Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[ArmyRick]

Some may be as fired up now as they were a year ago, or after he beat Harper ... Scheer ... O'Toole ...

Funny. I remember Paul Martins Liberals having a cocky attitude in the 2006 election. Then suddenly, they weren't the government anymore.

Trudeau has gone from a majority to a minority to another minority. You call that a win?

 

[Remius]

Funny. I remember Paul Martins Liberals having a cocky attitude in the 2006 election. Then suddenly, they weren't the government anymore.

Trudeau has gone from a majority to a minority to another minority. You call that a win?

Liberals didn’t win the last election. From my POV the conservatives lost it. Remains to be seen if they will lose the next one again.

 

[Lumber]

EVERYONE I spoke to in oil and gas industry one way or another (I know a few) have said there was huge potential to develop LNG. There is also much more than LNG with O & G. The pipelines ring a bell?

Policies? Lets start with carbon tax. GET RID OF IT!

Swing and a miss. Once again you've failed to provide me any relevant examples.

I'm not going to deny that their is huge potential to develop LNG in Canada. That's why there's a project literally called "LGN Canada", which received it's permits and environmental assessments in 2016 and approved in 2018. That was during Harper's reign, right? Oh wait...

Pipelines? The Trudeau liberals bought a pipeline for $4.5 billion in order to ensure Alberta's oil products could get to BC.

Carbon tax? I believe I've already gone over this recently. For the provinces that DO have a carbon tax in place, carbon tax added only a few pennies to a litre of gas, nat gas, and propane. The carbon tax has had a negligible effect on the inflation of the cost of living, doubly so when compared to how much of an effect outside factors have had. So, sure we could get rid of it, but it would not change the situation your friends are in, and if we had never had it in the first place, we still would be where we are.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Swing and a miss. Once again you've failed to provide me any relevant examples.

I'm not going to deny that their is huge potential to develop LNG in Canada. That's why there's a project literally called "LGN Canada", which received it's permits and environmental assessments in 2016 and approved in 2018. That was during Harper's reign, right? Oh wait...

Pipelines? The Trudeau liberals bought a pipeline for $4.5 billion in order to ensure Alberta's oil products could get to BC.

Carbon tax? I believe I've already gone over this recently. For the provinces that DO have a carbon tax in place, carbon tax added only a few pennies to a litre of gas, nat gas, and propane. The carbon tax has had a negligible effect on the inflation of the cost of living, doubly so when compared to how much of an effect outside factors have had. So, sure we could get rid of it, but it would not change the situation your friends are in, and if we had never had it in the first place, we still would be where we are.

And the overhead is increasing exponentially.... the camel's back is groaning:

Public service will swell to 409,000 in five years, PBO says​

“Oh, yes, they’re growing the public service,” parliamentary budget officer says, with an extra $2.3 billion earmarked for salaries and benefits.

---

OTTAWA – The seven-year hiring spree in Canada’s public service will continue with billions of dollars in additional spending that will push the size of the workforce to about 409,000 jobs within five years, says the parliamentary budget officer.

Treasury Board President Mona Fortier tabled the government’s latest spending plans – known as supplementary estimates (B) – asking Parliament to approve another $21 billion. That’s among some of the biggest asks in supplementary estimates other than emergency spending to deal with the pandemic.

In his latest report, Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimates $2.3 billion of this additional spending is needed for the salaries and benefits of an expanding bureaucracy, which pushes the wage bill to $55 billion this year. That’s more than $130,000 per full-time employee.

Public service will swell to 409,000 in five years, PBO says

“Oh, yes, they’re growing the public service,” parliamentary budget officer says, with an extra $2.3 billion for salaries and benefits.

policyoptions.irpp.org

 

[kev994]

And the overhead is increasing exponentially.... the camel's back is groaning:

Public service will swell to 409,000 in five years, PBO says​

“Oh, yes, they’re growing the public service,” parliamentary budget officer says, with an extra $2.3 billion earmarked for salaries and benefits.

---

OTTAWA – The seven-year hiring spree in Canada’s public service will continue with billions of dollars in additional spending that will push the size of the workforce to about 409,000 jobs within five years, says the parliamentary budget officer.

Treasury Board President Mona Fortier tabled the government’s latest spending plans – known as supplementary estimates (B) – asking Parliament to approve another $21 billion. That’s among some of the biggest asks in supplementary estimates other than emergency spending to deal with the pandemic.

In his latest report, Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimates $2.3 billion of this additional spending is needed for the salaries and benefits of an expanding bureaucracy, which pushes the wage bill to $55 billion this year. That’s more than $130,000 per full-time employee.

Public service will swell to 409,000 in five years, PBO says

“Oh, yes, they’re growing the public service,” parliamentary budget officer says, with an extra $2.3 billion for salaries and benefits.

policyoptions.irpp.org

The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the ever-expanding needs of the bureaucracy.

