General CFRC Questions – Regular Forces

[RocketScientist]

Hello All. I have frequented this board for a few months now, learning and gathering information, and have visited and searched through hundreds of posts (especially the Recruiting Office section). I have found the members to be quite informative and friendly, which makes for a good experience.

Well, having completed my Masters, I am now seriously considering pursuing my plans to join the CF. I still have many questions that I need answers to, and I have been in contact the local Canadian Forces recruitment center for a meeting. The MCpl in charge has asked me to provide him with a list of questions and/or come in next week to discuss them. I am copy-pasting my email to him below in hopes that I can get more information from the general board members here. This way, I will know if I have to ask him any further clarifying questions or not:

-------------------------
MCpl .......,

I have Rugby training tonight from 6:30PM until 9:30PM. Other than those hours, you may call me at any time at the number provided.
However, to save us time, below is a list of my questions:

Background information:

I currently work at an Aerospace & Defense Engineering company in Mississauga, ON, and have recently completed my Masters in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Toronto. I also hold a Bachelor of Applied Science degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering from the University of Toronto. In addition to this, I have around 6 years of professional experience in the defense and aerospace industries. The reason I am stating this will become apparent below.

Questions:

1. I am interested in serving as a part-time reserve officer close to home (Mississauga/Toronto), while maintaining my full-time occupation as an Engineer. I would like to know how recruits in my situation typically manage to take the large amount of time required for BMQ/BMOQ and subsequent training off from their jobs. Ideally, I would like not to have to resign from my current position to pursue a CF part-time career (my family is reliant on my income, and I do not believe the CF pay for trainees and 2nd Lt. alone will be nearly sufficient to provide for them).

2. I have been looking at a few of the positions offered, and would like to discuss the roles and responsibilities of each in more detail so as to determine which role best fits my interest/qualifications. This is something we can do over the telephone or I can come in on Monday. These roles are:
- Engineer Officer (currently my top choice)
- Aerospace Engineering Officer
- Infantry Officer
- Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Officer

Also, I understand that the Pilot role is not offered to direct entry reserve candidates. However, this is a role for which I will consider joining the full-time regular force. Are the Canadian Forces currently recruiting for this role?

3. As per my understanding, all direct entry officers enter the CF as 2nd Lt. upon completion of the BMOQ. Is this a hard-line rule, or are there exceptions? If yes, do I qualify for an exception (given my experience and academic background)?

4. This is a personal one and may be unique: I am a practicing Muslim, which means I pray 5 times a day, fast during the month of Ramadan, and eat strictly Halal foods. I am hoping that other practicing Muslims have gone through the recruitment process before me and joined the Canadian Forces. Do CF bases and training centers (especially CFLRS) have provisions to cater to these religious requirements? The 5 daily prayers can usually be managed within a few minutes of breaks (not much longer than most bathroom breaks), and I have never had trouble fitting them into a busy day. However, being able to fast in the month of Ramadan, and the availability of Halal food, are issues that are of great personal importance to me, and will determine whether I can proceed or not.

Thank you very much for your time and patience.

Sincerely,
-------------------------

I have searched through the forum and have found somewhat decent answers to most of these questions. However, I would like to know the answers with certainty, as things stand now. My understanding of the answers is as follows:

1. I could not find decent answers to this question.
2. I did find a lot of information on the roles (which is why Engineer Officer is my current choice), but I am not sure which role I qualify for best.
3. In rare circumstances, a new DEO may be awarded the rank of Captain. However, this typically requires previous MILITARY experience. So, not so sure that I would qualify. i ask this because, as implied in the email, the online 2nd Lt. pay scale does not match my current pay scale, which is the main reason I want to join as a part-time Officer.
4. Some bases (not known which) do provide Halal provisions and rations, and breaks for a few minutes from class/training time are ok (as long as most bathroom breaks). I could not find sufficient information regarding fasting in Ramadan, however (FYI, in war-time, or on the front lines, we Muslims are exempted from fasting).

Thanks for your time and patience.

 

[Loachman]

I am copy-pasting my email to him below in hopes that I can get more information from the general board members here.

"General board members" are not permitted to post in the "Ask a CAF Recruiter" forum.

If you wish, I shall move this to a more appropriate forum. Recruiters may or may not be able to answer Reserve-specific questions, and others can answer all of your questions.

 

[Master Corporal Steven]

Good day ACE_Engr,

We have a recruiting website at http://www.forces.ca/ which will answer almost all of your questions. Service in the primary reserve is part time and there is a pay guide on the website along with videos on life in the primary reserve force. After reviewing the information provided on our website if you still have questions that have not been answered then submit another post on this thread.

