Force Protection failure in Greece: RCN ship vandalized

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505298830379601926

NST had provided security the last time an HMC ship was in that port. Apparently no measures in place this time around.

Facebook comment from a former NST NCO:

''Lots of silly comments from people who think they know all about Force Protection. First, when we stood up NST in the exact same port we had two check points and a guarded gate with spike strips and Greek police manning those gates. Second, you would never open fire on people especially if the threat triangle isn't complete. Not sure how they got so close to the ship with the normal security measures in place, but it happened and it was only paint. However, this is exactly why you secure the jetty prior to a ship coming alongside using CAF and local authorities. De-escalate as best as possible and then use non-lethal force such as your fire hoses rigged on the upper decks.......trust me, they will stop someone

.....ask ST....lol.''

Some context from a more friendly Greek:

''Alright... As a Greek-Canadian (served both in the Greek and Canadian army) I would like to apologize. Those guys are fuckin morons and stupid as fuck!
In 1932 Russia would give huge amounts of money(in other words fund) KKE(those fucking cunts who thru the paint), So one day they would "rule" Greece. The Greek army didn't let that happen and thru a lot of them in the jail.. So since then they can't stand the sight of any military uniform. Whenever they see anything that has to do with military they throw paint cans.
Sorry for my bad English!''

 

[daftandbarmy]

My concern is that the situation drastically changed in the last 30 days - and it seems to me, like the RCN has more of less ignored that.
Agin my point is that Security needs to be a stand alone primary task - as a secondary duty on a warship means they most likely will be doing primary functions when being a warship...

I suggest hanging this photo of the 'Cole Hole' in the Ops Room of our warships.

Maybe it'll remind people about what can happen when other people don't like us which, given our support for Ukraine, might be numbered in the millions these days.

USS Cole bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TacticalTea]

I suggest hanging this photo of the 'Cole Hole' in the Ops Room of our warships.

Maybe it'll remind people about what can happen when other people don't like us which, given our support for Ukraine, might be numbered in the millions these days.


View attachment 69605

USS Cole bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

100%.

I talk about it every time I get the chance.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I suggest hanging this photo of the 'Cole Hole' in the Ops Room of our warships.

Maybe it'll remind people about what can happen when other people don't like us which, given our support for Ukraine, might be numbered in the millions these days.


View attachment 69605

USS Cole bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So would that mean wifi isn't the biggest priority, and we should maybe follow basic commercial rules (if we can't follow our own) for things like wall coverings? Not sure if anyone notices, but usually when there are PR photos of ships the lounges and COs cabin have floor to ceiling plywood paneling and a lot of wood trim, like some kind of 16th century Lord's hunting lodge..

 

[WestIsle]

Seems like the RCN needs something like this

Deployable Specialized Forces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Checks off all the boxes including enforcement teams, port security, as well as shoreside security. The goal with the navy reserves seems to already cover off this partially. But maybe we should just let the Navy continue to live out their dreams larping as SF while they can't crew or protect their own ships.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Seems like the RCN needs something like this

Deployable Specialized Forces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Checks off all the boxes including enforcement teams, port security, as well as shoreside security. The goal with the navy reserves seems to already cover off this partially. But maybe we should just let the Navy continue to live out their dreams larping as SF while they can't crew or protect their own ships.

Could be a dedicated role for NAVRES.

Let the Reg Force do the sailing and they can minor in augmenting the fleets with an major role in expeditionary harbour security and force protection.

 

[TacticalTea]

Could be a dedicated role for NAVRES.

Let the Reg Force do the sailing and they can minor in augmenting the fleets with an major role in expeditionary harbour security and force protection.

It was on the way out when I joined but, that used to be the case.

Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, highlighting NavRes tasks circa 2003

NST is definitely an approximate return to that. Plus, NavRes isn't burdened with running the Patrol squadrons (MCDVs) anymore, so I suspect there is room for it to take on a greater share of that role.

 

[GK .Dundas]

QUOTE="daftandbarmy, post: 1731063, member: 21227"]
I suggest hanging this photo of the 'Cole Hole' in the Ops Room of our warships.