 

[Good2Golf]

The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the ever-expanding needs of the bureaucracy.

Sounds like a line from “Yes, Minister.”

 

[Brad Sallows]

Sounds like a line from “Yes, Minister.”

Oscar Wilde, apparently.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Carbon tax? I believe I've already gone over this recently. For the provinces that DO have a carbon tax in place, carbon tax added only a few pennies to a litre of gas, nat gas, and propane. The carbon tax has had a negligible effect on the inflation of the cost of living, doubly so when compared to how much of an effect outside factors have had. So, sure we could get rid of it, but it would not change the situation your friends are in, and if we had never had it in the first place, we still would be where we are.

A few pennies? How about 11 cents per litre of Gas, or 10 cents per metre of natural gas? Not to mention the add on effects of having higher gas prices, i.e. suppliers having to increase costs to cover the higher fuel prices.

This might be nothing for you but when you consider it is close to a 10% mark up which is nothing but a tax grab it doesn't sit well with me.

 

[ArmyRick]

The carbon tax has had a negligible effect on the inflation of the cost of living, doubly so when compared to how much of an effect outside factors have had. So, sure we could get rid of it, but it would not change the situation your friends are in, and if we had never had it in the first place, we still would be where we are.

This is true because you say so?

Nope, big nope. Its alot more of a multiplier and cascading effect than you realize. I felt the pain myself.

One small example I went through
-I average 35-50 customers a year freezer meat orders (I make about 10-15G a year from this)
-Customers very satisfied with the product
-Summer is rolling around, my customers are mostly urbanites that travel 2-6 hours to get their orders (Yes that far)
-I ended up with 3 meat order customers
-I follow up with my other regulars as to what happened
-Example of some of the reasons
---Gas is too expensive to make the trip
---We can't afford meat anymore
---We have to choose between hydro, heat and food
---We can only afford to buy Costco sale beef
---I have to sell my house, can't afford anything
---Etc

I am but one example of many, many businesses that feel the pain of the carbon tax. You, yes YOU make all these assumptions that its other factors (there are a FEW not many), However you seem happy to offer up explanation after explanation. Your tone deaf. End story.

I am only touching the tip of the ice berg on Trudeau's carbon tax. Just about all of his policies are a colossal failure and waste of money. Everything they touch is a boondoggle and prime example of mismanagement. Printing new money doesn't help. Continious waste of public funds. Extra elections when he said he wouldn't do it. Never answering in parliament for his actions. How long of a list do I need to make?

The government should be doing what they can to enable Canadians, not further hinder them.

The ship is sinking with an incompetent Captain and too many people are making excuses for him. Enough.

 

[kev994]

This is true because you say so?

Nope, big nope. Its alot more of a multiplier and cascading effect than you realize. I felt the pain myself.

One small example I went through
-I average 35-50 customers a year freezer meat orders (I make about 10-15G a year from this)
-Customers very satisfied with the product
-Summer is rolling around, my customers are mostly urbanites that travel 2-6 hours to get their orders (Yes that far)
-I ended up with 3 meat order customers
-I follow up with my other regulars as to what happened
-Example of some of the reasons
---Gas is too expensive to make the trip
---We can't afford meat anymore
---We have to choose between hydro, heat and food
---We can only afford to buy Costco sale beef
---I have to sell my house, can't afford anything
---Etc

I am but one example of many, many businesses that feel the pain of the carbon tax. You, yes YOU make all these assumptions that its other factors (there are a FEW not many), However you seem happy to offer up explanation after explanation. Your tone deaf. End story.

I am only touching the tip of the ice berg on Trudeau's carbon tax. Just about all of his policies are a colossal failure and waste of money. Everything they touch is a boondoggle and prime example of mismanagement. Printing new money doesn't help. Continious waste of public funds. Extra elections when he said he wouldn't do it. Never answering in parliament for his actions. How long of a list do I need to make?

The government should be doing what they can to enable Canadians, not further hinder them.

The ship is sinking with an incompetent Captain and too many people are making excuses for him. Enough.

It’s unfortunate for you but I wouldn’t call it a boondoggle with the argument that it’s doing exactly what it’s designed to do. Driving 2-6 hours? High carbon. Eating copious amounts of beef? High carbon. Your argument is that you don’t like it because it’s working.

 

[ArmyRick]

Eating bee

It’s unfortunate for you but I wouldn’t call it a boondoggle with the argument that it’s doing exactly what it’s designed to do. Driving 2-6 hours? High carbon. Eating copious amounts of beef? High carbon. Your argument is that you don’t like it because it’s working.

