Fraternization during summer training

[condor888000]

Not in all cases. On power for example, my girlfriend was on course with me. We kept it professional when necessary, and when we had some downtime alone, well we enjoyed it. We kept it discrete, took my roomies 5 weeks to figure out what happened and the staff not until the day we left. In situations such as that, provided you keep it discrete, and are careful, the chances of anything unfortunate happening are quite low. Not non-existent, but low.

Now of course that's power. 17 cadets in the middle of the city with a mere 2 officers and no staff cadets. It is much harder to pull anything off at any other camp. And I personally think its a dumb idea, especially when people are "hooking up" to get a camp girl/boy friend. That honestly has to be one of the dumber things cadets can do...

 

[Armoured_Cadet]

this may be true. but i believe you are in the wrong topic.. haha. why is fratting such a problem?? its fun, whats wrong with fun?

Frat is a problem because it should be kept out of training hours and usually if the relationship is between a  senior and someone younger they tend to pick them as a favourite and that isn't right , but anyway your right back on topic.

 

[Armoured_Cadet]

It should be kept out of Cadet and any other professional institution, the reasons are clear and a lot of the time people do it is because it is breaking the rules. I myself have liked girls at camp but i keep it professional and focus on the course I'm taking, that's why I'm there not females. It clearly says in the CATO's that if you have a relationship with another cadet then you must tell your CO (at home corps), but at summer camp it should be avoided. Now having a girlfriend and keeping it quiet and not making a scene, that i still disagree with but it is the way to go if you are going to do it anyway. :tsktsk:

 

[D. Nicholson]

According to our officers, the rule has now changed that if you take or get an RTU (except in special cases) then you will not be allowed to return because you took a camp placement that somebody else could have filled. This just enforces the fact that if you go to camp, then you go for the entire duration. This rule has been implicated this year and I do not believe that if you were RTU'd last year, then it effects you this year. Only if you get RTU'd this year, then you are not allowed back (special cases excluded).

No such rule. May be LHQ based.

 

[condor888000]

Just because I have nothing better to do on a Tuesday night, here is a link to a PDF of CATP 25-05 Personal Relationships.

http://cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/2505_b.pdf

No where does it say that a cadet must inform their CO that they are in a relationship with another cadet. Well thats almost what it says. What it does say, is that if two cadets have a romantic relationship which COMPROMISES this CATO they must report it. As the CATO says that romantic relationships are permitted, provided they remain professional, it is not a far strech to say that you are only required to inform your CO if you are acting less that professinal. At which point, if you have to tell your CO, they might be a bit off the ball anyway.


Personally, you don't like what I did so be it. I sure don't regret it. We were going out for 6 months prior to power and were going out were another 6 months after. We just both happened to become pilots at the same time. Not gonna break up over that, and so, frat was the life.

What I don't understand is people who go to camp looking for a relationship. That just gets me scratching my head...

 

[CDN Zipperhead]

Personally, having gone through the whole military system (Cadets, Reserves, Regs, Cadet CI) everyone here is overlooking the fact that it happens at all levels, in all situations and at all times. It's basic human instinct (especially with teenage hormones). I've seen at camp as a cadet. I've seen it at MILCON in the mess tent after hours. I've seen it on BMQ with our "sister" platoon. I've seen it on every exercise and in Cyprus between the Sigs women and the rest of us (4 women, 800 guys). Part of the aims of the Cadet movement is to help the youngest kids (12 years) to mature into responsible, reliable, mature adults(19th birthday). Let the kids experiment, but under supervision of course. Cadets is not a military organization (I know its supported with public funds) its a youth organization. So what if two kids of different ranks makeout, good for them, they have someone to invest the feelings they have in.

Just so everyone knows I have a son and a daughter in camp(don't ask, I won't say which) this summer and I hope they find someone they can count as a "special" friend.

 

[geo]

( preferably not each other (JK) )

 

[Armoured_Cadet]

Just because I have nothing better to do on a Tuesday night, here is a link to a PDF of CATP 25-05 Personal Relationships.

http://cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/2505_b.pdf

No where does it say that a cadet must inform their CO that they are in a relationship with another cadet. Well thats almost what it says. What it does say, is that if two cadets have a romantic relationship which COMPROMISES this CATO they must report it. As the CATO says that romantic relationships are permitted, provided they remain professional, it is not a far strech to say that you are only required to inform your CO if you are acting less that professinal. At which point, if you have to tell your CO, they might be a bit off the ball anyway.


Personally, you don't like what I did so be it. I sure don't regret it. We were going out for 6 months prior to power and were going out were another 6 months after. We just both happened to become pilots at the same time. Not gonna break up over that, and so, frat was the life.

What I don't understand is people who go to camp looking for a relationship. That just gets me scratching my head...

Well im sorry i didn't mean to insult you, im stilla  guy to you know and i do admire what u did. And i correct myself with the issue of telling the CO it was report my mistake.