You can also go to the contact us section of the recruiting website: http://www.forces.ca/en/page/contactus-73 and using your postal code lookup all the primary reserve units in your area along with the occupations available for application within your area.

I have served in the primary reserve for over 10 years.

 

[RocketScientist]

If you wish, I shall move this to a more appropriate forum

Yes, Loachman, please move it to a more appropriate section. Thank you.

MCpl Steven. Thank you. I am currently awaiting the recruiter's response.

 

[mariomike]

However, being able to fast in the month of Ramadan, and the availability of Halal food, are issues that are of great personal importance to me, and will determine whether I can proceed or not.

You may find some of these discussions helpful ( in case you have not already read them ).

Halal
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+halal&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=RjSTVZzSF42o_ALEwoDYBQ&gws_rd=ssl

Religion in the Canadian Forces
http://army.ca/forums/threads/25815.0;nowap

 

[DAA]

I'll give it a shot............

1.  Being able to balance a full-time career with part-time CF employment can only be answered by you!  BMQ/BMOQ crses are conducted on weekends to facilitate those who are not able to take large blocks of time off from their primary jobs. 

2.  You would have to find out which Reserve Units and which occupations are currently available/hiring in your local area.  When joining the Reserves, you just can't pick an occupation at random.  The CF is "always" recruiting and processing applications for Regular Force Pilots.

3.  All DEO Officers are initially enrolled as OCdt's and will be promoted to 2Lt (or higher, dependent upon occupation and entry plan) upon successful completion of BMOQ.  There are exceptions but these are few and far between.

4.  As far as religion is concerned, the CF makes every effort to "accommodate" the religious needs of individuals, however, operational/training priorities can and sometimes do conflict with this.  They will also attempt to accommodate your dietary requirements where possible but don't expect this to occur regularly.

 

[runormal]

1. You simply have to ask for the time off. There isn't anything the CF provides your employer or anything. You might need to look into taking leave with out pay. You can sell and explain to your employer the benefits I.E "leadership, problem solving, working under pressure etc" and see if that helps sway their mind. However depending on the trade you want this will mean multiple summers. I was simply lucky that my employer (Grocery Store) gave me a month off for SQ and hired me back for the following summer knowing that I might leave at any minute for my DP 1 course (I found out 4 days before the course started  >). My other friends were  not as a lucky as I was, most ending up doing temp work or didn't work at all.

2. Figure out which units are in your geographical area and what trades they are hiring for
http://www.forces.ca/en/centres/findarecruiter-110

3. I don't know enough to comment

4. From another thread
http://army.ca/forums/threads/30884.225
"A number of folks here have been saying that being a vegetarian in the CF is not an issue.  Wrong.  It is an issue.  Yes, we all have stories of vegetarians we know that have managed and that's fine, but it can be difficult to maintain a vegetarian diet in the CF and no one should be misled into thinking that it's "not an issue."  As I've mentioned before, the only guarantees with regard to diet in the CF  at this point are for medical reasons.  Yes, most kitchens will try to accommodate folks as much as they can, but there are no guarantees and no regulatory requirement to do so.  Maintaining a vegetarian diet will mostly be an individual responsibility and will take forethought and planning.  Sometimes, the only vegetarian choice from the kitchen may be the potatoes...

On a similar note, if you're "hard core" vegan, vegetarian, kosher, halal, etc, and cannot eat anything that has been touched by a utensil that has been used for something else, you can forget that, because that's just not happening.  We do not maintain vegan, vegetarian, kosher, halal, etc. kitchens."

 

[RocketScientist]

Thank you all. I spoke with a recruiter over the phone today, and will be visiting the Denison Armoury on Tuesday for further answers/information. Once I have the info, I will post it here for future recruits/information seekers.

BMQ/BMOQ crses are conducted on weekends to facilitate those who are not able to take large blocks of time off from their primary jobs.

I was under the impression this was no longer the case: that all BMQ/BMOQ courses were held full-time at the CFLRS. If weekend BMOQ is offered, that would be a HUGE positive for me. Do you know where I can find more info on this? (I'll be sure to Google it and ask the recruiter on Tuesday).

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I will also try and visit the Moss Park Armoury to learn more about possibly joining up as an Infantry Officer with jump training (I love skydiving, so why not give it a shot). Does anybody know the approx. percentage of people selected for jump school after BMOQ (the recruiter informed me that only 2% of those who apply for the Pilot trade make it, so clearly they keep these stats).

