Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Halifax Tar]

This is looking more like persecution than prosecution.

 

[Furniture]

The justices will render decisions that to the best of their knowledge will withstand legal scrutiny and challenge. Particularly as it pertains to the criminal charges, we’re only just starting to learn some of the additional material in the possession of investigators and already disclosed to crown and likely defense, which informs both the seriousness of the underlying offences and some of the perceived risk of reoffending.

If anyone wants to actually look through the decisions today or previously and argue the primary, secondary, and tertiary bail grounds, have at ‘er. So far I’ve not seen anything coming out of the courts that wasn't well reasoned and defensible.

It's entirely reasonable to expect that violent offenders who know how to play the system will get more lenient conditions that naïve non-violent offenders...

That's the entire principal that out system is built on really... Rapist? Murderer? You're good because you "played the bail game". Organized a protest that got out of hand, didn't understand the system? "Get back in cells!!!"

 

[Spencer100]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but that's because education is a provincial responsibility and so there are no national standards for it. Plus the fact that many provincial governments will cut education (as well as health care) spending as the first thing to try and cut costs . Why do we need a well educated (and healthy) population? Many provincial governments don't seem to think we do.

In all honesty healthcare have never been cut in the provinces. It raises every year. They do move money from different things. i.e. Building hositpals to nursing care to MRI's. Never cuts.. Same with education over the years.

 

[Spencer100]

Fair enough. I just hope you guys haven’t taken your eye off of those Extinction Rebellion knuckleheads. If you think they’re just a bunch of bong water drinking granola smokers, there’s a shock coming. There’s potential for some next level crazy with those guys.

They are an "approved" protestor.

 

[Navy_Pete]

It's entirely reasonable to expect that violent offenders who know how to play the system will get more lenient conditions that naïve non-violent offenders...

That's the entire principal that out system is built on really... Rapist? Murderer? You're good because you "played the bail game". Organized a protest that got out of hand, didn't understand the system? "Get back in cells!!!"

Big difference between not understanding and not flaunting restrictions. The instructions to stay away from a laundry list of people was pretty clear; having dinner with them and posting photos of it was just dumb.

At this point the level of ignorance seems to be deliberately cultivated.

 

[brihard]

In all honesty healthcare have never been cut in the provinces. It raises every year. They do move money from different things. i.e. Building hositpals to nursing care to MRI's. Never cuts.. Same with education over the years.

Willingly choosing to not keep up with rising demand and rising costs is a de facto cut. Statutorily restricting health care workers to 1% salary increases when there’s 6% inflation is an effective 5% pay cut. A growing population needs growing capacity. Not providing it means cutting service on an effective per capita basis.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Willingly choosing to not keep up with rising demand and rising costs is a de facto cut. Statutorily restricting health care workers to 1% salary increases when there’s 6% inflation is an effective 5% pay cut. A growing population needs growing capacity. Not providing it means cutting service on an effective per capita basis.

Robyn Urback is right.

 

[mariomike]

Willingly choosing to not keep up with rising demand and rising costs is a de facto cut.

Saw this line-up waiting to off-load their patients at a Guelph ER last week. Heaven knows how many more crews were waiting inside the "Hall of Shame."

Ontario hospitals are costing municipalities and taxpayers millions of dollars in paramedic down-time because they can't get their acts together.

Then they have the nerve to comeback to those same municipalities and taxpayers and ask for millions more for new equipment, expansions etc.

People wonder why 9-1-1 response times are so bad.

 

[McG]

In all honesty healthcare have never been cut in the provinces. It raises every year. They do move money from different things. i.e. Building hositpals to nursing care to MRI's. Never cuts.. Same with education over the years.

Canada trails other countries when it comes to the rate at which both our health spending and our life expectancies are increasing:

Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

Americans have a lower life expectancy than people in other rich countries despite paying much more for healthcare. What factors may explain this?

ourworldindata.org

Mind you, we are definitely doing better than the one substantial outlier ... which somehow is often held up as the model of what right could look like.

 

[brihard]

Saw this line-up waiting to off-load their patients at a Guelph ER last week. Heaven knows how many more crews were waiting inside the "Hall of Shame."

Ontario hospitals are costing municipalities and taxpayers millions of dollars in paramedic down-time because they can't get their acts together.

Then they have the nerve to comeback to those same municipalities and taxpayers and ask for millions more for new equipment, expansions etc.

People wonder why 9-1-1 response times are so bad.

I’m pretty regularly bringing a family member to the hospital for chemo, and we get a good view of the ambulance area and how many are waiting. Also got a cousin working for the city’s ambulance service, and another who just finished an ER residence as a doctor (and former paramedic). Lots of data points and anecdotes pointing to a massive problem in hospital capacity and patient ingestion and throughput.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Willingly choosing to not keep up with rising demand and rising costs is a de facto cut.

Yes. Who makes these willing choices? The CPC offered a 6% CHT (minimum) annual increase, no strings. (Back to Martin's "Fix for a Generation" - 10 years, extended by Harper for 2.) They were not elected.

Did people like their past tax cuts? Additional payments to families with children? Childcare? Proposed dental plan? Proposed pharma plan? All these cost money, as did all the small programs the LPC turned back on after Harper-era cuts.

People attempted quantitative analysis of life/quality during COVID, to demonstrate why the many should make sacrifices to help the few. What measure now of people dead, living with degraded quality of life, or waiting in pain/discomfort due to healthcare needs going unmet for months?

What tangible benefits (see above) or ideological markers will each voter forego to pursue improvements?

Pundits would have more credibility if they talked also about the kind of health care people with private insurance, or ability to pay, receive in the US.

