Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254

 

[RangerRay]

Friendship dues?

More like extortion

More like tribute.

 

[brihard]

It’s a no-win situation…the U.N. pretty much ensures that will happen. It will be a botched “policing action” at best. The CAF should, if they go, be allowed to tell the warlords that anyone found carrying a gun or other offensive weapons will be terminated immediately…in other words, shoot first, ask questions later. But then our people would be put on trial by the ICC for crimes against ”humanity” as if those slimes are human.

No, ICC is a court of last resort where a functioning criminal justice system doesn’t exist. Canada is perfectly capable of prosecuting murder domestically.

By “those slimes” that are “not even human”, I understand you to be referring to the individual gang members at the bottom end of Haiti’s poverty cycle? The ones the exact decades of failures we’re talking about have given few other options to? You’re telling on yourself by how you describe them.

If simply being poor, brown, and armed in a shattered country were grounds for summary execution by Canadian soldiers, we would have done a whole lot of that in a bunch of places already.

I’m not making excuses for or minimizing the actions of criminals scraping to get by in a failed state. I’m simply disgusted that you think summary execution - murder - as ROEs is something that should even come up as an option.

I don’t know what you do in life but I hope it’s far away from Canada’s military.

 

[dimsum]

The CAF should, if they go, be allowed to tell the warlords that anyone found carrying a gun or other offensive weapons will be terminated immediately…in other words, shoot first, ask questions later. But then our people would be put on trial by the ICC for crimes against ”humanity” as if those slimes are human.

That goes against everything in the Law of Armed Conflict.

It's not the "Suggestions of Armed Conflict" or the "Laws but only if they apply to certain peoples of Armed Conflict".

We (the CAF) should not stoop down to that. Actually let me rephrase - we cannot, legally, stoop down to that.

 

[JLB50]

No, ICC is a court of last resort where a functioning criminal justice system doesn’t exist. Canada is perfectly capable of prosecuting murder domestically.

By “those slimes” that are “not even human”, I understand you to be referring to the individual gang members at the bottom end of Haiti’s poverty cycle? The ones the exact decades of failures we’re talking about have given few other options to? You’re telling on yourself by how you describe them.

If simply being poor, brown, and armed in a shattered country were grounds for summary execution by Canadian soldiers, we would have done a whole lot of that in a bunch of places already.

I’m not making excuses for or minimizing the actions of criminals scraping to get by in a failed state. I’m simply disgusted that you think summary execution - murder - as ROEs is something that should even come up as an option.

I don’t know what you do in life but I hope it’s far away from Canada’s military.

I can understand how being “poor, brown and armed” can lead to desperation. Countless millions around the world are experiencing that. However, there is a certain moral threshold that, once crossed, removes one from the ranks of the desperate and puts them in an altogether different class. While I’m certainly not trying to classify all who are desperate and partake of less-than-legal ways as being in that same category, those who rape and commit atrocities against their fellow people are IMHO much like those who committed the horrible crimes in Rwanda or Bosnia or Cambodia. Similarly, those Germans in WW2 who willfully participated in their horrible crimes against humanity (and did so with glee) are/were deserving of society’s utmost punishment.

I may have used some hyperbole in describing how professional soldiers should react (and for that I do apologize). Yet I do believe that many of those warlords and their gang members are without moral fibre and use their lack of humanity to install terror in the minds and hearts of the populace. In Haiti that situation has gone on for many, many decades, certainly since Papa Doc Duvalier and his feared Tonton Macoute and probably even longer. It would appear that terror has become an institution in itself. As I’ve said before and despite having my character impugned, I think the Haitian people need to stand up for themselves and take care of those “slimes, yes slimes” who would or have already terrorized them. For Canada to go in there will not accomplish anything other than to satisfy certain political commitments at the highest level. Indeed, I suspect it may lead to further distrust of those who have come to help them.

