Friendly Advice for potential Infantry Officer candidates

[whitford-a18]

Hi,
I have a question regarding education. It states that you need a university degree to qualify to become an infantry officer. I currently am in the 3-yr degree for criminal justice at the University of Winnipeg. Is a 3-yr degree qualify me are do i need to have a 4-yr degree?

 

[dangles]

Hi,
I have a question regarding education. It states that you need a university degree to qualify to become an infantry officer. I currently am in the 3-yr degree for criminal justice at the University of Winnipeg. Is a 3-yr degree qualify me are do i need to have a 4-yr degree?

As long as it a recognized degree program you will be eligible, although to the best of my knowledge I think that 4-year degree's are preferred and as such you may have a hard time with selection.

 

[ballz]

Hi,
I have a question regarding education. It states that you need a university degree to qualify to become an infantry officer. I currently am in the 3-yr degree for criminal justice at the University of Winnipeg. Is a 3-yr degree qualify me are do i need to have a 4-yr degree?

By the looks of the UofWinnipeg's website, you're doing a Bachelor of Arts, and your major is Criminal Justice, correct?

 

[estoguy]

As long as it a recognized degree program you will be eligible, although to the best of my knowledge I think that 4-year degree's are preferred and as such you may have a hard time with selection.

I agree... if you can get a 4 year honours degree, do it. 

It makes a difference in a lot of fields.  I'm a supply teacher at the moment, and if you are a full time teacher, there is a significant difference in pay between someone with a 3-year general degree and a B.Ed and someone who has the 4-year plus B.Ed.

Don't sell yourself short on your education.

 

[estoguy]

Now, in the theory, you will learn all phases, and then practice the offensive and patrolling first (knowing enough of the defensive to only be dangerous).  Once you do defensive, you will be able to do the whole thing.Unfortunately, no.  The assessment plan is still in the TP, so there are still TEWTs; however, leadership is assessed throughout, and now there will be more opportunities for field leadership.Yes, there is more time to actually learn prior to being assessed in a role.  And more practice time before being assessed as well. 

For those of us interested in a career as an infantry officer, who don't know all the lingo yet, what is involved in a TEWT?  Looking up the term I discovered it meant Tactical Exercise Without Troops.  From the wording, I'm going on a literal translation guessing its an exercise done by the officers without troops being involved?  Or have I over-simplified it?  ???

Thanks!

 

[dangerboy]

For those of us interested in a career as an infantry officer, who don't know all the lingo yet, what is involved in a TEWT?  Looking up the term I discovered it meant Tactical Exercise Without Troops.  From the wording, I'm going on a literal translation guessing its an exercise done by the officers without troops being involved?  Or have I over-simplified it?  ???

Thanks!

That is it, an example of one would be a defensive TEWT.  On this you would plan how you would lay out position, give orders but would not actually dig.

 

[StevePoole]

If you fail the training before you graduate what happens then? Are you placed with the ncm's? Also if you enroll as an ncm is there a possibility to take an officer course later down the road, being that you have the requirements?

 

[lethalLemon]

If you fail the training before you graduate what happens then? Are you placed with the ncm's? Also if you enroll as an ncm is there a possibility to take an officer course later down the road, being that you have the requirements?

Well... if you fail (which they try to make sure you don't unless you're a complete sh*tpump; but also, other circumstances could be a result) you'll be re-coursed. If you fail again. You're sent home. Released.

However as an officer you take the training in between the semesters/years of your degree program (whether it is done at a Civilian University or the RMC), so the CF is more worried about you failing the academic portion. Why? Because that's thousands of dollars of free room-and-board, food, uniform, pay cheque, and tuition that they've just wasted and could have used for a more suitable and responsible candidate. In my opinion, if you have to ask what happens if you fail - then you need to do some more work before considering this career path.

There's no other opinion in this career field (Canadian Forces) than doing your best.

 

[vonGarvin]

If you fail the training before you graduate what happens then? Are you placed with the ncm's? Also if you enroll as an ncm is there a possibility to take an officer course later down the road, being that you have the requirements?