 

[Armoured_Cadet]

Also something ese i want to add i have to say no in my position as a Troop IC, and it does cause problems although i kinda break my rules as well sometimes had a girlfriend last summer at blackdown. But yeah this summer im going to D&C so i think a girlfriend would only cause problems (although if i meet someone well i have to live with it). I am probably going to get a lot of feedback about this post.

 

[condor888000]

Well im sorry i didn't mean to insult you,

None taken. Just felt like clearing it up.

Overall, thing to remember, is as CDN Zipperhead said, frat happens. You won't stop it. Have to live with it and hope no one does anything too stupid. And of course supervise to minimize the frat that does happen.

 

[Pea]

As a staff cadet for the basics a few years ago, I guess I was a bit naive towards frat. I didn't think it would go on with them like it does with the older cadets. I had a rude awakening when I was duty WO one night and decided to do a walk through the tents. I heard some noises coming from a female tent and decided to take a peek. I found, if memory serves me, 2 males and 2 females lacking clothing in that tent. I don't think I have been more shocked, furious and at the same time wanting to giggle at once. After dragging them all pretty much by the ears, wrapped in fire blankets, to the HQ and put in "interviewing rooms" I had a good laugh behind closed doors.

I think that was the day I realized kids will be kids. That is where the staff come in and need to monitor to make sure things don't get really out of hand. (like above) Imagine that phone call home to those 4 kids parents? "Hi Mr. Jones... Your 12 year old son Johnny was found naked in the female tent tonight...." If hands could come through the phone and strangle...

 

[Burrows]

this may be true. but i beleive you are in the wrong topic.. haha. why is fratting such a problem?? its fun, whats wrong with fun?

Timmy from Sudbury knocked up Jenny from Ottawa.....see anything wrong with that?

 

[geo]

PO Checklist "Birds & Bees 101" Check!

 

[qyrang]

Naaa.... there's no problem with that.....just the fact that Jenny's parents would be pissed and then turn into a huge problem. :threat: Let your imagination loose on figuring out what may happen....

 

[Michael OLeary]

Naaa.... there's no problem with that.....just the fact that Jenny's parents would be pissed and then turn into a huge problem. :threat: Let your imagination loose on figuring out what may happen....

So, in your view it only turns into a problem when "Jenny's" parents get "pissed"?

Do you have ANY idea what a life changing experience it is to have a child at such a young age?  For both parents?

Why don't you go ask your mother what would happen if you were the father of "Jenny's" baby.

 

[George Wallace]

Ah!  Shotgun toting father's sitting on the front porch, waiting for their daughters to come home with the catch of the __________

And people wonder why we have so many problems in our society with the Poor, Single Parents, Homeless, unemployable, etc. 

Have you ever heard of the Hatfield's and McCoy's and the lives they led?

 

[Krisz]

I believe there's already a thread on this...

But seeing as nobody's locked this one yet.


FRAT is only a problem if it's made into one, I think. I personally think Cadets who go to Camp expecting short-term romances are rather dumb... but if two people, say Tom and Jessica, have been going out for a couple months prior and then attend the Camp together, I see nothing wrong with them stealing the occasional kiss. So long as it's discreet, and isn't made into an overly big thing, why not? It's just a waste of the Officers' and Staff's time to have to break up every pair of Cadets that have a relationship.

So for those that do... keep it on the down low. But why even bother, especially since you're unlikely to ever see them again? Get a girlfriend/boyfriend back home if you're so desperate for one.

Cheers,
Krisz

 

[Michael OLeary]

FRAT is only a problem if it's made into one,

So, how exactly does it become a problem only because someone "made it one"?

When the staff follow regulations to stop it?
When the medical staff try to stop it because of an STD epidemic?
When parents want to know how little "Jenny" got knocked up at summer camp?

When, exactly, in your mind is the appropriate time to stop it?

 

[Krisz]

Sorry.

Perhaps I ought to have clarified.

- but if two people, say Tom and Jessica, have been going out for a couple months prior and then attend the Camp together, I see nothing wrong with them stealing the occasional kiss. So long as it's discreet, and isn't made into an overly big thing, why not?

When I say overly big thing, I mean anything more then perhaps the occasional gentlemanly, (or perhaps a wee bit roguish,) kiss. If it becomes any more then that, it's the appropriate time to stop it.

On making it a problem...  If the Staff are going to stop it, by all means, I say let them. But I think clarifiying it clears up my point - I apologize for not saying exactly what I meant. If little Jenny gets knocked up at Summer Camp, then by all means, there is defintely a problem there - Summer Camp is not a place for that sort of thing, it's a place where you go to learn and take home to your LHQ valuable knowledge that you can pass on to others.

Cheers, and apologies for the confusion,
Krisz

 

[Michael OLeary]

You are still supporting fraternization, but avoiding the issues of responsibility to define and enforce regulations. You have failed to address the question:

When, exactly, in your mind is the appropriate time to stop it?

How exactly do you explain this as "OK" to little Jenny's mother?:

...the occasional gentlemanly, (or perhaps a wee bit roguish,) kiss...