 

[YZT580]

Peacekeeping doesn't work in Haiti. That has been proven beyond argument. Perhaps though the U.S. could lease the use of Guantanamo to the Haitian courts as a secure place to conduct trials of criminal elements from Haiti. The use of drones overhead by a multi-national police force would, over time, identify the whereabouts of the gang leaders followed by arrest by either airmobile SWAT teams or ground based Haitian police in those fancy armoured vehicles we sent them. Base the teams off-shore to both protect their identities and families and to provide a secure holding area until such time as transport can be arranged to Guantanamo for trial. (just a thought)

 

[lenaitch]

deserving of society’s utmost punishment.

Not at the summary hands of CAF members or any other participating nation. It didn't happen that way after WWII either.

Perhaps though the U.S. could lease the use of Guantanamo to the Haitian courts as a secure place to conduct trials of criminal elements from Haiti.

I'm not sure a functioning judicial system exists.

 

[brihard]

For Haiti to progress at all, they’ll need to start out by carving out at least some enclaves with meaningful law and order, and then expand them while building and preserving institutional credibility. It will be public order policing for a long time before they can really build much investigative and judicial capacity. And yes, it will be a fight. But that fight absolutely has to be host nation led, with Haitians front and center. They need to have skin in the game. And, given the west’s ugly colonial history with Haiti anyway, whatever Haiti moves towards needs to not be externally imposed.

 

[JLB50]

I don’t believe in summary justice. If Canada were to be sent in, assuming it’s not for intelligence gathering only, then in effect, it becomes largely a police action (which I’m not in favour of). But if that happens, CAF command should say it will happen only if the Haitian government agrees that it will support our people carrying weapons and, at the same time, telling the warlords that their people are not to exhibit weapons at all or they may be shot. It’s much the same as a policeman in Canada who would react by shooting anyone who will not drop their weapons. By tolerating these thugs carrying guns you are legitimizing what they do. If the Haitian government doesn’t agree to our requests, then there’s no way we should go there in any serious capacity. I don’t see that as summary justice at all.

 

[brihard]

It’s much the same as a policeman in Canada who would react by shooting anyone who will not drop their weapons.

No it’s not. That doesn’t on its own satisfy the legal threshold for police in Canada to shoot someone. A cop who shoots had better have something better in their articulation than simply “they wouldn’t drop their weapon”.

 

[daftandbarmy]

For Haiti to progress at all, they’ll need to start out by carving out at least some enclaves with meaningful law and order, and then expand them while building and preserving institutional credibility. It will be public order policing for a long time before they can really build much investigative and judicial capacity. And yes, it will be a fight. But that fight absolutely has to be host nation led, with Haitians front and center. They need to have skin in the game. And, given the west’s ugly colonial history with Haiti anyway, whatever Haiti moves towards needs to not be externally imposed.

Although different crisis, maybe a modified 'Briggs Plan' could help in Haiti Briggs Plan - Wikipedia

The fact that Haiti is an island helps through the relative ease in limiting access to and from the New Villages.

 

[medicineman]

I don’t believe in summary justice. If Canada were to be sent in, assuming it’s not for intelligence gathering only, then in effect, it becomes largely a police action (which I’m not in favour of). But if that happens, CAF command should say it will happen only if the Haitian government agrees that it will support our people carrying weapons and, at the same time, telling the warlords that their people are not to exhibit weapons at all or they may be shot. It’s much the same as a policeman in Canada who would react by shooting anyone who will not drop their weapons. By tolerating these thugs carrying guns you are legitimizing what they do. If the Haitian government doesn’t agree to our requests, then there’s no way we should go there in any serious capacity. I don’t see that as summary justice at all.

We had troops in that capacity there in 2004 for peace support ops that turned from green to blue about half way through our tour - the infantry folks in 2 RCR were conducting patrols, helping with high risk warrants and hits on drug and weapon caches, etc. I don't recall anyone shooting any locals, though there were some close calls, even one personally for me.