 

[Harris]

I was under the impression this was no longer the case: that all BMQ/BMOQ courses were held full-time at the CFLRS. If weekend BMOQ is offered, that would be a HUGE positive for me.

--------
I will also try and visit the Moss Park Armoury to learn more about possibly joining up as an Infantry Officer with jump training (I love skydiving, so why not give it a shot). Does anybody know the approx. percentage of people selected for jump school after BMOQ (the recruiter informed me that only 2% of those who apply for the Pilot trade make it, so clearly they keep these stats).

BMOQ is offered on weekends, but your trade crse(s) are not.  You will still need to take training during the summer (time dependant on trade).

I'm not in the units in Toronto, but my understanding is that they only get a very few jump spots a year.  Who gets to go is/should be based on merit and taskings, so don't expect to get a course for the first few years at least.

 

[RocketScientist]

BMOQ is offered on weekends, but your trade crse(s) are not.  You will still need to take training during the summer (time dependant on trade).

Thank you for the info, Harris. Is there a webpage that lists the lengths of the trade courses? Or does anybody know how long the Engineer Officer and Infantry Officer trade courses are? I think I remember reading somewhere that the Engineer Officer trade course is 3 weeks and held in Gagetown.

Also. At what point does one graduate from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt, at the end of BMOQ or upon completion of a trade course? I read that you become a 2nd Lt. once you are considered "fully trained", but I am not sure what fully trained means in this context.

 

[DAA]

Thank you for the info, Harris. Is there a webpage that lists the lengths of the trade courses? Or does anybody know how long the Engineer Officer and Infantry Officer trade courses are? I think I remember reading somewhere that the Engineer Officer trade course is 3 weeks and held in Gagetown.

Also. At what point does one graduate from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt, at the end of BMOQ or upon completion of a trade course? I read that you become a 2nd Lt. once you are considered "fully trained", but I am not sure what fully trained means in this context.

Promotion to 2Lt normally occurs upon Graduation from BMOQ.  Promotion to Lt normally occurs once you have completed both your environmental and occupational training and have been a 2Lt for a minimum of one year.

 

[runormal]

Thank you for the info, Harris. Is there a webpage that lists the lengths of the trade courses? Or does anybody know how long the Engineer Officer and Infantry Officer trade courses are? I think I remember reading somewhere that the Engineer Officer trade course is 3 weeks and held in Gagetown.

Also. At what point does one graduate from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt, at the end of BMOQ or upon completion of a trade course? I read that you become a 2nd Lt. once you are considered "fully trained", but I am not sure what fully trained means in this context.

Ask the unit you are applying to, they will have the most up to date information.... Then once you get the answers post them on here for other applicants.

I highly doubt that that Officer Trade course is only 3 weeks. I know friends who there as reserve NCM's for a much longer amount of time.

 

[RocketScientist]

Folks,

I had a phone conversation and then a personal meeting with the recruiter, and got all my original and new questions answered. For the purpose of spreading information, I am posting the answers here. There is certainly a lack of information on the part-time Reserve Officer role online (most information here is geared towards Reg Force), so hopefully this helps others.

-----------------
1. What are the stages of training, and their durations?

For part-time reserve officers, the mandatory stages of training are as follows:
Basic Military Officers Qualification (BMOQ) : Done part-time on alternating weekends (Friday night to Sunday night) for 6-7 months. Can also be done full-time. This is pretty much the same course as the BMQ.
Basic Military Officers Qualification Land (BMOQ-L) : 10 week course, can only be done full-time in the summer. Is broken into 2 5 week modules so it can be done over 2 summers.
Trades Course (aka Phase III) : 12-14 weeks (depending upon trade), can only be done full-time

In addition to this basic qualification training, you may volunteer for further training (French language, jump course, etc), which may or may not be offered part-time.

For me, personally, this is the single greatest hurdle. I don't see my employer agreeing to allow me to take months off from work every year.

2. Once training is complete, what is the time commitment?

For part-time Reservists, the commitment is 1 weeknight per week for 3 hours, and 1 weekend per month. There are sometimes opportunities to serve additional time during the week.