To set the record straight, if you are removed from training for any reason, it is only the commandant of the infantry school who will decide to cease your training.  The reasons for ceasing your training include:
Performance;
Voluntary Withdrawal; and
Medical.

(Remember, if you withdraw voluntarily, it is still the commandant who will either grant or not grant your request). 

No matter the reason for ceasing your training, the commandant will make one of several recommendations to your chain of command.  These include:
Recourse;
Revert to NCM;
Compulsary Occupational Transfer; and
Release from the CF.

The most common recommendation is recourse.  The least common is reversion to NCM (Please note that until recently, this option was only available to officer cadets who failed training.  This has been changed to any candidate on DP 1.1 or DP 1.2).

 

[Pusser]

Well... if you fail (which they try to make sure you don't unless you're a complete sh*tpump; but also, other circumstances could be a result) you'll be re-coursed. If you fail again. You're sent home. Released.

However as an officer you take the training in between the semesters/years of your degree program (whether it is done at a Civilian University or the RMC), so the CF is more worried about you failing the academic portion. Why? Because that's thousands of dollars of free room-and-board, food, uniform, pay cheque, and tuition that they've just wasted and could have used for a more suitable and responsible candidate. In my opinion, if you have to ask what happens if you fail - then you need to do some more work before considering this career path.

There's no other opinion in this career field (Canadian Forces) than doing your best.

NB: "board" means food, mentioning food in addition to "room and board" is redundant. 

Except under specific circumstances, CF members are generally not provided with free room and board and when it is provided, it is a pretty small consideration.

 

[StevePoole]

Well... if you fail (which they try to make sure you don't unless you're a complete sh*tpump; but also, other circumstances could be a result) you'll be re-coursed. If you fail again. You're sent home. Released.

However as an officer you take the training in between the semesters/years of your degree program (whether it is done at a Civilian University or the RMC), so the CF is more worried about you failing the academic portion. Why? Because that's thousands of dollars of free room-and-board, food, uniform, pay cheque, and tuition that they've just wasted and could have used for a more suitable and responsible candidate. In my opinion, if you have to ask what happens if you fail - then you need to do some more work before considering this career path.

There's no other opinion in this career field (Canadian Forces) than doing your best.

Well I finishing my last year of university this spring so I will already have that. I was merely asking what happens if you fail just to know. Its no challenge Im afraid to take.

 

[lethalLemon]

NB: "board" means food, mentioning food in addition to "room and board" is redundant. 

Except under specific circumstances, CF members are generally not provided with free room and board and when it is provided, it is a pretty small consideration.

"Greatly subsidized"

Better?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Heads up all....

TV, what test do they do at Gagetown that requires them to perform pushups?

"A short note to let you know that 2Lt XYZ has ceased trg and will be RTU.

He was EXPRES tested by PSP and failed to meet the minimum requirement for push-ups.  I believe it was more form than strength per se.

Previously, we would have coached him and retested 24 hrs later.  However, a recent CF Grievance Authority decision found the Inf Sch in violation of the CF physical fitness DAOD.  Namely, we can't retest before following the remedial measures outlined in the DAOD.  As he is being RTU, you will have to look after the Initial Counselling and the remedial PT program at your end.

If you decide to send him back this summer, I would recommend that he complete either the EXPRES or BFT at unit level before arriving.  If the member has a valid PT result, we do not retest them here at the School (another result of the CFGA decision)."

 

[vonGarvin]

Heads up all....

TV, what test do they do at Gagetown that requires them to perform pushups?

"A short note to let you know that 2Lt XYZ has ceased trg and will be RTU.

He was EXPRES tested by PSP and failed to meet the minimum requirement for push-ups.  I believe it was more form than strength per se.

Previously, we would have coached him and retested 24 hrs later.  However, a recent CF Grievance Authority decision found the Inf Sch in violation of the CF physical fitness DAOD.  Namely, we can't retest before following the remedial measures outlined in the DAOD.  As he is being RTU, you will have to look after the Initial Counselling and the remedial PT program at your end.

If you decide to send him back this summer, I would recommend that he complete either the EXPRES or BFT at unit level before arriving.  If the member has a valid PT result, we do not retest them here at the School (another result of the CFGA decision)."

