General Election: Oct 21, 2019

[Remius]

So he took the step to relinquish US citizenship (or a step that could make public the knowledge of his dual citizenship) only two years and two months after becoming Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, or only eight years after becoming Speaker of the House of Commons. 

I wonder if he has been filing his US tax returns all these years; the IRS takes a dim view of non-resident citizens who don't file.

Apparently he has. 

 

[brihard]

So? Elizabeth May was born in the USA. Half the Trudeau cabinet was born outside of Canada. Trudeau himself is half cuban (that was a joke...).

I thought Canada embraced immigration and multiculturalism?

I don’t think the issue is dual citizenship; the issue is blatant hypocrisy.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don’t think the issue is dual citizenship; the issue is blatant hypocrisy.

We're the Conservatives under Scheers time as boss attacking others for having dual citizenship? (honest question)

 

[brihard]

We're the Conservatives under Scheers time as boss attacking others for having dual citizenship? (honest question)

Not sure if it’s that recent, but Scheer raised concerns over Michaelle Jean’s appointment as GG due to French dual citizenship. He even literally said ‘What if it was American?’

Some of the hypocrisy is by virtue of his leadership of a party that has launched off on this issue, and his disinclination to repudiate it while being basically in the exact same beaten zone himself.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Then it's a surely a dumb ass move by him. Far as I can see he was playing it safe waiting until it looked like he had a chance of winning before giving it up.

 

[brihard]

Then it's a surely a dumb *** move by him. Far as I can see he was playing it safe waiting until it looked like he had a chance of winning before giving it up.

That’s how I read it too. He waited til August to begin renouncing citizenship.

I mean, personally, I don’t really care. But I can read the optics of it.

As I commented earlier on other means, this election is like picking your favourite genital wart.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Not sure if it’s that recent, but Scheer raised concerns over Michaelle Jean’s appointment as GG due to French dual citizenship. He even literally said ‘What if it was American?’

Some of the hypocrisy is by virtue of his leadership of a party that has launched off on this issue, and his disinclination to repudiate it while being basically in the exact same beaten zone himself.

Granted. So now we have all the party leaders caught in some degree of hypocritical positioning.

So the question becomes: which hypocrisy can you as a voter live with?

 

[Remius]

Granted. So now we have all the party leaders caught in some degree of hypocritical positioning.

So the question becomes: which hypocrisy can you as a voter live with?

Or do we look at the actual policies and accept that our politicians are hypocrites?

I already knew like many that Trudeau was a hypocrite.  But until recently I hadn’t pegged Scheer in that light. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

Always assume hypocrisy is present.  Always assume some chickenshit misdeeds occurred during youth.  Then you can skip the throw-shit-and-see-what-sticks idiot fest and move on immediately to issues of substance.

 

[brihard]

Granted. So now we have all the party leaders caught in some degree of hypocritical positioning.

So the question becomes: which hypocrisy can you as a voter live with?

I vote the platform primarily. A leader is a variable superimposed on that. Yes, a leader can rule themselves (and thus the party) our for me; the leader cannot seal the deal if I think their party sucks.

I don’t have a party affiliation, and I harbour suspicion towards those who invariably can only vote one way. Every party and every leader is capable of sucking so profoundly that any decent person should not consider voting for them. Blind loyalty in the face of this troubles me.

This election just flat out sucks.

 

[Remius]

This election just flat out sucks.

Mountain Dew or the Crab Juice...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/randall-denley-trudeaus-desperate-scheer-is-just-like-ford-strategy-is-laughably-off-base?fbclid=IwAR1tLKtpsTPar2m6ytzT3NYV4k5d2a9iyS2mIp46HF1NQ8HT65FR1qSYJio


Randall Denley: Trudeau's desperate Scheer-is-just-like-Ford strategy is laughable

As much as Trudeau might like people to believe it, it would be tough to find two Conservative politicians more different
Federal Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau has a clear message for Ontarians: Don’t vote for Conservative Andrew Scheer because that would be “doubling down’ on Ontario Premier Doug Ford. Ford and Scheer, you see, are so similar that it’s difficult to tell them apart.

As much as Trudeau might like people to believe that, it would be tough to find two Conservative politicians more different than Scheer and Ford. Even during an election campaign, when truth typically takes a holiday, the Scheer-is-just-like-Ford argument is laughably off base. It has novelty value, though. It’s not every day that you see a prime minister build his re-election campaign around attacking a premier’s record.

Ford and Scheer come from quite different backgrounds, and that has shaped their values and the way they operate. Scheer grew up in a thrifty, middle-class family in Ottawa with parents who were cautious and conservative. Ford was raised in Etobicoke, where his father was owner of a successful business and later, an MPP.

Ford has a slim political resume, while Scheer has been involved in politics most of his adult life. Ford served a single term on Toronto city council and spent years around the fringes of the Ontario PC party, but was never a real player until his surprising leadership victory. Even then, he came into the job as an outsider who was not supported by most of the caucus. His victory was akin to a hostile takeover and Ford was a relative political amateur when he became premier.

Scheer, by contrast, defines political professional, for better or worse. First elected at the age of 25, he has been an MP for 15 years and worked in political offices before that. Scheer has used that time to build alliances within the party. Like Ford, Scheer won a narrow leadership victory but it wasn’t a surprise to those had followed his career.