3. What are Class A, B, and C Reserves?

Class A reserves are part-time Reservists during normal working conditions (i.e., non full-time training)
Class B are full-time reservists or part-time reservists on full-time training (for example, during BMOQ-L)
Class C are reservists on deployment (this makes them temporarily equivalent to regular force members)

4. How does the pay work?

Class A and B reservists either get paid for a full day (6 hours or more) or half day (less than 6 hours). So, the 1 weeknight per week (3 hours) counts as half-day, and the 1 weekend per month (2.5 days) is 2 full-days and 1 half-day.  Here's the pay-scale: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/officer-class-a-b-service-rates.page

Class C reservists get paid a salary like Reg Force members. http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-class-c-officer-rates.page

5. If I have a university undergraduate degree, what rank will I join as?

The answer to this question was contrary to EVERYTHING I had read on this forum before. I made sure to ask him for clarification and he was certain this was the case.

With a relevant and recognized university undergraduate degree, I will get the rank of 2nd Lt. immediately after joining (yes, even before BMOQ). I will NOT be an Officer Cadet. Once I complete my basic three stages of training (BMOQ, BMOQ-L, Trades), I will immediately be promoted to Lt.

6. What if I need a vacation or some time off?

For part-time reservists, vacation is unpaid (obviously). You can ask for time off from your superiors at any point, and it is usually not a big issue. However, if you require more than 3 months off, it becomes increasingly difficult as the time off has to be approved by an increasingly high ranking Officer (something you want to avoid).

7. I am interested in getting parachute training. Can I only do that if I join the Infantry with an Airborne unit (such as the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada)?

There is a difference between being parachute qualified and airborne qualified. Parachute qualification requires that you pass the jump course. Airborne qualification requires you to train as part of an airborne unit (para qualification + other related training). So, the parachute training course can be taken by any soldier, as long as they can qualify through the highly competitive selection process. Other than Infantry, you can find Engineers and even Armoured soldiers with parachute qualifications. However, parachute training does not make you an Airborne qualified soldier. Units that are qualified as Airborne train specifically for that job.

8. I would like to know how recruits with full-time jobs typically manage to take the large amounts of time required for training off

The part-time class of reservist is designed specifically with working or studying individuals in mind. Therefore, the CF does what it can to make sure your regular job is not affected during normal operation. This is why there is no mandatory commitment, and you will never be involuntarily transferred to a different unit or deployed, etc. However, there is no way around the mandatory training periods which require a full-time commitment, as they are vital training for soldiers (as the recruiter said, you can't fit 72 hours of training with sleep deprivation over the weekend). Therefore, it is up to the individual to come to an arrangement with their employer/academic institution for the required time off from work.

9. Based on my qualifications, which role would you recommend for me; Engineer Officer, Infantry Officer, or Aerospace Engineering Officer?

You meet the necessary background for all these roles, and perhaps are best suited to an Engineering role. However, it is not just about what you are qualified for. It depends more on what you WANT to do. The Canadian Forces will train you to perform your role regardless of background, so pick what you are interested in. If you work as an engineer 9-5, 5 days a week, then ask yourself this: is that what you want to do on evenings and weekends as well? If yes, sign up as an engineer. If not, pick something else you like.

For me, my day job is very different from the CF Engineer Officer role. The role of Engineer Officer is very much field-based, whereas my regular job is lab/desk-based. Therefore, personally, I would still sign up as an Engineer Officer.

10. I am a practicing Muslim, which means I pray 5 times a day, fast during the month of Ramadan, and eat strictly Halal foods. How would I manage these while in the CF?

In the Canadian Forces, the needs of the military supersede the individuals' personal choices, and religion is considered a personal choice. However, the military does what it can to accommodate people of different faiths. For prayer during training, for example, you must speak with your instructors before training begins and provide them with a schedule. Then, they will certainly give you a few minutes to pray and return to the classroom/exercise, if possible. For example, one practicing Muslim in my instructor's class was regularly pulled from classroom/training at specific times and given a few minutes to pray. However, this is NOT a guarantee (and sometimes, it may be impossible).

Halal food is available at every base (it typically ends up being the same as vegetarian), so that is not an issue. The Canadian Forces takes nutrition very seriously. Sleep and rest are never guaranteed in the CF, but food and water are.

Fasting is a personal choice. The standards of performance will not be relaxed for an individual who chooses to fast. However, dehydration is a huge concern, especially in outdoor exercises, and will be held against you.

11. For part-time reservists in Toronto, where do the trainings take place?

BMOQ - Fort York or Moss Park, Toronto
BMOQ-L - Meaford, ON
Trades Course - Typically in Gagetown, NB for Infantry and Engineers

12. Will I get the opportunity to learn French?

It is preferred that all officers be bilingual. In the Regular Force, most officers are. As a reservist, you are not required to be bilingual, but if you are interested, you will have the opportunity to learn French.

-----------------

That is all. Hope this helps someone.

