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George Wallace said:
Likely some bureaucrat (either in or out of uniform) who has either not been subject to a posting move in many years or who has never been moved and, in either case, never plans to be.
Government finds new ways to screw soldiers in the name of saving money: door-to-door move policy
- Thread starter McG
- Start date
Likely some bureaucrat (either in or out of uniform) who has either not been subject to a posting move in many years or who has never been moved and, in either case, never plans to be.
McG
Army.ca Legend
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I suspect it is not entirely one individual. Rather it is that one bad policy is being made worse through a failure to syncronize with policies/constraints of a handful of organizations within DND.George Wallace said:
Clearly the CM effort to spread around COS dates (so that moving companies don't run out of competant teams) is not compatible with the perfect door-to-door policy in primarily military communities.
The constraint that transport cannot get movers or packers on a weekend is also not compatible with the IRP theory that the COS date should be the day you start your travel (because COS dates are all Mondays & that would mean we are all expected to pay for a weekend in a hotel).
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MCG,
Did you get this from IRPP or is it interpretation?
Because in my reading of the refs, "packed" = "HG&E not available", and as long as your HG&E is "not available", the entitlement to IL&M exists (those dates are dept/agent dates, not members choice).
Pack/load dates are set by the Dept and it's agent (IRPP/the mover) and are therefore outside the member's control. The policy states several times that entitlment does not cease when it is outside the control of the member, but within the control of the Dept & agent.
That's my interpretation of it all.
Did you get this from IRPP or is it interpretation?
Because in my reading of the refs, "packed" = "HG&E not available", and as long as your HG&E is "not available", the entitlement to IL&M exists (those dates are dept/agent dates, not members choice).
Pack/load dates are set by the Dept and it's agent (IRPP/the mover) and are therefore outside the member's control. The policy states several times that entitlment does not cease when it is outside the control of the member, but within the control of the Dept & agent.
That's my interpretation of it all.
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That's just sad that the Canadian Forces are doing this to their personnel . The military should have to cover the cost of moving for all its troops as the troops have no choice to move because there being order to . I am wondering if there is any other way to get this silly set of rules over turned .
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karl28 said:
I agree.
The move of DF&E "business" has been a scandal - not too strong a word - for decades and, I think I read just recently, it will be examined by a HoC committee again this year.
The policy is indicative of a major failure of leadership and management at the highest military and civilian levels.
If this is the bureaucracy (treasury Board) telling the DM and CDS (and the system) how to save money then the CDS needs to push back - all the way past the MND to the PM.
Whichever of the 13th floor minions is charged with reading Army.ca should
It is unfair, stupid, mal-administered and injurious to morale.
- Reaction score
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Well,
If all goes as "hinted" in this thread with my upcoming move (that'd be to CFLS Borden on SLT: 27 Jul 2009 -18 Jun 2010 [officially just into my inbox about an hour ago]) ...
then, Ill post all my templates for grievance up here; might as well have the entire CF population posted this year using the same one ... to make it easy on them (which is, apparently, not something "they" are willing to do for us).
If all goes as "hinted" in this thread with my upcoming move (that'd be to CFLS Borden on SLT: 27 Jul 2009 -18 Jun 2010 [officially just into my inbox about an hour ago]) ...
then, Ill post all my templates for grievance up here; might as well have the entire CF population posted this year using the same one ... to make it easy on them (which is, apparently, not something "they" are willing to do for us).
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E.R. Campbell
I completely agree with on what you stated good points on all . Doesn't the American Military provide its housing for free to its troops ? I know that our troops make allot more money than the American counter but always felt the government could do something like this for the PMQ and single quarters .
I am glad that I am a civilian as I don't have to deal with any of this ( Ie I only move when I want to ) . If I had to deal with this every time I got moved I think my moral would go down the toilet.
Army Vern
Good luck on your posting hopefully it will go allot easier than how it appears that it will go from reading this thread
I completely agree with on what you stated good points on all . Doesn't the American Military provide its housing for free to its troops ? I know that our troops make allot more money than the American counter but always felt the government could do something like this for the PMQ and single quarters .
I am glad that I am a civilian as I don't have to deal with any of this ( Ie I only move when I want to ) . If I had to deal with this every time I got moved I think my moral would go down the toilet.
Army Vern
Good luck on your posting hopefully it will go allot easier than how it appears that it will go from reading this thread
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Wow.
