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Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254
 
There is no way a Caucasian dominant military can make any headway in Haiti. There will be accusations of racism and any gangster killed will be a poor unarmed underprivileged black Haitian.
I can’t disagree with that either, which makes it a tough nut to crack. It’s something only the developed world can tackle but it won’t be pretty. The UN using third world peacekeepers is a set up for failure too.

Saying “Fuck it” isn’t valid because it will affect us too. But I don’t know the answer. 🤷‍♂️
 
I can’t disagree with that either, which makes it a tough nut to crack. It’s something only the developed world can tackle but it won’t be pretty. The UN using third world peacekeepers is a set up for failure too.

Saying “Fuck it” isn’t valid because it will affect us too. But I don’t know the answer. 🤷‍♂️
Will it?

We have a lot of planet between Canada and Haiti.
 
I can’t disagree with that either, which makes it a tough nut to crack. It’s something only the developed world can tackle but it won’t be pretty. The UN using third world peacekeepers is a set up for failure too.

Saying “Fuck it” isn’t valid because it will affect us too. But I don’t know the answer. 🤷‍♂️
Short term, perhaps isolation and more interdiction against smuggling, and drugs. Then later involve the Dominican Republic, train their troops, and support them moving into Haitis capital only, secure the capital, then roll set conditions for a Haitian force to retake the country?
 
Will it?

We have a lot of planet between Canada and Haiti.
Not that much. Lots of them landing in the US, then getting bus tickets to Champlain, NY and crossing at a Roxham Road and claiming asylum. Although most of those claims have been or likely will be denied, that’s still a considerable burden on communities that end up holding them for a few years pending the immigration backlog.

Haitian refugees are a Canada problem whether we like it or not. Now, I have absolutely no idea what a solution to that would be.
 
Not that much. Lots of them landing in the US, then getting bus tickets to Champlain, NY and crossing at a Roxham Road and claiming asylum. Although most of those claims have been or likely will be denied, that’s still a considerable burden on communities that end up holding them for a few years pending the immigration backlog.

Haitian refugees are a Canada problem whether we like it or not. Now, I have absolutely no idea what a solution to that would be.
This was one of the issues that the US used to sucker us into staying on in 2004 instead of just NEO'ing our citizens out...that and I'm sure our GG at the time may have sweet talked a few folks into "allowing" us to stay there too.

At the end of the day, Haitians have got to fix Haiti - no matter how many times we (the global we) have tried, it didn't work out. They need to want to change things and be the main effort - our role should only be advise and assist, not actually do.

My $0.02 FWIW.
 
So we're sending non-combatant coastal defence vessels with no real intelligence gathering, air or drone assets to gather intelligence of Haiti, where the gangs will be better armed?

I suspect we would get more useful intelligence by bringing them home and instead having them monitor Twitter in shifts. Nothing against the ship's companies, but they are really not equipped to do anything like that.
Thought the ships could operate the Puma drone? Wouldn't be as simple as semding personnel and drone equipment to meet the ship?
 
Thought the ships could operate the Puma drone? Wouldn't be as simple as semding personnel and drone equipment to meet the ship?
I genuinely hope they are doing something like that. Who knows though? This seems pretty reactionary and making things up as we go to respond to political direction.
 
It's the individual nations, not the UN, and when western nations will not help, the UN is forced to take what it can get. I am not saying we need to be the world police, I am just saying let someone else deal with it, is not necessarily the right attitude either, especially when Haiti is in our back yard vs say the DRC

I meant that if shady shit is happening on mission, the UN as the employer, is responsible to investigate and control it. We don't need to be heading a multi nation force and babysitting and policing the rest of the contingent. Old Soldier, posting above, gave probably the very best reason for us to stay out of there. You want a first world country? Go ahead and ask around, nobody wants this mission. We are not going to create a failed state. It's been one for decades. Low education rate, no jobs, corruption. Nothing to do except join the local gang. They seem,to have a good supply of mineable minerals. Mind, the Clintons stole the gold mine and gave it to her brother, instead of building the houses and complex they were supposed to. But I digress. We have more and more homeless every day. Not just individuals, but whole families. More people than ever before using food banks. The destruction of high paying technical jobs, and skilled trades for Justin Transition. As long as we have one destitute hungry person here in Canada, we shouldn't be giving time and treasure to any country. Even if we took the mission, we can't man 1500+ mission. We no longer hold enough serviceable equipment due to,rust out and neglect. Not to mention whatever trudeau has given away and won't replace. Look, I'm not trying to be impassionate to there plight, but there is zero there for us to accomplish. It's going to take more than a blue helmet mission to even begin to fix that place. I'm also not convinced we'll get out of this unscathed. It's a decades long, almost impossible mission, that will accomplish near nothing. I don't want a single CAF injured, let alone killed trying to enforce a doomed to fail mission to further progress the corrupt UN vision of civilization and government. If it were up to me, we'd quit the UN, and flip them off with a raspberry on the way out of the General Assembly.