Eating beef by itself is NOT high carbon. I will go circles around you on farming in Canada. My cattle and lamb NEVER see a feedlot, they are on pasture one day and the next in slaughterhouse.
Driving 2-6 hours to fill a large freezer with meat in ONE trip is more efficient than 30-60 trips over six months to get weekly meat in grocery runs. YOUR making assumptions. Better dig in and get some facts first.

How is the carbon tax not a boondoggle? It isn't slowing people down (people still have to commute). It is slightly raising demand of EV (which are useless for the most part and really expensive). Hint, Canadians outside of the GTA and Urban Ontario think the Carbon Tax is causing more harm than good.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It’s unfortunate for you but I wouldn’t call it a boondoggle with the argument that it’s doing exactly what it’s designed to do. Driving 2-6 hours? High carbon. Eating copious amounts of beef? High carbon. Your argument is that you don’t like it because it’s working.

A plan to fail going as well as a plan to fail can go is actually working as intended. Its ridiculous, but I get it.

 

[kev994]

Eating bee

Eating beef by itself is NOT high carbon. I will go circles around you on farming in Canada. My cattle and lamb NEVER see a feedlot, they are on pasture one day and the next in slaughterhouse.
Driving 2-6 hours to fill a large freezer with meat in ONE trip is more efficient than 30-60 trips over six months to get weekly meat in grocery runs. YOUR making assumptions. Better dig in and get some facts first.

How is the carbon tax not a boondoggle? It isn't slowing people down (people still have to commute). It is slightly raising demand of EV (which are useless for the most part and really expensive). Hint, Canadians outside of the GTA and Urban Ontario think the Carbon Tax is causing more harm than good.

This is just the first one that came up but there are plenty of different sites with similar charts, beef is always near the top by a large margin. So you think that if people don’t have a freezer full of meat that they’re going to make a separate trip to the grocery store for every meal, just for meat, instead of getting it on their regular grocery trip? Ha!

Carbon Footprint of Food | Green Eatz

Carbon footprint ranking of food and tips on reducing your carbon footprint by cooking smartly, eating vegan and shopping wisely.

www.greeneatz.com

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

A vegetarian site to argue about environmental damage meat does.......my bustout laugh for the morning.

 

[FSTO]

This is just the first one that came up but there are plenty of different sites with similar charts, beef is always near the top by a large margin. So you think that if people don’t have a freezer full of meat that they’re going to make a separate trip to the grocery store for every meal, just for meat, instead of getting it on their regular grocery trip? Ha!

Carbon Footprint of Food | Green Eatz

Carbon footprint ranking of food and tips on reducing your carbon footprint by cooking smartly, eating vegan and shopping wisely.

www.greeneatz.com

Do these charts take into account the amount of GHG to get those fresh veggies from S Cal or Mexico to your FreshCo in Toronto? Or the amount of land that is cultivated from grassland to cropland to grow all those veggies?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Do these charts take into account the amount of GHG to get those fresh veggies from S Cal or Mexico to your FreshCo in Toronto? Or the amount of land that is cultivated from grassland to cropland to grow all those veggies?

Don't forget water consumption for things like almonds and avocados.

 

[Lumber]

This is true because you say so?

Nope, big nope. Its alot more of a multiplier and cascading effect than you realize. I felt the pain myself.

One small example I went through
-I average 35-50 customers a year freezer meat orders (I make about 10-15G a year from this)
-Customers very satisfied with the product
-Summer is rolling around, my customers are mostly urbanites that travel 2-6 hours to get their orders (Yes that far)
-I ended up with 3 meat order customers
-I follow up with my other regulars as to what happened
-Example of some of the reasons
---Gas is too expensive to make the trip
---We can't afford meat anymore
---We have to choose between hydro, heat and food
---We can only afford to buy Costco sale beef
---I have to sell my house, can't afford anything
---Etc

I am but one example of many, many businesses that feel the pain of the carbon tax. You, yes YOU make all these assumptions that its other factors (there are a FEW not many), However you seem happy to offer up explanation after explanation. Your tone deaf. End story.

I am only touching the tip of the ice berg on Trudeau's carbon tax. Just about all of his policies are a colossal failure and waste of money. Everything they touch is a boondoggle and prime example of mismanagement. Printing new money doesn't help. Continious waste of public funds. Extra elections when he said he wouldn't do it. Never answering in parliament for his actions. How long of a list do I need to make?

The government should be doing what they can to enable Canadians, not further hinder them.

The ship is sinking with an incompetent Captain and too many people are making excuses for him. Enough.

Look, I'm only countering your insinuation that your friends are in the dire situation that they are (kids moving back in with parents) because of the Trudeau Liberal's incompetence and mismanagement. I would argue that there is nothing the Libs or the Cons could have done to prevent the situation we are in today. So all your points about the current government being incompetent don't matter unless they support your argument that it was the Trudeau Liberals that caused us to be in the situation we are currently in (which they don't).

