Foreign Workers: Political/Labour effects (split from 2024 UK rioting thread)

[Czech_pivo]

From reading this, similar arguments might be made here.

Federal government announces crackdown on ‘bad actors’ abusing the temporary foreign worker program​

Ottawa announces crackdown on ‘bad actors’ abusing the temporary foreign worker program

But advocates say Ottawa's promises fall short of protecting migrant workers from exploitation. “It's not about a few bad apples,” Chris Ramsaroop said. “The entire system is rotten to the

www.thestar.com

Employers were given the green light to hire 239,646 temporary foreign workers in 2023, according to data from ESDC — more than double the number in 2018 when 108,988 TFW positions were approved.

Its little wonder that unemployment of Canadian youths between the ages of 15-24 was 13.5% for the month of June, the highest September 2014 (youth unemployment is now higher than during the Pandemic).

The rate of unemployment among university/college students between semesters at school is at its highest level since 1998, StatCan said, as less than half (46.8 per cent) of this cohort found jobs this summer.

Canadian youth face the toughest summer job market in decades. Why? - National | Globalnews.ca

Canadian youth are facing one of the hardest summer job markets in decades. Here's why it's so hard to land that first job, and what young workers can do to stand out.

globalnews.ca

The information above is very similar to what's fueled the current situation in the UK - loss of jobs available to those already living in the country, rising numbers of foreigners/foreign workers/asylum seekers.

 

[Czech_pivo]

From reading this, similar arguments might be made here.

Federal government announces crackdown on ‘bad actors’ abusing the temporary foreign worker program​

Ottawa announces crackdown on ‘bad actors’ abusing the temporary foreign worker program

But advocates say Ottawa's promises fall short of protecting migrant workers from exploitation. “It's not about a few bad apples,” Chris Ramsaroop said. “The entire system is rotten to the

www.thestar.com

Employers were given the green light to hire 239,646 temporary foreign workers in 2023, according to data from ESDC — more than double the number in 2018 when 108,988 TFW positions were approved.

Its little wonder that unemployment of Canadian youths between the ages of 15-24 was 13.5% for the month of June, the highest September 2014 (youth unemployment is now higher than during the Pandemic).

The rate of unemployment among university/college students between semesters at school is at its highest level since 1998, StatCan said, as less than half (46.8 per cent) of this cohort found jobs this summer.

Canadian youth face the toughest summer job market in decades. Why? - National | Globalnews.ca

Canadian youth are facing one of the hardest summer job markets in decades. Here's why it's so hard to land that first job, and what young workers can do to stand out.

globalnews.ca

The information above is very similar to what's fueled the current situation in the UK - loss of jobs available to those already living in the country, rising numbers of foreigners/foreign workers/asylum seekers.

Another article nicely outlining the current youth unemployment for Canadians.

Cheap Foreign Labor Soars in Canada as Young Workers Are Left Jobless​

• Youth unemployment grows while foreign worker program explodes
• Share of retail, fast-food chains using temporary labor surges

Cheap Foreign Labor Soars in Canada as Young Workers Are Left Jobless

It’s getting harder for young Canadians to find a job. A post-pandemic influx of cheap foreign workers in restaurants and retail stores may be making it tougher.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[dimsum]

Another article nicely outlining the current youth unemployment for Canadians.

Cheap Foreign Labor Soars in Canada as Young Workers Are Left Jobless​

• Youth unemployment grows while foreign worker program explodes
• Share of retail, fast-food chains using temporary labor surges

Cheap Foreign Labor Soars in Canada as Young Workers Are Left Jobless

It’s getting harder for young Canadians to find a job. A post-pandemic influx of cheap foreign workers in restaurants and retail stores may be making it tougher.

www.bloomberg.com

I was just in downtown Toronto for over a week and saw quite a few “help wanted” signs. Those would normally be the places that young workers would be starting at.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was just in downtown Toronto for over a week and saw quite a few “help wanted” signs. Those would normally be the places that young workers would be starting at.

