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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

But you have to look at the long term changes it made to the area. Long term traffic rerouting, access to Parliament Hill for the average person is now a questionable thing to do. Talking of making it more like the US Capitol district, more special police ( Parliament Hill already has a private police service now after the shooting there), road closures, might not be allowed to enjoy the park like setting of the Hill and area. It has made Ottawa and the various government departments rethinking long term access, and tourism enjoyment of the area, and how to restrict access .
There is a long term rebuilding plan for the so-called Precincts of Parliament which almost cry out for a pedestrian mall/occasional-use ceremonial route. The PPS is, in my opinion - but I'll likely agree whatever Brihard says, long overdue. I think that the City of Ottawa's responsibility ought to end in the South-East at about the point where Sparks Street joins the National War Memorial, and in the South West at the corner of Banks and Sparks Streets. The enlarged Precincts of Parliament should have very, very, very limited vehicle access (bicycles are vehicles) but free and easy access for pedestrians and should be policed by well armed, well trained Parliamentary Protective Service members backed up by the RCMP.
 
There is a long term rebuilding plan for the so-called Precincts of Parliament which almost cry out for a pedestrian mall/occasional-use ceremonial route. The PPS is, in my opinion - but I'll likely agree whatever Brihard says, long overdue. I think that the City of Ottawa's responsibility ought to end in the South-East at about the point where Sparks Street joins the National War Memorial, and in the South West at the corner of Banks and Sparks Streets. The enlarged Precincts of Parliament should have very, very, very limited vehicle access (bicycles are vehicles) but free and easy access for pedestrians and should be policed by well armed, well trained Parliamentary Protective Service members backed up by the RCMP.
This gets a bit tricky. PPS are best understood as security, not police. Some of them do totally routine screening work at entrances to Parliamentary buildings- as you know and others may not, Parliament’s facilities extend well beyond the hill. PPS also has a well trained and equipped response capability for something like an active shooter. If the bad day were to happen again, I’d be comfortable stacking up with them to hunt the threat. They do not have conventional peace officer status, however, and have no mandate to investigate or charge for offences. That’s an Ottawa Police problem. Say a normal assault happened on Parliament Hill- like anyone, they can intervene, but Ottawa Police would take the file.

I agree about Wellington going pedestrian/ceremonial between, say, Bank and Elgin, and down to Sparks. But unless RCMP were handed responsibility for conventional policing within that area, it would keep Ottawa as the police of jurisdiction. To me it makes no sense to revert to RCMP policing Parliament, and slightly expanded environs. They have different mandates, are on different and incompatible radios from OPS, have a different dispatch centre… An evolving criminal situation can move too fast across that patch of ground for it to be logical to create that divide for just a couple blocks. The US has major issues with jurisdictional balkanization. The problems we saw at convoy would not be fixed by giving RCMP responsibility for police of jurisdiction over a couple blocks. Any major public order event would stretch far beyond that anyway, and would still be (appropriately) an OPS problem.

What needs to happen is OPS needs to gets its shit together. The communication, intelligence sharing, and cooperation between OPS, OPP, and finally RCMP should all be relatively easily remediable. The necessary mechanisms already exist to swap intelligence and plan for events. This was, IMHO and based on what’s come out so far, primarily a command failure on the part of the police of jurisdiction. Maybe the swift change in posture and response after Sloly took his ball and went home is a positive indicator that, with competent command, OPS could recognize a threat and engage partners in a timely manner.

We’ll see. I don’t think the days of large crowds pissed at Trudeau and willing to be really dumb about it are over.
 
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What is needed is a big mall, and lots of other park-like spaces for people to assemble and gripe.
During the G20 (Huntsville) and G7 (Toronto) they had designated 'protest' areas set aside. I am sure this has been done in other jurisdictions. I both cases - crickets.
 
I recall a RCMP police attache at our embassy in Washington telling us how many law enforcement agencies there were in DC. I don't remember the number but it struck me as large, similar to the balkanization of law enforcement is much of the US. He said that if a drunk passed out on a sidewalk, which agency out of many that would arrest him depended largely on which way he fell.
 
You’ve been misinformed; this is incorrect info. The police didn’t shut down businesses because of the protests.
There are a few videos showing the Police closing businesses down in the area or risk being arrested. Ya they did shut down businesses who up until then were making decent money.
Further upthread there was discussion of this, including the 175 stores in the Rideau Centre mall being closed by mall management because they did not feel they could safely open.
That was a mall management choice to do so, they claim safety of their workers. Yet COVID spread wearing masks. They didn't protect you.
Many other downtown businesses were in the same boat.