As for me, I have to discuss this with my employer and family and make a decision. The next BMOQ starts in October, so I don't have much time to decide.

Comments, clarifications, and suggestions are welcomed.

 

[dangerboy]

Just a couple of points

Folks,

I had a phone conversation and then a personal meeting with the recruiter, and got all my original and new questions answered. For the purpose of spreading information, I am posting the answers here. There is certainly a lack of information on the part-time Reserve Officer role online (most information here is geared towards Reg Force), so hopefully this helps others.
7. I am interested in getting parachute training. Can I only do that if I join the Infantry with an Airborne unit (such as the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada)?

There is a difference between being parachute qualified and airborne qualified. Parachute qualification requires that you pass the jump course. Airborne qualification requires you to train as part of an airborne unit (para qualification + other related training). So, the parachute training course can be taken by any soldier, as long as they can qualify through the highly competitive selection process. Other than Infantry, you can find Engineers and even Armoured soldiers with parachute qualifications. However, parachute training does not make you an Airborne qualified soldier. Units that are qualified as Airborne train specifically for that job.

Just some clarifications on wording.  The Queen's Own Rifles is not an Airborne unit, they are an Infantry unit with a jump task.  There are no Airborne units in Canada either Regular Force or Reserve.  Units with the jump task will have a percentage of the unit qualified to jump but not the entire unit.  It may seem like the same thing but it is not.

10. I am a practicing Muslim, which means I pray 5 times a day, fast during the month of Ramadan, and eat strictly Halal foods. How would I manage these while in the CF?

In the Canadian Forces, the needs of the military supersede the individuals' personal choices, and religion is considered a personal choice. However, the military does what it can to accommodate people of different faiths. For prayer during training, for example, you must speak with your instructors before training begins and provide them with a schedule. Then, they will certainly give you a few minutes to pray and return to the classroom/exercise, if possible. For example, one practicing Muslim in my instructor's class was regularly pulled from classroom/training at specific times and given a few minutes to pray. However, this is NOT a guarantee (and sometimes, it may be impossible).

Halal food is available at every base (it typically ends up being the same as vegetarian), so that is not an issue. The Canadian Forces takes nutrition very seriously. Sleep and rest are never guaranteed in the CF, but food and water are.

Fasting is a personal choice. The standards of performance will not be relaxed for an individual who chooses to fast. However, dehydration is a huge concern, especially in outdoor exercises, and will be held against you.

I would look at this thread http://army.ca/forums/threads/30884.225.html for a more infornmation on meals, as the info you were given my be oversimplified.

11. For part-time reservists in Toronto, where do the trainings take place?

BMOQ - Fort York or Moss Park, Toronto
BMOQ-L - Meaford, ON
Trades Course - Typically in Gagetown, NB for Infantry and Engineers

For Infantry officer trade training DP1.1 it is only ran in Gagetown by the Infantry School

12. Will I get the opportunity to learn French?

It is preferred that all officers be bilingual. In the Regular Force, most officers are. As a reservist, you are not required to be bilingual, but if you are interested, you will have the opportunity to learn French.

On paper you will have the opportunity to learn French, but in reality it is hard for a reserve to attend French training as it comes out of someones budget and most French courses have a limited capacity and it is hard to get on one.

 

[mariomike]

8. I would like to know how recruits with full-time jobs typically manage to take the large amounts of time required for training off

To add to the advice from Recruiting, you may also find these discussions of interest,

Reservists Job Protection Superthread 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/2552.0

29 years old, full-time job - want to be a Reserves Officer... 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/101467.0

Reservists + Work 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/107451.25

 

[MarkDownly]

I plan to join once I'm 16/17 currently 15 and not gonna lie a fair bit out of shape you can email me if you'd like the specifics but lets just leave it at that for now. Anyways I would like to know how to get ready for the exam and everything I will be joining Army cadets this fall but any other out of school advice, diet anything, I would be very thankful for.

[Edit title to reflect OP's questions.]

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Start reading the forums on this site in regards to fitness tips and standards and then apply yourself to it.
Good luck.
Locked

 

[MarkDownly]

Is there any way to increase my chances of making it into a highlander unit, being from Scotland I'd like to do my grandparents proud

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Move to Montreal and join the Black Watch;

Move to Toronto and join the Tor Scots;

And if you wanted to join the regular forces then, well you are out of luck. The only "highland" regiment we have is … the RCAF ???

;D

Good luck.

 

[MarkDownly]

I want to join the forces at 16 as a full time student and I would really like some insight on how that would go as if is there a course at school or at the recruitment center or what just any info and or insight would be nice.