Future of Government Pensions (PS, CF & RCMP) & CF pension "double-dip"
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SupersonicMax said:
And this is the demographic gap I intend to exploit. The BLUF is that you are right - there is no one to take over right now. I intend to part company with my Mistress (the Army) at about 54 or 55, in the full knowledge that there will be a huge gap in seasoned and experienced managers fit enough to work into their 70'sin the market place, as the Boomers leave, and the Xer's ain't ready....
Yes, I will be your worst nightmare. A dude with a big pension who is going to work for 5-10 more years - and all of that to ensure that my 160 acre retirement
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ArmyVern said:Seriously!!??
Alberta for your retirement and return to watching MJ Thriller videos?? Alberta?? That could be 500 acres of prime waterfront on the LEast Coast. >
Hey - I am as surprised as you are. I always thought it would be Clearwater, Powell River, or Nova Scotia. PPCLI Gal has recently announced that, although we are deep down Montreal liberals, that we are going to retire in Alberta. I take my FAC next week, and am eyeing up a truck as we speak...
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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SupersonicMax said:
So who will look after the over 65 lot that have no pension or means of financial support? Will you willingly fork over more of your money to take care of them?
Be careful what you wish for.
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For all those who think that it is in their best interest to be allowed to work until they think they are ready to retire, have to considered what this really means for some professions? For example - school boards who now must keep teachers on staff until they are 70, 80, etc. More senior teachers cost more money than junior teachers, which means more money for salaries, and less for everything else. Also, who hasn't heard of that teacher their kid has now whose skills are already 20 years outdated? Think of what parents will be putting up with now. This also discourages young, bright people from entering the profession if they can't find a job.
Think also what this could mean to the CF, if it were applied. Plenty of senior NCMs are quite capable of meeting the U of S requirements past 60. What do you do with them though? Let them stay in the ever shrinking number of CWO positions, clogging advancement for everyone else?
All I am saying is I think that if you want to do away with CRA, you also must allow employers to create stricter guidelines and employment criteria to let people go (that apply to everyone, not just the aged).
Think also what this could mean to the CF, if it were applied. Plenty of senior NCMs are quite capable of meeting the U of S requirements past 60. What do you do with them though? Let them stay in the ever shrinking number of CWO positions, clogging advancement for everyone else?
All I am saying is I think that if you want to do away with CRA, you also must allow employers to create stricter guidelines and employment criteria to let people go (that apply to everyone, not just the aged).
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PPCLI Guy said:
Welcome to the dark side!
>
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Jim Seggie said:
Did not plan ahead? Too bad, so sad. You get your old age security and CPP. The country should not have to take the burden because you did not plan ahead.
On other topics, lots of people here preach personal responsibility (just looking at the Occupy Movement thread...). Because you are old doesn't make you all of the sudden special.
I am a big proponent of personal responsibility. Across the board.
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So GAP, please explain why the burden of someone's, or a group of people's bad decisions should be taken by the generations behind?
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The real flaw in arguments like Max's is the underlying assumption there is a "fixed" number of jobs. This is a subset of the larger fallacy there is a "fixed" amount of wealth.
Consider the situation with Information Technology. Up until the 1930's, a "computer" was a job title for a mathematically inclined person who did routine mathematical equations. The job market for "computers" exploded with the demands of WWII, but since there is a limited number of people who can actually do the job and many applications (like ballistic fire control computers, designing military aircraft and the Manhattan Project) far outstripped the supply and ability of human computers, mechanical and then electronic computers came to the fore. Human "computers" became obsolete, but new classes of jobs involving programming computers and maintaining the infrastructure were created instead.
The invention of personal computing, large scale networking and the Internet have driven an explosion of demand for programmers, IT techs, web designers and associated personnel, most of who's job descriptions did not even exist in the 1980's.
A similar situation exists in resource extraction, as materials like copper and steel are supplemented by silicon and composites. New jobs are appearing and old jobs are being eliminated to reflect the switch.
Finally, the overall numbers of jobs rise and fall with the economy. Bursts of wealth creation like the "Go Go 60's", and the Reagan Revolution are accompanied by massive surges in job creation, while times of economic contraction like the Great Depression and today's economic slowdown see the shedding of jobs.
The real goals of eliminating the CRA and mandatory retirement are to maintain the pool of skilled labour (since our demographic bust will reduce the number of workers overall) and reduce the pressure on the "entitlements" budget, as changing the retirement age is a prelude to changing the eligibility and start dates for CPP, OAS and unfunded liabilities like government pensions (est to be $500 billion in Canada, over $2 trillion in the US).
Consider the situation with Information Technology. Up until the 1930's, a "computer" was a job title for a mathematically inclined person who did routine mathematical equations. The job market for "computers" exploded with the demands of WWII, but since there is a limited number of people who can actually do the job and many applications (like ballistic fire control computers, designing military aircraft and the Manhattan Project) far outstripped the supply and ability of human computers, mechanical and then electronic computers came to the fore. Human "computers" became obsolete, but new classes of jobs involving programming computers and maintaining the infrastructure were created instead.
The invention of personal computing, large scale networking and the Internet have driven an explosion of demand for programmers, IT techs, web designers and associated personnel, most of who's job descriptions did not even exist in the 1980's.
A similar situation exists in resource extraction, as materials like copper and steel are supplemented by silicon and composites. New jobs are appearing and old jobs are being eliminated to reflect the switch.
Finally, the overall numbers of jobs rise and fall with the economy. Bursts of wealth creation like the "Go Go 60's", and the Reagan Revolution are accompanied by massive surges in job creation, while times of economic contraction like the Great Depression and today's economic slowdown see the shedding of jobs.
The real goals of eliminating the CRA and mandatory retirement are to maintain the pool of skilled labour (since our demographic bust will reduce the number of workers overall) and reduce the pressure on the "entitlements" budget, as changing the retirement age is a prelude to changing the eligibility and start dates for CPP, OAS and unfunded liabilities like government pensions (est to be $500 billion in Canada, over $2 trillion in the US).
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A credible degree-granting institution may have introduced you to terms like "social safety net," "Tommy Douglas," "Canadian Universal Healthcare".....SupersonicMax said:
This isn't new
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So, the social safety net works when you are old, but not when you are younger?
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:
Obviously you're putting extra effort into being obtuse today. I'll pass.
Edit: typo
Obviously you're putting extra effort into being obtuse today. I'll pass.Edit: typo
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captloadie said:
Those that have argued for CRA have raised a valid point. There are good case studies - with the interwar period for both the Canadian and American examples being notable ones that I have seen - that feature a senior crop of leaders who, with no CRA, stick around too long and basically lock on most, if not all, senior positions within their organizations.
The result is that mid-level guys, guys with lots of talent (like Simmonds) end up sitting around with 10 years for promotion or, worse, leaving because of lack of opportunity. The constant lesson in these case studies is that professional military organizations need mechanisms like CRA to ensure a constant "tilling" of the talent to keep fresh blood in the system.
Another trend in these old, non-CRA models is that most of these senior guys tended to get fired and shuffled off when the next war broke out and the middle guys flying through about 3-4 ranks in little to no time to take their places, but that's another phenomenon altogether.
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