I cannot reply because of the taste in my mouth left there from the CFGA decision, but suffice it to say "I don't know..."

[/rant]

 

[dangerboy]

I wonder what impact this will have on other training centres.  I know in Wainwright if a pers fails an express test, we re-test them in a couple of weeks and the majority of time they pass the re-test, but like CTC the courses are not long enough to fully comply with the remedial measures.

 

[Pusser]

This approach to the ExPres Test still baffles me.  There is a huge difference between having an "off" day and clutching one's chest and passing out during the test.  They should be treated differently, but they are not.  Both require a three month waiting period before re-attempting.  Ridiculous!

Surely there is more to this story than we see here.  The only remedial action for failing the ExPres Test the first time is "come back in three months and try again."  Just out of curiosity, why is the Infantry School running the ExPres Test in the first place?  Why not just make a course prerequisite a valid ExPres Test result and stay out of that business altogether?

 

[Wookilar]

Just out of curiosity, why is the Infantry School running the ExPres Test in the first place?  Why not just make a course prerequisite a valid ExPres Test result and stay out of that business altogether?

That is a CTC issue, not so much an Infantry School issue. It stems from an incident 2 years ago where a candidate on Ph3 BFT ended up with extreme heat stroke and experienced a loss of vital signs on way to hospital. Part of the fallout of the BOI was an ExPres test at the start of the course (which, of course, has nothing to do with the actual incident as the guy had never failed a PT test in 2 years, but we had to be seen to do something, but that is another thread all together. That BOI was a freakin trainwreck).

The Arty School, for example, does it day 1 of Ph3.

Wook

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's summer time... and the livin' is easy... (unless you're headed to Gagetown, of course)

Any cheerful, helpful advice for the fresh meat heading to the sausage machine this year?

 

[ballz]

It's summer time... and the livin' is easy... (unless you're headed to Gagetown, of course)

Any cheerful, helpful advice for the fresh meat heading to the sausage machine this year?

Just made it out of the DP1.1 machine in one piece, feels pretty good to be done. This was my second attempt, last year I injured my leg at the end of the defensive.

My advice to my course mates at the start of course was, and to the next batch of people going through this fall is "don't buy the hype."

It's a demanding course for sure, but there's so much hype around it that most people come in already defeated before they start, or they're just spinning and act stupid / do stupid things they wouldn't normally do. Also, you can really see people get caught up in the up's and down's of things going good and bad as well, because they're so hyped up for the course. Last year I was one of those people for sure, but after getting injured and having 9 months or more to reflect, I was able to come into it more level-headed this time around and the course was definitely easier for me.

Anyway, that's just my perspective.

 

[ken.w2402]

After reading through this extremely helpful thread, it’s pretty obvious one has to be in good shape before Phase III. Now, could someone help me gain an idea of the fitness level required for DP 1.1 in more specific, measurable terms?

To be honest, I’m only about to start BMOQ in a couple weeks and I do realize there are quite a few hurdles before even getting to Phase III, but I like to plan things out well in advance so please bear with me.

I, for instance, am rather “vertically limited” at 5’7”, weigh 158lbs (mostly muscle weight; very little body fat). I can bench 200 lbs, squat 250 and deadlift 295. This past summer, I also attempted to simulate the 13km forced march by packing up 55lbs and was able to complete it in roughly 2 hours 20 min (in heavily trafficked downtown Montreal with way too many beautiful female distractions, that is). Now, what’s been distressing me lately is my extremely slow progress cardio-wise. Nagging shin splints have prevented me from running regularly for the past couple months and I’ve been ordered by my doc to not run until BMOQ (starting this coming October 27th).

While passing the EXPRES with its meager level 6 in the 20MSR shouldn’t be a problem, this obviously isn’t enough for Phase III. So say, how much weight should I be able to bench press, squat etc. and more importantly, what level should I aim to reach in the 20m shuttle run before getting to DP 1.1? I’m currently trying to formulate training plans for the months I’ll be spending in PAT platoons after BMOQ and BMOQ-L, so any feedback would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ken