Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Brad Sallows]

What civics classes do you think exist in the public schools? When I went through, it was after everything was collapsed into "Social Studies". "How things work" is (or was) in there, but was just one topic among many, easily forgotten after retaining enough to pass the test.

 

[lenaitch]

From what little I know of them, the standing committees in both the US and GB seem workable, and perhaps born out of histories that have seen a steady diet of security threats. Ours seems rather toothless, or perhaps contemplative is the better word, and at the pleasure of the PMO. One would think that, if it was seen as dynamic and the in-House resource to consider all manners of national security, it would have been written into the Emergencies Act. If such a committee could report to Parliament and say 'we have seen the evidence and it is credible', and Parliament accepts it, we might have something. So long as parliamentarians expect to know, interpret and debate the evidence, there will be a problem. Parliament is ultimately accountable (actually, in the case of the Emergencies Act orders, it is Cabinet, the motion debates are just support), but they, and the parties, need to use and trust the institutions they have.

I can't imagine the likes of Cheryl Gallant or Randy Hillier (ok, provincial but still) given access to the launch codes.

 

[Remius]

Cheryl Gallant shouldn’t even be given luggage lock codes.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Security committees are worthless unless they play straight all the time. And playing straight will from time to time be inconvenient for at least one party. And since we don't have a history of grave international security threats, there is no institutional memory for playing straight against one's political interests. Even the US has problems with committees that leak damaging or fanciful information.

 

[Kilted]

They shouldn’t. Besides the Liberal senators aren’t part of the caucus anymore. Lol.

I wish the Senate would say no more often.

 

[Mick]

I'll just note that the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency does report to Parliament, and is intended to complement the work of the NSICOP.

As an independent agency reporting to Parliament, perhaps it may be seen to be less vulnerable to potential partisan abuse or political interference.

National Security and Intelligence Review Agency

Official Website

nsira-ossnr.gc.ca

 

[Kirkhill]

From what little I know of them, the standing committees in both the US and GB seem workable, and perhaps born out of histories that have seen a steady diet of security threats. Ours seems rather toothless, or perhaps contemplative is the better word, and at the pleasure of the PMO. One would think that, if it was seen as dynamic and the in-House resource to consider all manners of national security, it would have been written into the Emergencies Act. If such a committee could report to Parliament and say 'we have seen the evidence and it is credible', and Parliament accepts it, we might have something. So long as parliamentarians expect to know, interpret and debate the evidence, there will be a problem. Parliament is ultimately accountable (actually, in the case of the Emergencies Act orders, it is Cabinet, the motion debates are just support), but they, and the parties, need to use and trust the institutions they have.

I can't imagine the likes of Cheryl Gallant or Randy Hillier (ok, provincial but still) given access to the launch codes.

And as you have noted at least part of the problem ca ne resolved by the Commons and the Senate electing cross party members that all members consider honourable and trustworthy. And be entirely independent of the PMO.

 

[Remius]

I wish the Senate would say no more often.

I don’t think the senate should get in the way of government agenda but they should return bad legislation and things like unnecessary motions like the EA.

 

[Kilted]

What civics classes do you think exist in the public schools? When I went through, it was after everything was collapsed into "Social Studies". "How things work" is (or was) in there, but was just one topic among many, easily forgotten after retaining enough to pass the test.

I think that a lot of people have realized after this and over the course of the pandemic how little the population understands the law and how government works. People think we have this magic thing called the "Charter" which means that they can do whatever they want without consequences. A lot of people don't realize that Charter rights have limits. So many people rush to read s. 2, before they read s. 1. I really hope the provinces look into updating their curriculums.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I think that a lot of people have realized after this and over the course of the pandemic how little the population understands the law and how government works. People think we have this magic thing called the "Charter" which means that they can do whatever they want without consequences. A lot of people don't realize that Charter rights have limits. So many people rush to read s. 2, before they read s. 1. I really hope the provinces look into updating their curriculums.

I'm sure political reeducation is high on the priority list.

 

[Remius]

I think that a lot of people have realized after this and over the course of the pandemic how little the population understands the law and how government works. People think we have this magic thing called the "Charter" which means that they can do whatever they want without consequences. A lot of people don't realize that Charter rights have limits. So many people rush to read s. 2, before they read s. 1. I really hope the provinces look into updating their curriculums.

Part of the issue is people making crap up as well. As noted maybe the problem is a lack of education in civics but more so I think it’s a lack of properly teaching critical thinking and how to actually research something we might not understand.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Part of the issue is people making crap up as well. As noted maybe the problem is a lack of education in civics but more so I think it’s a lack of properly teaching critical thinking and how to actually research something we might not understand.

To me the big problem is people who cant delineate our government structure, electoral system, legislation and laws from the Americans.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think that a lot of people have realized after this and over the course of the pandemic how little the population understands the law and how government works. People think we have this magic thing called the "Charter" which means that they can do whatever they want without consequences. A lot of people don't realize that Charter rights have limits. So many people rush to read s. 2, before they read s. 1. I really hope the provinces look into updating their curriculums.

Ontario brought in a Grade 10 half-credit for Civics in the early 2000s, along with another half credit for Career Studies. I took both, and it was a great start to understanding how our system works and how it affected our day to day lives.

What was more beneficial was an elective course I took called "Canadian Law Studies." It helped further examine our legal system and how it related to the Charter, Parliament, the SCC, and what is involved in the Judicial process from cradle to grave. Even as a Senior NCO conducting a UDI, I have dusted off the ol' textbook at times.

I honestly think that if we put more emphasis on people learning Canadian Law and Civics, half of these yahoos would have sulked away to their basements 2 days into this thing.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There's also a lot of misunderstanding of the ways in which the US works differently than Canada.