Ford is a brash, loud kind of guy, given to the sweeping statement and the bold claim. The premier likes a good fight, although, to his credit, he has resisted the temptation to respond to Trudeau’s constant jabs. Scheer is cautious and incremental. He’s much more like former prime minister Stephen Harper than he is like Ford.
John Langs is going big for the Oct. 21 federal election by carving, into the field of his Burford-area farm, a message that takes a shot at both Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and Ontario Premier Doug Ford. Photo by Mike Southam

Andrew Scheer is small-c conservative to the bone. He believes in balanced budgets and smaller government. His Catholic faith informs his personal moral views. He is a policy wonk who has long been intellectually engaged with conservative ideas. Doug Ford likes balanced budgets and smaller government too, but Ford is a pragmatic populist, not an ideologically driven conservative, and certainly not a social conservative.

Sources close to both men say they have completely different operating styles. Ford will listen to both sides of an argument, then make a decision based on gut instinct. Scheer consults widely and invites others to challenge his view. He’s far less quick to make up his mind. While Ford is content to delegate most of the detailed work to cabinet ministers, Scheer is much more engaged with every facet of his party’s policies.

As people and political leaders, Scheer and Ford clearly don’t have a lot in common, nor have they ever worked together. Both have, however, vowed to chip away at inherited Liberal deficits, balancing their respective budgets in five years.  Ford’s version of austerity involves record provincial spending. This reckless, maniacal approach to government is what sets Trudeau off on his rant about cuts.

Despite having no direct personal experience with cutting anything, Trudeau knows it must be wrong, and he’s putting your money where his mouth is. Four years ago, he said that balancing the budget was still a thing, although clearly not a priority. Now, that kind of thinking is so 2015. He has promised deficits totalling $92 billion over four years. Deficits are good, the bigger the better. Why don’t guys like Ford and Scheer get that?

Trudeau may well be genuinely perplexed by leaders who want to live within the public’s means. Most of the time, spewing borrowed money at voters is good politics. It’s bad government, but that’s a problem for another day.

Trudeau’s Ontario strategy is high-risk. He is betting everything that people in the province hate Ford so much that they will vote for a party that will drown them in debt, exactly what they just rejected provincially last June. To win that bet, Trudeau has to convince Ontarians that Scheer and Ford are essentially the same guy. Perhaps it doesn’t matter, but that’s not even close to true.

The idea that Ontario is pissed off at Ford, I agree, is ludicrous. Where trudeau ever got that idea is beyond me.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The CPC has never had an issue with dual citizens?  Like Michael Jean or Stephane Dion?

And Tom Mulcair, which Team Blue wasn't happy with, leading to the quote, "I’m a Canadian and only a Canadian".

I have nothing against the dual citizenship, but doing something about it only months before an election does have some optical issues.

... you can skip the throw-shit-and-see-what-sticks idiot fest and move on immediately to issues of substance.

Sadly, guess which leads to better memes, zingers and gotcha's?  :not-again:

 

[Rifleman62]

Who knew the LPC was the party of Birthers?

Reports of Trudeau using two aircraft on his re-election tour, as he did in 2015. Report also of flying 13 minutes from to Montréal-Mirabel International Airport/Montréal–Pierre Elliott Trudeau Airport.

Carbon credits were purchased though. :rofl:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I vote the platform primarily. A leader is a variable superimposed on that. Yes, a leader can rule themselves (and thus the party) our for me; the leader cannot seal the deal if I think their party sucks.

I don’t have a party affiliation, and I harbour suspicion towards those who invariably can only vote one way. Every party and every leader is capable of sucking so profoundly that any decent person should not consider voting for them. Blind loyalty in the face of this troubles me.

This election just flat out sucks.

Does that then just leave Mad Max who, although holding positions many find distasteful, as the only federal leader who has been at least consistent in his messaging?

 

[brihard]

Does that then just leave Mad Max who, although holding positions many find distasteful, as the only federal leader who has been at least consistent in his messaging?

No, see my comment about a leader and party ‘sucking so profoundly’.

 

[Remius]

Who knew the LPC was the party of Birthers?

Reports of Trudeau using two aircraft on his re-election tour, as he did in 2015. Report also of flying 13 minutes from to Montréal-Mirabel International Airport/Montréal–Pierre Elliott Trudeau Airport.

Carbon credits were purchased though.

Carbon credits are a joke.  They do nothing to reduce emissions.  Heard a good description on talk radio. 

They played a sound bite of two guys trying to sell cheating credits.  So you cheat on your wife, you can pay a small amount to these guys who will reinvest it in faithful couples to offset what you did. People’s reactions to this plan was funny until they were told that this is essentially what carbon offsets are.

 

[Haggis]

Does that then just leave Mad Max who, although holding positions many find distasteful, as the only federal leader who has been at least consistent in his messaging?

In 2008 Mad Max left a secret dossier at his girlfriend's place.  I'm surprised that hasn't been dredged up by the Crips or Bloods yet.

 

[mariomike]

In case anyone is wondering where Doug has been during all of this,

National Post

Exclusive poll reveals 'Doug Ford factor' a big problem for Scheer's Conservatives in Ontario
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/exclusive-poll-reveals-doug-ford-factor-a-big-problem-for-scheers-conservatives-in-ontario
The poll shows half of Ontario's population sees their federal vote being swayed — mostly away from the federal Tories — by the Ford government’s performance

The “Doug Ford factor” that some federal Conservatives worried would hurt their chances in Ontario this election appears to be very real, and especially significant, suggests a new survey conducted in partnership between the Angus Reid Institute and Postmedia.

 

[Remius]

In case anyone is wondering where Doug has been during all of this,

Who needs Ford when you can bring in another Premier who is likely less of a liability.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/jason-kenney-headed-to-ontario-to-campaign-for-andrew-scheer-in-crucial-toronto-area-ridings