Example. And this.

It's helpful that so many Canadians live close to the US border.

 

[brihard]

Yes. Who makes these willing choices? The CPC offered a 6% CHT (minimum) annual increase, no strings. (Back to Martin's "Fix for a Generation" - 10 years, extended by Harper for 2.) They were not elected.

Did people like their past tax cuts? Additional payments to families with children? Childcare? Proposed dental plan? Proposed pharma plan? All these cost money, as did all the small programs the LPC turned back on after Harper-era cuts.

People attempted quantitative analysis of life/quality during COVID, to demonstrate why the many should make sacrifices to help the few. What measure now of people dead, living with degraded quality of life, or waiting in pain/discomfort due to healthcare needs going unmet for months?

What tangible benefits (see above) or ideological markers will each voter forego to pursue improvements?

Pundits would have more credibility if they talked also about the kind of health care people with private insurance, or ability to pay, receive in the US.

Example. And this.

It's helpful that so many Canadians live close to the US border.

I was simply offering important context to the claim that ‘health care is never cut’.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, Vic PD needs a bunch of medals handed out for nailing the d%ckheads

Tickets issued after honking drivers cause disruption in downtown Victoria​

Police asked group of motorists to stop honking their horns. They complied, but later, some started honking again at a nearby location.


"They were circling the block, honking and using amplified speakers to target a particular business, said police, who did not identify the business.

These were the same drivers who had been given warnings. The officer started pulling them over to hand out tickets under the Motor Vehicle Act. The disruptive activity soon stopped, police said.


Two drivers received tickets carrying fines and penalty points. Details were not released.


“VicPD supports safe, peaceful and lawful protest. Dangerous and/or unsafe activity will continue to be met with de-escalation and enforcement.”


Earlier this year, the legislature was the scene of frequent protests, often anti-vaccine and anti-government, which included trucks and cars honking as they circled the block. Police eventually set up barricades prohibiting vehicles from entering the area."

Tickets issued after honking drivers cause disruption in downtown Victoria

Police asked group of motorists to stop honking their horns. They complied, but later, some started honking again at a nearby location.

www.timescolonist.com

 

[mariomike]

Meanwhile, Vic PD needs a bunch of medals handed out for nailing the d%ckheads

​

Neighbourhood should bake them a cake(s).

Something like the one painted by Norman Rockwell: "To the boys 17th Precinct police station".

 

[lenaitch]

Saw this line-up waiting to off-load their patients at a Guelph ER last week. Heaven knows how many more crews were waiting inside the "Hall of Shame."

Ontario hospitals are costing municipalities and taxpayers millions of dollars in paramedic down-time because they can't get their acts together.

Then they have the nerve to comeback to those same municipalities and taxpayers and ask for millions more for new equipment, expansions etc.

People wonder why 9-1-1 response times are so bad.

Well it just wouldn't be a meeting of at least two premiers without a bash session demanding more federal money for provincial programs. The fact that Ontario's premier recently jettisoned about $1Bn in vehicle registration revenue apparently has nothing to do with it. There is also an argument that Ottawa permanently transferred 'tax points' to provinces to allow them to increase revenue (on that I'll have to take the analysts word for it - it's beyond me).

There was a story a couple of days ago about some poor dude in Wiarton lying on a gurney for four days waiting for a bed at London for orthopedic surgery. At least they didn't close the ER on him and leave him it dark.

 

[mariomike]

Well it just wouldn't be a meeting of at least two premiers without a bash session demanding more federal money for provincial programs. The fact that Ontario's premier recently jettisoned about $1Bn in vehicle registration revenue apparently has nothing to do with it. There is also an argument that Ottawa permanently transferred 'tax points' to provinces to allow them to increase revenue (on that I'll have to take the analysts word for it - it's beyond me).

There was a story a couple of days ago about some poor dude in Wiarton lying on a gurney for four days waiting for a bed at London for orthopedic surgery. At least they didn't close the ER on him and leave him it dark.

Given the fact that the patients are the hospital's responsibility, the hospital can bring their own staff, from other departments if necessary, to care for patients, rather than deliberately tying up a resource which they don't pay for, and which needs to be elsewhere.

Perhaps the time has come to bill the hospital for for the entire cost of each off-load delay.

People may get distracted by the "freedom" rallies. But, I think they should focus their attention on what is happening in their local ERs - those that are still open.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I hear the usual crying that it's about money....its not, staff are just tapping out. Those that worked in any capacity through this are tired, those that stayed home and worked and/or collected CERB are finding they don't want to go back to a place of work.

Money doesn't fix that....

 

[Brad Sallows]

Well it just wouldn't be a meeting of at least two premiers without a bash session demanding more federal money for provincial programs.

Harper understood this, which is why he tended not to bother meeting with premiers other than one-on-one.

There is also an argument that Ottawa permanently transferred 'tax points' to provinces to allow them to increase revenue

Yes, the GST cut and the income tax cuts. Any tax cut by the federal government leaves room for provinces to increase taxes without, in principle, increasing their taxpayers' tax burdens. But what premiers prefer is for Ottawa to tax, and then make transfers to provinces.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Enact the Emergencies Act and order health care workers to work over time and don't let them quit. Threaten em with jail if they don't obey.

 

[mariomike]

If the ER delays a crew off-loading, send them a bill for the entire cost of each off-load delay.

That, or go on Critical Care Bypass ( CCB ), with an over-ride protocol.

Understand CCB and Re-direct Consideration ( RDC ) liability issues. ( Ref: Joshua Fleuelling inquest. )

Hospitals will accept all patients that meet the criteria of the CCB override protocol, regardless of their diversion status.