 
I meant that if shady shit is happening on mission, the UN as the employer, is responsible to investigate and control it. We don't need to be heading a multi nation force and babysitting and policing the rest of the contingent. Old Soldier, posting above, gave probably the very best reason for us to stay out of there. You want a first world country? Go ahead and ask around, nobody wants this mission. We are not going to create a failed state. It's been one for decades. Low education rate, no jobs, corruption. Nothing to do except join the local gang. They seem,to have a good supply of mineable minerals. Mind, the Clintons stole the gold mine and gave it to her brother, instead of building the houses and complex they were supposed to. But I digress. We have more and more homeless every day. Not just individuals, but whole families. More people than ever before using food banks. The destruction of high paying technical jobs, and skilled trades for Justin Transition. As long as we have one destitute hungry person here in Canada, we shouldn't be giving time and treasure to any country. Even if we took the mission, we can't man 1500+ mission. We no longer hold enough serviceable equipment due to,rust out and neglect. Not to mention whatever trudeau has given away and won't replace. Look, I'm not trying to be impassionate to there plight, but there is zero there for us to accomplish. It's going to take more than a blue helmet mission to even begin to fix that place. I'm also not convinced we'll get out of this unscathed. It's a decades long, almost impossible mission, that will accomplish near nothing. I don't want a single CAF injured, let alone killed trying to enforce a doomed to fail mission to further progress the corrupt UN vision of civilization and government. If it were up to me, we'd quit the UN, and flip them off with a raspberry on the way out of the General Assembly.

Can one even just 'quit' the UN? 🤨



Worse. It was deliberate. The unit hosting the PM set him up that way on purpose to make a fool of him. It was disrespectful, not at all funny, and set the CAF up for harsh treatment at his hands in retribution. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Frankly, someone should have been charged.
To be fair...he could have just looked around at how everybody else was wearing their helmets & followed suite...
 
It's done, we own it now. We sent assets to Haiti so as far as the world sees it its our problem. It will be 100 times harder to get anyone else to intervene now.
 
They’re too busy building Jamaica’s infrastructure…for benevolent reasons/motivation, of course.
To be fair, they are doing a bang up job!

The Jamaicans had hired a Western Company to build new highways and they made a total mess of the situation (must have been SNC Lavalin LOL).

The Chinese came in, made a deal with the Jamaican Govt and sorted the project out for them. They did an outstanding job as well.

To be fair to the Chinese as well, their record for successful philanthropy in the developing world is better than ours.
 
HB, absolutely…on all counts. The North-South route from MoBay to Whitehouse Parish used to be crap years ago…it’s not the 401 now, but it’s pretty decent infrastructure.
 
To be fair to the Chinese as well, their record for successful philanthropy in the developing world is better than ours.
With the added bonus of no Leahey vetting etc...

The term “Leahy law” refers to two statutory provisions prohibiting the U.S. Government from using funds for assistance to units of foreign security forces where there is credible information implicating that unit in the commission of gross violations of human rights (GVHR).
 
HB, absolutely…on all counts. The North-South route from MoBay to Whitehouse Parish used to be crap years ago…it’s not the 401 now, but it’s pretty decent infrastructure.
So the Western company that was originally contracted to build that highway screwed up the surveying and ended up building the highway on geologically unstable terrain and then almost burdened Jamaica with a multibillion dollar lemon.

The Chinese were brought in and rescued the project pro-bono in exchange for future commercial/industrial concessions of course.

The Chinese have quite simply become better at business than us and they have developed a better track record of acting in good faith.

We will continue to complain about them instead of sorting our own affairs which is what we should do.
 
With the added bonus of no Leahey vetting etc...
This must be the weakest law on the books 🤣

Has there been a time where the US Govt or by extension, some Govt Agency, hasn't worked/funded foreign security forces implicated in the commission of gross violations of human rights?
 
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