Foreign Medals Regulations

[rocky1fac]

Haggis,

    Is correct! Just what I said. I was talking about the award how many are nominated and what happens in the filter process is not what I was talking avout. One award per incindent! Just because we have done it for the past 20 years does not make it right. Which is the jist of my point. 

The ref for the comment is the book we only have one. It is the chapter on Honours and awards I forget the new designation for QR&O but that one.

The only other reference I have is personnel experience from the handfull of medals I have written up for my soldiers.

 

[dutchie]

Uhhh, rocky, Haggis most certainly did not confirm what you have been stating. You keep contending that only one guy gets a medal, no matter how many participated in the event. Everyone else keeps telling you that you are wrong. You are confusing 'one medal per man' and 'one medal per incident'.

To make it simple:

Johhny and Frank rush a machine gun position under intense fire, on their own initiative. Johhny and Frank can both recieve medals, but only one each. That is, they both can recieve the VC, but they only get one each. They cannot receive the VC in addition to another medal for the same incident. If they receive nominations for more than one medal (say the VC and the DCM) then some officer will decide which one (if any) they each get.

Clear?

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

"No", I told myself, "don't post there!   Nothing good can come of it!"

Alas, I find myself posting against my better judgement.

The ref for the comment is the book we only have one. It is the chapter on Honours and awards I forget the new designation for QR&O but that one.

The only other reference I have is personnel experience from the handfull of medals I have written up for my soldiers.

References:   QR&O Chapter 18 (Honours), CFAO 18-4 (Recommendations for Honours), CFAO 18-15 (Bravery Decorations), CFAO 18-20 (Military Valour Decorations),

Nothing in the regulations directs limitations on the number of awards that can be made for a single incident or action (military or civilian).   History is replete with examples of multiple awards for single incidents.   Our honours system mirrors (to some extent) that of the British;   Rorke's Drift, Zeebrugge, Lucknow, and innumerable others are examples of multiple awards.   For a current Canadian example, see:  

http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=e&DocID=4464

And note the number of people receiving the Medal of Bravery for the same incident.


TR

 

[Haggis]

Uhhh, rocky, Haggis most certainly did not confirm what you have been stating. You keep contending that only one guy gets a medal, no matter how many participated in the event. Everyone else keeps telling you that you are wrong. You are confusing 'one medal per man' and 'one medal per incident'.

True.  I did not provide substantiation.  I provided CLARIFICATION.

Caesar: Good example.  Thanks.  I was suffereing analogy paralysis at the time of my post.

 

[bLUE fOX]

Sorry it took so long to respond. I would like to thank those who posted in responce to my post. The information was most appreciated

 

[c4th]

The ref for the comment is the book we only have one. It is the chapter on Honours and awards I forget the new designation for QR&O but that one.

The 'new' designation for QR&O's is QR&O's.  I know, it's tough to keep up.

If you are speaking of QR&O Vol 1, Chapter 18 then no, it does not state that only one medal may be awarded to one individual for one incident.  See

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol1/ch018_e.asp#18.05

Also worth reading is CFAO 18-15.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/018-15_e.asp 

The terms of recommendation clearly allow for the possibility of more than one participant. 

Honours and awards are amplified by: A-AD-200-000/AG-000.  Nowhere in that document does it state one medal per individual, per incident.

Further, the one per one per one seems to fly in the face of tradition.  There was a small action on 22 Jan 1879 where 11 VC's were awarded for the same incident.  I have three friends with MB's.  Two received them for the same incident, and the third received his along with three of his comrades for the same incident.  Of note, the later was presented his MB on 25 June 2004.  On that day 35 persons involved in only 23 separate incidents received awards for gallantry. 

Certainly the Canadian Decorations Advisory Committee who advise the PM and GG could be wrong, and may have been continually wrong since 1972 when Canada adopted it's current system of honours.  But I would wager they have the terms of reference closer at hand then you.  I also suggest the "it's somewhere in something like QR&O's" is not a sufficiently precise reference for any debate here.

 

[Young KH]

There seems to be only one truth here as in most arguments about medals and awards and that is.

There is always someone who will Poo Poo medals and they are usually the ones that don't have one or don't want others to have one. Either way they think that it diminishes their accomplishments. To them the only true and completely deserved medals and awards are the ones that they have and everyone else are Brown Nosers, have Horse shoes up their a**, or lied on the application.

All medals and awards are important and rightly so as it is little enough reward for what soldiers are prepaired to give up for their Countries or that of others. The sooner we all realize that the better. One posting or another, makes no never mind, Soldiers are always on the front line and dressed as targets.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ken,

I think the shrinks call it "penis envy"

 

[Young KH]

Or maybe just too much Testosterone and they haven't had a chance to kill something yet today.

