Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Remius]

Those who look past the popular Mel-bashing of the day will see that a large part of his logic was to ensure that EMS could operate effectively while Toronto’s works dept was clearing the snow as best it could. It wasn’t to save money.

Sure. But someone else paid for it.

EMS access to the downtown core is also a concern in Ottawa. I’m sure that’s part of the logic as well.

 

[OldSolduer]

This whole thing has an air of stupidity and ridiculousness about it. Whether or not you support the truckers is moot. They've made their point now its time to move on.

What we should be focusing on is the fringe people who have hijacked this protest. Root the bastards out - the stocks and the pillories need to be reintroduced.

Adding that maybe just maybe the PM and his staff stop tweeting about this convoy. THAT in itself is a problem.

 

[Remius]

Can towing contracts be cancelled, or not re-negotiated?

I would imagine it would depend on the scope of said contract.

 

[mariomike]

Those who look past the popular Mel-bashing of the day will see that a large part of his logic was to ensure that EMS could operate effectively while Toronto’s works dept was clearing the snow as best it could. It wasn’t to save money.

As I recall, it was the first year of the amalgamation. Metro, Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, York, East York and the former City of Toronto.

Harmonization was a new working concept between them.

I think most people understand a mayor does not have the authority to "call out the army."

Mel reached out for help. If he did not at least ask, Metro could have been sued for wrongful deaths in emergency response time delays.

A secondary issue was flooding. The catch basins had to be shovelled out.

 

[mariomike]

Hate is what is driving this in the first place.

I thought it was "Freedom"?

 

[Remius]

Again I see and hear more support for the truckers on SM and on News 95.7 but on the established media is more against the truckers.

This leads me to believe there is more support for this than some would like to believe.

Depends on what social media you listen to.

Local radio here 580 CFRA isn’t too thrilled with them. If they want them to move on then I’m not sure where the support is otherwise.

 

[Good2Golf]

…Warning of guns brought at the protest:

Canada police warn of guns at Ottawa anti-vaccine mandate trucker protest

Police in Ottawa see signs that guns have been brought into a truckers' protest against vaccine mandates that has paralyzed the Canadian capital, the police chief said on Wednesday, adding that calling in the military would pose major risks.

www.reuters.com

This comes across as politicians using cops to up the ante against the protesters after Khadr 1 of vilification pointing to a Nazi flag and Confederate flags didn’t result in the outright condemnation of all protesters like the PM tried to portray.

One might ask “what signs“ are the police ‘seeing’ and the what concrete actions are they taking? Otherwise, it comes across to many as a throw-away statement intended to support politicians continuing to vilify the protest, or somehow justify ramping up actions without themselves looking like they have lost patience with the light and heat that the protesters have if not other than indirectly brought onto the politicians.

 

[lenaitch]

There are a lot more heavy rotator wreckers in the commercial fleet than the military, so a police escorted rotator would be a lot more useful.

Edit to add: see, lots of local stuff…how about this bad boy. 50-ton, dual rotator AND plenty of Canada flags to boot!
View attachment 68462

The reportedly largest one in Ontario is just down the road (Herb's) - 80-ton.

Most cities have towing contracts, but not all have them for heavy recovery because their need - for police-initiated services - would be relatively infrequent. Normal recovery of large commercial vehicles is usually initiated by the company or their insurance company. I figure for every rig they would want to haul away, they'd need it to be surrounded by a public order unit. Not a quick process by the time you position the wrecker, remove the driveshaft, etc. Whether a particular recovery company would refuse the call is unknown, and I don't know what their rate would be (of course, the city would be on the hook, so to speak).

******

Calling in the military under ACP doesn't mean the military can legally do any more than the police can. I suppose the feds could invoke the Emergencies Act but I'm not sure bylaw and provincial traffic violations meet the threshold. Agree that an injunction is a good start.

 

[Good2Golf]

The reportedly largest one in Ontario is just down the road (Herb's) - 80-ton.

Most cities have towing contracts, but not all have them for heavy recovery because their need - for police-initiated services - would be relatively infrequent. Normal recovery of large commercial vehicles is usually initiated by the company or their insurance company. I figure for every rig they would want to haul away, they'd need it to be surrounded by a public order unit. Not a quick process by the time you position the wrecker, remove the driveshaft, etc. Whether a particular recovery company would refuse the call is unknown, and I don't know what their rate would be (of course, the city would be on the hook, so to speak).

Yup, may take a while for the first rig or two to go, but the others would probably get the message (and a potential bill) and reconsider moving out as requested.

Calling in the military under ACP doesn't mean the military can legally do any more than the police can. I suppose the feds could invoke the Emergencies Act but I'm not sure bylaw and provincial traffic violations meet the threshold. Agree that an injunction is a good start.

Agree. As it stand now, it’s YOW By-Laws and OHTA…pending anything more serious from the OPS’ most recent trial-balloon like statement about ‘seeing signs’ of guns…

 

[Jarnhamar]

And yes, if it isn’t in your backyard then you don’t care. That is not just an Ottawa thing. That’s just a crappy thing humans do everywhere.

So hate Ottawa all you want. Hate is what is driving this in the first place.

You're right, that's not Ottawa specific.

I think what's driving this in the first place is the identity politics that were started a while ago i.e "You're not in Alberta anymore". The government has pushed an Ottawa vs the west feeling for some time now and the "deplorable effect" isn't helping either. The government has really pushed a narrative that anyone who isn't on board with their views are racists, anti science, homophobic, misogynist, and so on.

I bet a lot of the supporters for this protest don't give a shit about mandates, they're pissed at feeling ostracized by the government.