Was really hard for youth to get jobs here in North Van for the summer. I suspect the new minimum wage plays a part. Plus a lot of the fast food joints are now run by East Indians here, and they will hire their own first.

 

[Good2Golf]

I was just in downtown Toronto for over a week and saw quite a few “help wanted” signs. Those would normally be the places that young workers would be starting at.

A fellow I was chatting with recently mentioned this very thing…then noted that maybe the lines ups will start “once all the CERB overpayment cash runs out…”

A bit of a stretch, but may have some element of truth to it, via a vis selectivity of employment opportunities by some…

 

[Haggis]

Another article nicely outlining the current youth unemployment for Canadians.

Cheap Foreign Labor Soars in Canada as Young Workers Are Left Jobless​

• Youth unemployment grows while foreign worker program explodes
• Share of retail, fast-food chains using temporary labor surges

Cheap Foreign Labor Soars in Canada as Young Workers Are Left Jobless

It’s getting harder for young Canadians to find a job. A post-pandemic influx of cheap foreign workers in restaurants and retail stores may be making it tougher.

www.bloomberg.com

I call partial bullcrap on this.

I was driving home after two OT shifts last week. My commute straddles the QC/ON border. Every single fast food joint I went to on both sides of the border had a "closed" sign in the drive through. The reason - lack of staff is what I was told by the managers on duty in the two places I walked into.

A landscape contractor friend of mine had to hire TFWs to meet his summer workload. No local kids applied for the jobs.

Another general contractor I know says some local kids only stick around for a couple of weeks then quit.

Two sides to every story.

 

[Booter]

I call partial bullcrap on this.

I was driving home after two OT shifts last week. My commute straddles the QC/ON border. Every single fast food joint I went to on both sides of the border had a "closed" sign in the drive through. The reason - lack of staff is what I was told by the managers on duty in the two places I walked into.

A landscape contractor friend of mine had to hire TFWs to meet his summer workload. No local kids applied for the jobs.

Another general contractor I know says some local kids only stick around for a couple of weeks then quit.

Two sides to every story.

My daughter has dropped off resumes on a weekly basis for months. No returns on any part time work for a high school student. Which is fine. I want her concentrating on her boxing but it’s mildly concerning.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I call partial bullcrap on this.

I was driving home after two OT shifts last week. My commute straddles the QC/ON border. Every single fast food joint I went to on both sides of the border had a "closed" sign in the drive through. The reason - lack of staff is what I was told by the managers on duty in the two places I walked into.

A landscape contractor friend of mine had to hire TFWs to meet his summer workload. No local kids applied for the jobs.

Another general contractor I know says some local kids only stick around for a couple of weeks then quit.

Two sides to every story.

Looks like at least three drivers...

Why are so many Canadian youth unemployed?​

Economist points to deteriorating business sentiment, immigration, part-time work

“Many organizations are opting for part-time offerings instead of full-time,” he said. “People who have more experience are getting a second part-time job [and] are knocking out youth who are looking for their first job or a summer job because the employers are opting to give it to people with more experience.”

Why are so many Canadian youth unemployed?

Economist points to deteriorating business sentiment, immigration, part-time work

www.hrreporter.com

 

[foresterab]

I call partial bullcrap on this.

I was driving home after two OT shifts last week. My commute straddles the QC/ON border. Every single fast food joint I went to on both sides of the border had a "closed" sign in the drive through. The reason - lack of staff is what I was told by the managers on duty in the two places I walked into.

A landscape contractor friend of mine had to hire TFWs to meet his summer workload. No local kids applied for the jobs.

Another general contractor I know says some local kids only stick around for a couple of weeks then quit.

Two sides to every story.

I get that there are lots of kids not applying...or don't know how to apply well. Showing up with no resume, no tickets, a restrictive schedule for when you can work and demanding high wages...doesn't work.

But then I look at the 18 year old nephew who took a job at Walmart because they were the only one hiring....went and got all the standard safety tickets, busted his butt trying to find something else that offered either more hours than 25 hours a week or higher than minimum wage....5 months of searching in a town with lots of "help wanted" all over. He's not Filipino, not a 3rd year tradesman and doesn't have 20 years driving experience.
Luckily he starts next week as a swamper for a trucking outfit. Doesn't know the hours or wages yet but he knows he's still ahead from where he was.