Less important than educating the people to understand government, is educating government to not openly despise part of the people.

 

[Brad Sallows]

more emphasis on people learning Canadian Law and Civics

Educators pay a lot of lip service to the idea of "socializing" children (as in, preparing them to enter society as reasonable people). Obviously a solid grounding in how society works should be part of that. Not sure it's popular among educators, though.

 

[MilEME09]

Emergency Measures | When all else fails, invoke the Emergencies Act! | By This Hour Has 22 Minutes | Facebook

When all else fails, invoke the Emergencies Act!

fb.watch

 

[daftandbarmy]

There's also a lot of misunderstanding of the ways in which the US works differently than Canada.

Less important than educating the people to understand government, is educating government to not openly despise part of the people.

This sums it up nicely

“Canada is not the party. Its the apartment above the party.”

―Craig Ferguson

 

[Kirkhill]

Part of the issue is people making crap up as well. As noted maybe the problem is a lack of education in civics but more so I think it’s a lack of properly teaching critical thinking and how to actually research something we might not understand.

We were doing so well and then you had to go and spoil it all by saying that ..... Sorry wrong song. Anyway.

Civics.

Teach the rules of the game. End of.

Edit - well maybe not end of. Some lessons on how we got to these rules might be useful.

What to think about these rules? Absolutely off limits in the Civics class.

That debate can be had in a separate debating class with the instructor assigning positions and teams.

 

[Kilted]

To me the big problem is people who cant delineate our government structure, electoral system, legislation and laws from the Americans.

Maybe that starts with regulating how much American content can be aired in Canada, similar to how music is played. Although, things like Netflix would probably negate those efforts. Maybe if our media is going to focus on foreign countries it should be Westminster ones like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. I'm not saying that CANZUK would fix all our problems....

 

[Kirkhill]

Ontario brought in a Grade 10 half-credit for Civics in the early 2000s, along with another half credit for Career Studies. I took both, and it was a great start to understanding how our system works and how it affected our day to day lives.

What was more beneficial was an elective course I took called "Canadian Law Studies." It helped further examine our legal system and how it related to the Charter, Parliament, the SCC, and what is involved in the Judicial process from cradle to grave. Even as a Senior NCO conducting a UDI, I have dusted off the ol' textbook at times.

I honestly think that if we put more emphasis on people learning Canadian Law and Civics, half of these yahoos would have sulked away to their basements 2 days into this thing.

Right up until there.

I find yahoos in both the extra-parliamentary government and opposition parties. They both deserve the same leeway and the same right to be not just wrong but silly. They also deserve to be treated equally under the law without fear or favour. IE, the government should not take council of its fears and choose to favour one approach over another simply because they fear the consequences.

Caledonia, for example, and Ottawa should be managed identically

• 2006 Six Nations people occupy the Douglas Creek Estates (DCE) subdivision, renaming it Kanonhstaton (Mohawk for “The Protected Place”). It becomes one of the longest, most expensive and bitterest First Nations land occupations in Canadian history, marked by violent police raid and clashes between Six Nations people and Caledonians.
• Ontario buys the land from Henco Industries to cool tensions. The land remains in Ontario’s name held in trust.
• 2007-08 Canada, Ontario and Six Nations hold talks on the conflict. The traditional system, the Haudenosaunee Confederacy Chiefs Council (HCCC), leads the way.
• 2009 Talks sputter. The Six Nations reactivate their accounting claim, led by the elected council. A trial is scheduled for October 2022, the council says.
• 2013-14 Direct action, protests, blockades and occupations resume. The Confederacy constructs a large gate, emblazoned with purple and white Haudenosaunee flags across it, at the entrance to Kanonhstaton.
• Community consultation rejects McKenzie Meadows project. Elected council decides not to support it.
• 2015 McKenzie Meadows developer Foxgate Developments acquires land from a numbered company.

This concrete road block was one of many put in place in response to a police raid on the McKenzie Meadows land back occupation camp. Photo: Brett Forester/APTN

---

McKenzie Meadows dispute

• July 19, 2020 Six Nations members occupy a construction site at 1535 McKenzie Rd., renaming it 1492 Land Back Lane.
• The subdivision is across town but linked to Kanonhstaton through an hydro and pipeline easement access road.
• July 30 Foxgate Developments obtains an injunction ordering the camp dismantled.
• Aug. 5 The Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) enforce the injunction. Police use a taser and rubber bullets to clear the property and arrest nine people.
• Six Nations people respond with a tire fire and barricade outside the gates of Kanonhstaton. People shut down CN tracks and blockade the Highway 6 bypass.
• Aug. 7 Justice John Harper extends Foxgate’s injunction. He also grants an injunction to Haldimand County that orders the road blocks dismantled.
• Aug. 15 Confederacy chiefs publicly support the occupation.
• Aug. 19 Federal ministers Marc Miller and Carolyn Bennett offer to resume negotiations in a letter sent to traditional and elected chiefs.
• Aug. 21 The community dismantles most of the barricades. The Highway 6 bypass reopens. Trains start moving.
• People erect a support camp on Kanonhstaton, across the street from access road into McKenzie Meadows.
• Aug. 22 The last of the main blockade outside Kanonhstaton is removed.
• Aug. 25 Court extends both injunctions. Spokesperson for the action Skyler Williams is identified as a “protest leader” and named on the injunction.
• Sept. 16 Arrests continue. OPP release the names of 22 people charged in connection to the occupation or blockades.
• Oct. 9 Court extends injunctions again. A police affidavit says police are wary of removing camp occupants a second time, calling force “a blunt instrument that cannot resolve the issues underlying land disputes of this nature.”
• Harper gives Williams, who self-represents in court, an ultimatum: Dismantle the camp and be allowed to participate in future court hearings, or flout the order and be preventing from attending.