You want the factors?

• The pandemic disrupted the various stages of the global supply chain, and the world economy has yet to fully recover;
• The 2 years of the pandemic slowed demand for oil drastically, and oil companies stopped drilling for new oil supplies, and slowed or stopped some refineries;
• The war in Ukraine lead to sanctions against Russia leading to decreases in the the supply of oil worldwide;
• OPEC cut oil production to keep oil prices at a certain level;
• Russia and Ukraine are, respectively, the first and fifth largest global exporters of wheat. The invasion of Ukraine caused uncertainty in global wheat markets, resulting in price volatility;
• The US is Canada’s top agricultural trading partner and major source for fresh and frozen fruit and vegetables. The worst drought in at least 1,200 years is occurring in the southwestern United States. These weather conditions have contributed to increased year-over-year prices for fresh vegetables and fresh fruit.
• Many of the above factors contributed to the increase in the price of input prices for finished foods, higher prices for fertilizers, etc.

The carbon tax had only a minor effect compared to all of these factors. Gas went up to $210/L this summer. How much of that was carbon tax? Oh wait, in Nova Scotia it was ZERO because we don't have a carbon tax (yet).

Look, there are LOTS of valid reasons to ne pissed off at Trudeau and his government, but the current state of the economy is not one of them, as you've aptly proven by your inability to provide one example of something he and his government have done that materially/substatially contributed to our current situation.

 

[Lumber]

I am but one example of many, many businesses that feel the pain of the carbon tax. You, yes YOU make all these assumptions that its other factors (there are a FEW not many), However you seem happy to offer up explanation after explanation. Your tone deaf. End story.

Follow-Up: What exactly do you even mean by me being "tone deaf"? You made an argument without adequately supporting it. I provided a counter argument and supported my counter-argument, and invited you to retort with actual support for your argument. You continued to not provide meaningful support to your argument. I'm not even arguing that Trudeau isn't an idiot. What part am I tone deaf about? If anything, you are tone deaf because you are letting your anger toward Trudeau blind you to objectivity.

 

[Lumber]

Do these charts take into account the amount of GHG to get those fresh veggies from S Cal or Mexico to your FreshCo in Toronto? Or the amount of land that is cultivated from grassland to cropland to grow all those veggies?

Don't forget water consumption for things like almonds and avocados.

Arguing over which style of eating/which foods we eat in terms of their environmental impact is almost pointless. It doesn't matter what we do; there are 8 billion of us, and ANY method of eating/diet is going to have a hugely negative impact on the planet, whether it be emissions of Green House Gasses or destruction of habitat.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Look, I'm only countering your insinuation that your friends are in the dire situation that they are (kids moving back in with parents) because of the Trudeau Liberal's incompetence and mismanagement. I would argue that there is nothing the Libs or the Cons could have done to prevent the situation we are in today. So all your points about the current government being incompetent don't matter unless they support your argument that it was the Trudeau Liberals that caused us to be in the situation we are currently in (which they don't).

You want the factors?

• The pandemic disrupted the various stages of the global supply chain, and the world economy has yet to fully recover;
• The 2 years of the pandemic slowed demand for oil drastically, and oil companies stopped drilling for new oil supplies, and slowed or stopped some refineries;
• The war in Ukraine lead to sanctions against Russia leading to decreases in the the supply of oil worldwide;
• OPEC cut oil production to keep oil prices at a certain level;
• Russia and Ukraine are, respectively, the first and fifth largest global exporters of wheat. The invasion of Ukraine caused uncertainty in global wheat markets, resulting in price volatility;
• The US is Canada’s top agricultural trading partner and major source for fresh and frozen fruit and vegetables. The worst drought in at least 1,200 years is occurring in the southwestern United States. These weather conditions have contributed to increased year-over-year prices for fresh vegetables and fresh fruit.
• Many of the above factors contributed to the increase in the price of input prices for finished foods, higher prices for fertilizers, etc.

The carbon tax had only a minor effect compared to all of these factors. Gas went up to $210/L this summer. How much of that was carbon tax? Oh wait, in Nova Scotia it was ZERO because we don't have a carbon tax (yet).

Look, there are LOTS of valid reasons to ne pissed off at Trudeau and his government, but the current state of the economy is not one of them, as you've aptly proven by your inability to provide one example of something he and his government have done that materially/substatially contributed to our current situation.

I think you may win more people over if you stop telling them that small increases should be ignored. You don't get to decide what 10 cents a liter means to anyone but yourself.

Let's also not forget were talking about an elected official who thinks/thought that budgets balance themselves.

JT and his gov could be enacting things like temporary tax reductions to ease the pain for people. For instance roughly 35% of the price per liter of gas in NS is Federal and provincial taxation. The feds could lead the way by reducing their share.