There are lots of employers that are jerking folks around...and there are decent jobs for those willing to work. The challenge is making the contacts with the decent employers and the avenues of my youth - church, youth groups, etc. are basically gone with internet social networks replacing them. There's always been family ties and cultural ties whenever folks looked for work.

 

[lenaitch]

We don't live in one of the major urban centres that the media likes to focus on (North Bay ON) but just about every employee at a fast food restaurant, gas station/c-store, box store and courier up here is South Asian. I don't know if they are TFW, students or what (we do have a university and college, as well as a private college). I was completely unaware that the area had such a large South Asian community.

I don't know what is chicken and what is egg; are they the only ones willing to put up with the hours and wages? Are they displacing others? Is a large chunk of the local 'white' similar age group on the street between opioid hits? Where we used to live closer to Toronto, a new chain fast food restaurant opened and the franchisee was South Asian. Every employee save for one was South Asian (and it was a very 'white bread' town). I've noticed a lot of the franchisees in other sectors are South Asian. I suspect there is a lot of 'hire your own' going on; which we 'white folk' were just as guilty of back in the day I suppose. I get the sense that a lot of 'your own' includes extended family.

 

[RangerRay]

I can only go by my observations, specifically in the early and mid 2000’s in northeastern BC.

At that time, there was an oil boom. In order to keep any labour, the fast food restaurants in town had to increase wages well above minimum wage and offer benefits to employees. Most fast food workers were white kids and adults who couldn’t or wouldn’t go to the oil field. Most people in town were white with some indigenous. There were more Africans there than I would have thought but they were there for the oil and gas companies. They may have been TFWs that had skills in low supply here.

I left in 2006 and I came back a couple years later for a visit and the difference was stark. The restaurants were fully staffed with Philippinos and South Asians. Not a single white kid to be seen. Add to that the O&G started to go into a downturn at that time. I think this was shortly after the government made it easier for companies to hire unskilled TFWs. I’m not sure how they were living in that high housing market at that time, but I’m sure they weren’t making more than minimum wage like the workers before them.

If the TFW program ended and employers were forced to raise their wages to attract labour, would Canadian-born workers with low skills go to those jobs, or would they now be viewed as undesirable “immigrant” jobs?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Speaking of TFW's, this from the U.N. ....

Canada's foreign worker program a 'breeding ground for contemporary slavery,' says UN report

Canada's Temporary Foreign Worker Program serves as a 'breeding ground for contemporary slavery,' according to a scathing UN report examining Canada's efforts to limit unfair labour.

www.ctvnews.ca

... with more than a bit of UN-speak in it (full report attached)

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I get that there are lots of kids not applying...or don't know how to apply well. Showing up with no resume, no tickets, a restrictive schedule for when you can work and demanding high wages...doesn't work.

But then I look at the 18 year old nephew who took a job at Walmart because they were the only one hiring....went and got all the standard safety tickets, busted his butt trying to find something else that offered either more hours than 25 hours a week or higher than minimum wage....5 months of searching in a town with lots of "help wanted" all over. He's not Filipino, not a 3rd year tradesman and doesn't have 20 years driving experience.
Luckily he starts next week as a swamper for a trucking outfit. Doesn't know the hours or wages yet but he knows he's still ahead from where he was.

There are lots of employers that are jerking folks around...and there are decent jobs for those willing to work. The challenge is making the contacts with the decent employers and the avenues of my youth - church, youth groups, etc. are basically gone with internet social networks replacing them. There's always been family ties and cultural ties whenever folks looked for work.

Just curious but what is a "swamper?"

 

[Brad Sallows]

If the TFW program ended and employers were forced to raise their wages to attract labour, would Canadian-born workers with low skills go to those jobs, or would they now be viewed as undesirable “immigrant” jobs?