Then fire them. With possible jail first. It’s the Army. If you can’t keep your politics separate from your job then get out.

This can be a double edged sword though.

The RCMP removing First Nations children from their homes, often by force, and bringing them to residential schools were just doing their job.
Had enough of them said 'That's f**ked up, no.' a whole culture may be in a very different place. Lots of lives saved.

Obviously drastically different example than this but we can't drown our members in ethics training, online course after online course, leverage secondary education as promotion points, then expect soldiers not to have opinions and think for themselves.

 

[LiveFightMove]

Trudeau didnt say Canada gets a kick back for every Moderna and Pfizer vaccine administered, did he?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1488910670674472970

Money is the root of all evil.

 

[Brad Sallows]

This seems to be growing and getting away from the Gov.

Preference cascade.

 

[Remius]

Yup, may take a while for the first rig or two to go, but the others would probably get the message (and a potential bill) and reconsider moving out as requested.



Agree. As it stand now, it’s YOW By-Laws and OHTA…pending anything more serious from the OPS’ most recent trial-balloon like statement about ‘seeing signs’ of guns…

There has been only one arrest of one person making his way to the hill with a long gun. So a bit more than seeing but less than all of them having guns.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Then fire them. With possible jail first. It’s the Army. If you can’t keep your politics separate from your job then get out.

Depends on exactly what they are asked to do. "Respect the dignity of all persons."

 

[The Bread Guy]

... The RCMP removing First Nations children from their homes, often by force, and bringing them to residential schools were just doing their job.
Had enough of them said 'That's f**ked up, no.' a whole culture may be in a very different place. Lots of lives saved ...

Good point & example. And if they said, "that's f**ked up, no", they'd have faced consequences, too. And given the government's intent @ that point (which we now look at in a different light), they'd have likely had others do the same thing. Yeah, it allows the conscientious objectors to look themselves in the mirror, but they'd still have been out of work.

... we can't drown our members in ethics training, online course after online course, leverage secondary education as promotion points, then expect soldiers not to have opinions and think for themselves.

Bang on - but it seems history'll be the ultimate judge, for better or worse

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

You're right, that's not Ottawa specific.

I think what's driving this in the first place is the identity politics that were started a while ago i.e "You're not in Alberta anymore". The government has pushed an Ottawa vs the west feeling for some time now and the "deplorable effect" isn't helping either. The government has really pushed a narrative that anyone who isn't on board with their views are racists, anti science, homophobic, misogynist, and so on.

I bet a lot of the supporters for this protest don't give a shit about mandates, they're pissed at feeling ostracized by the government.


This can be a double edged sword though.

The RCMP removing First Nations children from their homes, often by force, and bringing them to residential schools were just doing their job.
Had enough of them said 'That's f**ked up, no.' a whole culture may be in a very different place. Lots of lives saved.

Obviously drastically different example than this but we can't drown our members in ethics training, online course after online course, leverage secondary education as promotion points, then expect soldiers not to have opinions and think for themselves.

Common, we are experts at it!

Feds face calls for inquiry into military’s handling of Iraq war crime reports - National | Globalnews.ca

The federal Liberal government is facing calls for an independent inquiry following allegations the military failed to respond to a complaint three years ago.

globalnews.ca

"Just don't pay attention to those War Crimes Sergeant! It's easier to just pretend they never happened"

 

[NotSoWiseKingSolomon]

Can towing contracts be cancelled, or not re-negotiated?

They aren't refusing it outright. They been saying " I have COVID". They are using the mandates against the politicians. They could even say "I am exposed to a COVID case and thus by health policies going to self isolate to be safe and not spread the virus".
If they tell them to come to work anyway, it just shows the mandates have no logical sense.

 

[mariomike]

They aren't refusing it outright. They been saying " I have COVID".

Pre-Covid, unless on Standby, when they called for OT, some used to say, "Sorry, love to help. But, I've been drinking."

 

[Remius]

You're right, that's not Ottawa specific.

I think what's driving this in the first place is the identity politics that were started a while ago i.e "You're not in Alberta anymore". The government has pushed an Ottawa vs the west feeling for some time now and the "deplorable effect" isn't helping either. The government has really pushed a narrative that anyone who isn't on board with their views are racists, anti science, homophobic, misogynist, and so on.

I bet a lot of the supporters for this protest don't give a shit about mandates, they're pissed at feeling ostracized by the government.


This can be a double edged sword though.

The RCMP removing First Nations children from their homes, often by force, and bringing them to residential schools were just doing their job.
Had enough of them said 'That's f**ked up, no.' a whole culture may be in a very different place. Lots of lives saved.

Obviously drastically different example than this but we can't drown our members in ethics training, online course after online course, leverage secondary education as promotion points, then expect soldiers not to have opinions and think for themselves.

Not denying any of the identity politics you bring up.

Very different cases. We are not talking about cultural genocide here. It’s about restoring order. I’m not advocating the use of the military. But the question was what would happen if an ACA was granted and troops refused to go. The implication isn’t a question of ethics but a question of political views.

And as I said, if they can’t separate their politics from their jobs they should get out.

 

[Remius]

And if anyone was wondering.

Prime Minister Trudeau comments on whether military could be called over convoy protest

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says calling in the military to end the trucker convoy standoff in Ottawa is 'not in the cards right now,' nor does he have any plans to engage with the few hundred protesters remaining camped out on city streets.

www.ctvnews.ca

Note what he said about a few years ago (talking about when indigenous groups blocked rail). Looks like a consistant approach.