 

[stoker dave]

A wild card in the mix is Canada's former Governor General Michaelle Jean who was born in Haiti and is of Haitian decent.

Since her time as GG she has been given a number of plum jobs that gave her access to power and money. There is a chance she has some pull and some people owe her favours. As she also worked for CBC, she knows how the news business works and how to shape a narrative.

I am hoping she stays quiet and doesn't use whatever pull she has to influence a decision towards intervention.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A wild card in the mix is Canada's former Governor General Michaelle Jean who was born in Haiti and is of Haitian decent.

Since her time as GG she has been given a number of plum jobs that gave her access to power and money. There is a chance she has some pull and some people owe her favours. As she also worked for CBC, she knows how the news business works and how to shape a narrative.

I am hoping she stays quiet and doesn't use whatever pull she has to influence a decision towards intervention.

The unelected, unaccountable, former GG has already spoken...


Former governor general Michaëlle Jean says Canada can play a leadership role in a security intervention force to help stabilize Haiti in collaboration with police teams from other countries in the region. 'They do have the experience and the expertise, but they can't do it alone,' she said.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Another CBC political genius.

No conflict of interest there.

Trudeau will have to do better than the decades long Haitian crisis to take us away from his ChiCom funding scandal.

 

[OldSolduer]

The unelected, unaccountable, former GG has already spoken...


Former governor general Michaëlle Jean says Canada can play a leadership role in a security intervention force to help stabilize Haiti in collaboration with police teams from other countries in the region. 'They do have the experience and the expertise, but they can't do it alone,' she said.

Some of you may not like the former GG BUT I do like her.

SHE was in Trenton when Mike, Chad and Andrew arrived home. SHE held my 10 month old grandson, thus comforting us and our family.

A number of years later when I was in Ottawa she saw that little boy again. He was somewhat bigger.

Sorry for the derailment. Carry on.

 

[Quirky]

Another CBC political genius.

No conflict of interest there.

Recommend she lead the landing force. Would tick a few diversity boxes.

 

[OldSolduer]

Recommend she lead the landing force. Would tick a few diversity boxes.

You didn't read what I had to say obviously. Despite your intolerance of others who differ from you maybe you should temper your language.

 

[Spencer100]

Canada in the no win situation. There is no good way forward. If Canada says yes its "white" colonialism at the first mistake. And there will be mistakes or things happening that make the news. Then there is the small point that the CAF doesn't really have the means and resources at this time. And the cost will be high. Then as she said we need partners, if past experience is anything to go by those "partners" maybe be of little help or worse.

I guess the plan is to shovel a 100 million in the hole and say we did enough. (I am almost in agreement with that)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Although different crisis, maybe a modified 'Briggs Plan' could help in Haiti Briggs Plan - Wikipedia

The fact that Haiti is an island helps through the relative ease in limiting access to and from the New Villages.

Mind you a major factor in the success of the Briggs Plan was the British strong arming the Sultans into granting land to the Chinese, so if you were a Chinese in camp, you were able to actually finally own a tiny plot of land. Owning land is a big part of the Chinese culture, so that also severely undercut the CT's. So the camps would have to be on racial and tribal lines most likely and I am not sure what the make up is of the Haitian population.

 

[Remius]

Some of you may not like the former GG BUT I do like her.

SHE was in Trenton when Mike, Chad and Andrew arrived home. SHE held my 10 month old grandson, thus comforting us and our family.

A number of years later when I was in Ottawa she saw that little boy again. He was somewhat bigger.

Sorry for the derailment. Carry on.

This ^

Pretty sure she made sure to be at every arrival she could. Her feelings on that responsibility were real. She also gained a lot of my respect when she made no apologies for eating seal meat in the Arctic with the Inuit and animal activists made a stink about that. She was also if I am not mistaken the first one to wear the CAF uniform since Ray Hnyatishyn.