The crux of the biscuit. The notion that "immigrants do jobs locals won't do" is inseparable from the side-effect that it amounts to a way to keep wages down. The idea that we should be attracting immigrants to achieve this is contemptible, regardless of the fact that in most cases it's easy to show that the immigrants' position has improved (better than life in the old country, even if short by Canadian standards). Labour scarcity tends to exert upward pressure on wages and benefits. Those are costs which will have to be passed on to consumers.

At the same time, life on the dole has to generally and noticeably be less comfortable than life off of it.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Just curious but what is a "swamper?"

General dogs body in an oil and gas yard/rig. Called that because a lot of their time is power washing the inside of water trucks, etc.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The crux of the biscuit. The notion that "immigrants do jobs locals won't do" is inseparable from the side-effect that it amounts to a way to keep wages down. The idea that we should be attracting immigrants to achieve this is contemptible, regardless of the fact that in most cases it's easy to show that the immigrants' position has improved (better than life in the old country, even if short by Canadian standards). Labour scarcity tends to exert upward pressure on wages and benefits. Those are costs which will have to be passed on to consumers.

At the same time, life on the dole has to generally and noticeably be less comfortable than life off of it.

As Canadians are aging out of the workforce at an increasingly alarming rate, the main issue is a declining population of employable 'locals'. There are not enough people to do the work, and there won't be a sudden emergence of AI at a rate that will take up the slack, hence the need for immigrants, and we're lucky to have them ...

Temporary foreign workers and international students have become an integral part of the labour force​

Canada is increasingly reliant on temporary foreign workers (TFWs) to fill labour shortage gaps. The number of TFWs (work permit holders on December 31 in each year) increased seven-fold from 111,000 in 2000 to 777,000 in 2021. The share of TFWs among all workers with T4 earnings rose from 2% in 2010 to 4% in 2019, and was particularly high in some of the lower-skilled sectors in 2019, such as agriculture (15%); accommodation and food services (10%); and administrative and support, waste management and remediation services (10%). TFWs were also overrepresented in some higher-skilled industries, such as professional, scientific, and technical services sector (6%); and information and cultural industries (5%).

The Daily — Immigration as a source of labour supply

Immigration has always been the driving force behind Canada's labour supply. But with job vacancies in late 2021 80% higher than before the COVID-19 pandemic and the working age population aging, high levels of immigration will be even more critical to the labour market.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

 

[dapaterson]

Canada can't rely on a steady stream of folks escaping North Dakota to provide underground labour on farms. The TFW program helps farms suppress labour costs and avoid developing mechanical solutions. Its expansion to suppress wages in urban areas as well is something government may make statements about, but will not likely address.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I wonder if all the businesses with help wanted signs that don’t ever seem to hire are just going through the motions of “look we tried, nobody applied (wink, wink)” so that they can then go down the TFW route?

 

[foresterab]

I wonder if all the businesses with help wanted signs that don’t ever seem to hire are just going through the motions of “look we tried, nobody applied (wink, wink)” so that they can then go down the TFW route?

There is some of that...look at how many "ads" are in small print but don't have details...run it for a couple of weeks and all of a sudden nobody applied so TFW

Then there are the games some larger operations are running....hire for one -> TFW -> move to a second location due to X reason.

I understand the need to get specialized knowledge. I don't see the need for waitresses, cashiers, and line cooks especially when you're laying off locals or not hiring them. And frankly...if a person can't live on the wage you're paying - based upon the single job you're offering (not working 3x jobs) - then maybe it's time to raise wages and/or costs instead of depressing your local economy and then wondering why nobody is going to your restaurant/business.

 

[dimsum]

And frankly...if a person can't live on the wage you're paying - based upon the single job you're offering (not working 3x jobs) - then maybe it's time to raise wages and/or costs instead of depressing your local economy and then wondering why nobody is going to your restaurant/business.

Add tipping culture to that too.

Yeah, tips means that you could make a ton more money than you would normally get. It also means that businesses can underpay claiming that tips will make up the difference.

The problem is what happens if a night is super slow and you end up losing money due to lack of tips?