Thank you to the poster who first put this up.Being away I had not heard of it.
These policies are getting worse and worse every year.Not only do a wounded member of today's war not get a pension anymore they will try and find other ways to cut money from the soldiers families.
I'm getting so sick of this army.
Thank you to the poster who first put this up.Being away I had not heard of it.
These policies are getting worse and worse every year.Not only do a wounded member of today's war not get a pension anymore they will try and find other ways to cut money from the soldiers families.
I'm getting so sick of this army.
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Is there perhaps some way that we could organize some form of collective greivence? Judging by the myriad of responces here that are all pointing in the same direction, I think its safe to assume there are tons more out there that feel the same way that dont happen to read these boards.
If one person here and there has the patience to submit a grievence, not much will happen.
But if they get everyone at the same time, that would have to inspire some sort of reaction.
Another thought, given that the public loves to love the troops these days, maybe a class A member can be inspired to complain to the media while on civilian time?
I firmly believe that things like this need to be fought back hard, within appropriate means.
If one person here and there has the patience to submit a grievence, not much will happen.
But if they get everyone at the same time, that would have to inspire some sort of reaction.
Another thought, given that the public loves to love the troops these days, maybe a class A member can be inspired to complain to the media while on civilian time?
I firmly believe that things like this need to be fought back hard, within appropriate means.
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No, that would be wrong.
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And illegal. The only person that can grieve something is the member who has actually been adversely affected by the event or regulation. The only people who could submit a grievance on this particular matter are those who:
a. are being posted, and therefore subject to this requirement.
b. have, after doing their reasonable best to meet the requirement, been unsuccessful for justifiable reasons.
c. have been detrimentally affected by the requirement, i.e, are actually 'out of pocket' for their move.
d. have followed up with the available levels of recourse in the IRP system , without success.
Each individual can only submit a grievance on their own circumstances.
And it may take some serious record-keeping to prove that all reasonable efforts were made to meet the intent of the regulation.
An attitude of "fuck it, I'll do what I want and get my money back when I win the grievance later" may not be enough.
a. are being posted, and therefore subject to this requirement.
b. have, after doing their reasonable best to meet the requirement, been unsuccessful for justifiable reasons.
c. have been detrimentally affected by the requirement, i.e, are actually 'out of pocket' for their move.
d. have followed up with the available levels of recourse in the IRP system , without success.
Each individual can only submit a grievance on their own circumstances.
And it may take some serious record-keeping to prove that all reasonable efforts were made to meet the intent of the regulation.
An attitude of "fuck it, I'll do what I want and get my money back when I win the grievance later" may not be enough.
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I should have been more specific. I was speaking about those who would be affected by this. Though, it seems that quite a few people would be affected. I am going to be going through my first move in July so I've been trying to catch up on all of this info. What I'm reading here worries me. Since this is the first time ill be doing this, I highly doubt Ill be able to pull off a perfect "door to door".
As for the "ill just pay for whatever I want and fight for it later attitude"... What about the guy that couldnt even if he wanted to? What happens if you are stuck covering these costs (even if they do reimburse you) but you have no means to cover the costs up front?
As for the "ill just pay for whatever I want and fight for it later attitude"... What about the guy that couldnt even if he wanted to? What happens if you are stuck covering these costs (even if they do reimburse you) but you have no means to cover the costs up front?
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ltmaverick25 said:
Grievance Manual
http://www.cfga-agfc.forces.gc.ca/pub-man/gm-mg/index-eng.asp#gen
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Never mind, I see the answer.
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Not in general sense for the individual. That approach would be a chain of command responsibility, if you can convince your chain of command it's an issue they should fight on behalf of unit members, then the policy can be questioned by the appropriate authorities.
For an individual to grieve something, it has to fall within bounds of the grievance process (i.e., it has to directly affect you).
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ltmaverick25 said:
This could either be due to factors outside the member's control, or principaly poor personal financial management. If the former is the case (or possibly even the latter), it might be grounds to request not being posted for compassionate reasons, which can have its own aftereffects.
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Michael O'Leary said:
How about someone just coming out of school with no finances so to speak? No debt, but no cash balance either.
On a slightly different note, does anyone happen to know if one is being sent from Ontario to Victoria if sending your car is included in the move package. I know it has been discussed elsewhere, I did a search but the information conflicted.