Up until February 17th, police had only blocked the bare minimum necessary streets immediately surrounding the protest. In all the cases I saw when I visited the perimeter (though I didn’t see every bit of it), they closed the streets where they did because of you went further, you would be unable to then drive further because of the occupiers. E.g., MacKenzie was blocked southbound past Murray, because MacKenzie and Wellington, the next intersection, was blocked. Police, however, still allowed entry by those with lawful business, such as, in that case, vehicles going to the side parking and service entrance of the Chateau Laurier hotel. The ‘one block out’ road closures only impacted vehicles. Anyone of a mind to park outside the perimeter and walk the one block in to protest or visit a business was free to.
The Police were restricting access to the Hospital, by using detours that were not necessary. People blamed the protesters until the road blocks were recorded and put on the air. The Police modified the blocks when the truth came out.
The much larger exclusion zone wasn’t established until February 17th, three days after the EA proclamation, and the day before the clearance operation started. That served as an outer cordon to keep reinforcements away from the occupation while public order was being restored, but again, those not involved with the convoy who had lawful business in the exclusion zone were free to enter.

The entire protest was a crap sandwich, the protest should never have happened. The Feds should have either did real action to protect us from covid or did nothing. The fact that they hid behind their walls, poor planning and poor choices let us all know how incompetent they are.

When BC and Ab asked for International flights and borders to be shut down, the pm and his gang did nothing and stated they did not want any economic fall back . Instead they locked us down for a year and half with half butt measures that did not protect anyone besides their bank accounts. They forced a vaccine that wasn't even effective, the manufactures are even stating they said that. But drink the koolaid and keep JT and the gang in power, they will for sure ruin our country and economy in another year or two.
 
There are a few videos showing the Police closing businesses down in the area or risk being arrested. Ya they did shut down businesses who up until then were making decent money.

That was a mall management choice to do so, they claim safety of their workers. Yet COVID spread wearing masks. They didn't protect you.

The Police were restricting access to the Hospital, by using detours that were not necessary. People blamed the protesters until the road blocks were recorded and put on the air. The Police modified the blocks when the truth came out.


The entire protest was a crap sandwich, the protest should never have happened. The Feds should have either did real action to protect us from covid or did nothing. The fact that they hid behind their walls, poor planning and poor choices let us all know how incompetent they are.

When BC and Ab asked for International flights and borders to be shut down, the pm and his gang did nothing and stated they did not want any economic fall back . Instead they locked us down for a year and half with half butt measures that did not protect anyone besides their bank accounts. They forced a vaccine that wasn't even effective, the manufactures are even stating they said that. But drink the koolaid and keep JT and the gang in power, they will for sure ruin our country and economy in another year or two.
The only instances in which police were involved in closing businesses were a handful of instances in which businesses continued to operate in blatant violation of provincial mask or proof of vaccination mandates. That was incidental to the occupation and would have happened whether or not convoy happened.

Everything else you’ve said has either been previously addressed or isn’t related to my reply, so I’ll leave it at that. I’m under no illusion that I’ll change your clung-to beliefs that the convoy occupation of downtown Ottawa was righteous.

Meanwhile, for those keeping track, I remain unconvinced that the EA was necessary. Though I’m still open to the possibility, with what’s come out so far it’s gonna be an uphill battle for the federal government to convince me.
 
I recall a RCMP police attache at our embassy in Washington telling us how many law enforcement agencies there were in DC. I don't remember the number but it struck me as large, similar to the balkanization of law enforcement is much of the US. He said that if a drunk passed out on a sidewalk, which agency out of many that would arrest him depended largely on which way he fell.
I believe it’s 22.
 
The intelligence failure started when the convoy got going. I truly believe that everyone in Ottawa were convinced that the convoy would lose steam by the time it would cross the Ontario border, then Thunder Bay, then Sault St Marie, then for sure by Sudbury it would peter out.

But in typical Canadian fashion they all kept their heads in the sand until they were forced to deal with it. By then, any envoy attempt was doomed to fail.

When I passed the convoy on my way to Regina between Brandon and Virden and seeing all the cars and trucks lining the highway in support I knew in my bones that the people in Ottawa had no clue what was coming down the road.

Nobody covered themselves in any glory in this episode. Do I think we'll do any better if something similar happens again? I'm not very optimistic.
 
I’m under no illusion that I’ll change your clung-to beliefs that the convoy occupation of downtown Ottawa was righteous.

The police re-taking control of the streets was righteous.

All they care about was that the trash was finally taken out.