 

[aussiechangover]

I apologize if this topic has been covered before I've searched through various versions of the subject but didn't manage to find exactly what I was after although there was a reference to CFAO 18-6 and not sure that it's still valid and would like clarification on this.

I needed some assistance with references as due to an administrative error while I was in PAT a memo that I submitted didn't make it. If someone happens to know the references for wearing of foreign awards and decorations (submariner) it would be much appreciated. I searched the forums and  there was a mention of CFAO 18-6 and I had another reference but I believe it has been long since deleted. It was A-AD-200-000/AG-000 chapter 2 para 34. The reason I'm asking is that I probably will have to prepare a memo before returning to work and to make sure that I go there will all correct references.

 

[meni0n]

I just checked and A-AD-200-000/AG-000  still looks like a valid publication so you can just cite that in the memo.

 

[aussiechangover]

cheers.. any news on the course yet? you must be hanging out to get the word

 

[meni0n]

I`m hoping for July but realistically it will probably be jan-feb.

 

[aussiechangover]

well i return to work tomorrow hopefully i'll be on my 5's when your in kingston then

 

[armyvern]

I just checked and A-AD-200-000/AG-000  still looks like a valid publication so you can just cite that in the memo.

Yep, according to the DHH site, the pub is still vaild.

Ref for his memo would be: CFP 200, Chap. 2, Sec. 1, para 34-35.

34. A member who was awarded an order, decoration or medal by a foreign power prior to enrolment may be granted approval to wear the insignia and ribbon while in uniform. To obtain approval the member shall submit a written request to the member's commanding officer (CO), accompanied by documentary proof of the award. The CO shall forward the request  with the original or photocopy of the documentary proof, through normal channels, to NDHQ/DHH.

35. If a member is granted authority to wear a foreign award, a copy of the authority shall be filed on the Unit Personnel Record and the NDHQ personal document file.

Let us know how you make out aussiechangover. Bonne chance. 

 

[aussiechangover]

cheers for the clarification will submit it soon and see how I make out with it all..

I've checked through the pubs and must  be missing something as it says the reference is deleted from the DHH website. ArmyVern is you could message me the link you have it would be much appreciated. Even if i have to submit a letter so I can wear them on a parade in the next few weeks.

 

[dimsum]

To bump this topic:

Is CFAO 18-6 still valid for CF members being awarded foreign service medals while on OUTCAN?  I will be receiving deployment medals but am not totally sure how to go about asking for Canadian approval to wear them.

The para I'm asking about is this:

6.      A member who was awarded an order, decoration or medal by a foreign
power prior to enrolment may be granted approval to wear the insignia and
ribbon while in uniform. To obtain approval the member shall submit a
written request to the member's commanding officer (CO), accompanied by
documentary proof of the award. The CO shall forward the request with the
original or photocopy of the documentary proof, through normal channels, to
NDHQ/DC.


I don't have access to DWAN and with my Canadian chain either on ex or on leave, it's been a little hit and miss getting a hold of them.  Thanks!

 

[cupper]

Not sure if these may help or not.

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/93583/post-930552.html#msg930552

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/18494/post-664591.html#msg664591

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/84/post-805.html#msg805

Most of what has been posted is related to people who have been awarded medals or qualifications from service in a foreign military, and then subsequently joined the CF, looking for info on how to go about putting up the awards.

If I understand your situation, you are receiving and award while being attached down under, so they may or may not be relevant to your situation.

Congrats by the way

Found this which may be useful:

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/faq/index-eng.asp#q6

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/faq/index-eng.asp#q11

 

[dimsum]

Most of what has been posted is related to people who have been awarded medals or qualifications from service in a foreign military, and then subsequently joined the CF, looking for info on how to go about putting up the awards.

If I understand your situation, you are receiving and award while being attached down under, so they may or may not be relevant to your situation.

Congrats by the way

Thanks, I'll look through those threads.  I'm on deployment with the ADF in a third location, so I'll be getting the ADF's medals for that deployment.  It's not a meritorious award/honour, so no need for the congrats. 

 

[Journeyman]

Wear them below the CD in precedence.

If it's good enough for Uncle Walt.....

If someone insists that it's not allowed, let them do the Dress Regs search to prove it.




Also, having been granted authority in the first sentence here, you can also claim that you read it on Milnet.ca....the same place that autistic and/or psychotic paraplegics go for authority to join the CF as JTF2 fighter pilots.  :nod: