.

Meanwhile, France

 

[OldSolduer]

You'd think after 20 years of COIN and "nation building" in Afghanistan would have been enough not to want to wander into another quagmire.

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