 
When BC and Ab asked for International flights and borders to be shut down, the pm and his gang did nothing and stated they did not want any economic fall back . Instead they locked us down for a year and half with half butt measures that did not protect anyone besides their bank accounts.
Wait... so on the one hand you're complaining about being locked down and then on the other hand you're complaining that the measures were only "half butt measures"? So you wanted a more firm lockdown? Stronger restrictions? Less freedoms?

They forced a vaccine that wasn't even effective, the manufactures are even stating they said that. But drink the koolaid and keep JT and the gang in power, they will for sure ruin our country and economy in another year or two.

Uhh, what Koolaid are YOU drinking? The vaccine was and always has been effective, and no one has ever said that it's not. The only thing that has ever changed is an assessment of how likely the vaccine was/is to prevent transmission of the disease; but, as a tool to help ensure positive outcomes for people in the pandemic writ large? That's never changed and it's always been very effective.
 
What is needed is a big mall, and lots of other park-like spaces for people to assemble and gripe.

If writing, phoning or visiting their local MP is not satisfying enough, that sounds like a good place for them to wrap themselves in their flags and chant their a$$es off.
 
Wait... so on the one hand you're complaining about being locked down and then on the other hand you're complaining that the measures were only "half butt measures"? So you wanted a more firm lockdown? Stronger restrictions? Less freedoms?
The fact that they did not a dam thing in the beginning showed either incompetence, stupidity or no clue. Then wham they hit the working class with harsh measures for a year and a half.
Uhh, what Koolaid are YOU drinking? The vaccine was and always has been effective, and no one has ever said that it's not. The only thing that has ever changed is an assessment of how likely the vaccine was/is to prevent transmission of the disease; but, as a tool to help ensure positive outcomes for people in the pandemic writ large? That's never changed and it's always been very effective.
Actually manufacturers like Pfizer have stated that it "may be effective" not that it was. Defining effectiveness is left to the imagination of the beholder.
Multimillion dollar company who gets multi hundred million dollar contract from friend JT. Yup it works. Yet many if not most caught the virus after getting vaccinated.

Those who did not get the vaccines caught the virus and had the same or very similar reactions as those who got the vaccine. Except they did not run the risk of enlarged hearts, breathing issues etc.
 
The intelligence failure started when the convoy got going. I truly believe that everyone in Ottawa were convinced that the convoy would lose steam by the time it would cross the Ontario border, then Thunder Bay, then Sault St Marie, then for sure by Sudbury it would peter out.

But in typical Canadian fashion they all kept their heads in the sand until they were forced to deal with it. By then, any envoy attempt was doomed to fail.

When I passed the convoy on my way to Regina between Brandon and Virden and seeing all the cars and trucks lining the highway in support I knew in my bones that the people in Ottawa had no clue what was coming down the road.
It is funny how Ottawa got it so wrong with their intelligence, yet out west they stated very clearly what they were doing and how long they were going to stay for.
Nobody covered themselves in any glory in this episode. Do I think we'll do any better if something similar happens again? I'm not very optimistic.
I think what really scared the government was that the" true blue collar worker" from coast to coast came together to support this protest. They raised a large sum of cash in a very short period of time. That raised suspicion, but in fact was average people tired of being locked down with no end in sight and no actual plan to stop.

There was lots of comments from certain groups about how these "fringe minority, racists bigots" could organize fund raise and get together so quickly. Ever see a farmer need help during harvest season. They all band together and get it done.

The West spoke, the East spoke, Central Canada spoke, Ottawa hid in the shadows trying to discredit, every person there. The truth is coming out, RCMP leadership lied, the OPP leadership lied, the OPS leadership was in turmoil prior to and into this event, the Ottawa City Council was in such a mess only could they survive in Ottawa. A total failure at all jurisdictions at the higher levels is what happened.

This vaccine mandates were the final straw for many Truckers who work the Dock yards, transport the goods and services we need on a daily basis. They figured the only way the government listens is during a protest. They new protesting in Vancouver misses Ottawa completely, so they went to Ottawa. Did you know the protest was actually started by a group of Sheikh truckers in BC.
 
Let's get one thing straight - the vaccine prevented severe outcomes. I do not recall any time where the doctors etc said you'd be immune. People will believe what they want to believe contrary to evidence. THAT included ingesting Ivermectin - a horse dewormer - to combat COVID.
 
Ivermectin in small doses has various uses for people, rather than "none". In larger doses it has a use for horses.

I suspect most people who thought it might help with COVID took it in small doses, which would not make it a "horse dewormer". Does the distinction matter? Yes, if we endeavour to be more honest. We don't claim that people who drink products containing ethanol are drinking automobile fuel.
 
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