Maybe it'll remind people about what can happen when other people don't like us which, given our support for Ukraine, might be numbered in the millions these days.


View attachment 69605

USS Cole bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

[/QUOTE]
But,but everybody loves Canada! You're making stuff up ! Someone make him stop saying mean things.
Sadly you will have to contend with the above attitude and from a large number of people who should know better.
Including I am both sorry and simultaneously annoyed to say within the Canadian profession of arms .

 

[GK .Dundas]

Btw has anybody seen anything at all on the major news stations ?

 

[btrudy]

Honestly, the reaction in this thread to what amounts to petty vandalism is rather concerning. Suggestions that the CO be fired because someone got paint on a ship? Questions of "Where were the upper deck sentries?"

So, how exactly do people think the upper deck sentries should have responded to this? Because, here's the thing; if you're on the upper deck with a rifle, and someone tries to throw paint on the ship, the only thing you can do with a rifle is either shoot them or threaten to shoot them.

Is anyone here really of the opinion that things would have turned out better for the CO or the UDS or the OOD or the CAF as a whole if we had awoken instead to the headline "Canadian Navy fires upon unarmed protesters in Greece, 2 killed 4 wounded" or something of the sort?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Honestly, the reaction in this thread to what amounts to petty vandalism is rather concerning. Suggestions that the CO be fired because someone got paint on a ship? Questions of "Where were the upper deck sentries?"

So, how exactly do people think the upper deck sentries should have responded to this? Because, here's the thing; if you're on the upper deck with a rifle, and someone tries to throw paint on the ship, the only thing you can do with a rifle is either shoot them or threaten to shoot them.

Is anyone here really of the opinion that things would have turned out better for the CO or the UDS or the OOD or the CAF as a whole if we had awoken instead to the headline "Canadian Navy fires upon unarmed protesters in Greece, 2 killed 4 wounded" or something of the sort?

This time it was paint, next time it will be an incendiary device.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Honestly, the reaction in this thread to what amounts to petty vandalism is rather concerning. Suggestions that the CO be fired because someone got paint on a ship? Questions of "Where were the upper deck sentries?"

So, how exactly do people think the upper deck sentries should have responded to this? Because, here's the thing; if you're on the upper deck with a rifle, and someone tries to throw paint on the ship, the only thing you can do with a rifle is either shoot them or threaten to shoot them.

Is anyone here really of the opinion that things would have turned out better for the CO or the UDS or the OOD or the CAF as a whole if we had awoken instead to the headline "Canadian Navy fires upon unarmed protesters in Greece, 2 killed 4 wounded" or something of the sort?

The way the CO trained them to be ready to address such threats, I would say, including employing a range of appropriate measures that reflect the correct application of the use of force principles. Which might have involved more crew than just the sentries.

Or something like that

 

[stoker dave]

When I was OOD on 'active service' deployment to the Middle East, I don't recall getting ANY training in this area at all.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The way the CO trained them to be ready to address such threats, I would say, including employing a range of appropriate measures that reflect the correct application of the use of force principles. Which might have involved more crew than just the sentries.

Or something like that

I can certainly tell you, doing nothing was never part of the training.

 

[btrudy]

Ok, so a crowd of people has a few of them sprayed down, and the paint still gets on the ship. Cool beans?

This time it was paint, next time it will be an incendiary device.

Or, the next time it'll still be petty vandalism because that's by far the most likely scenario when visiting a NATO port. Regardless, reacting with violence in the face of a protest does not ever look good for us. Explaining away at your court martial how you were paranoid and assumed that the paint can was a bomb, despite it looking nothing like a bomb and there being no real indication that was the case is not going to go well for you.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I can certainly tell you, doing nothing was never part of the training.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

When I was OOD on 'active service' deployment to the Middle East, I don't recall getting ANY training in this area at all.

Hence why some of us here have said that's a clear problem that needs to be rectified.

At a minimum, this should have triggered a response to increase the Ship's force protection level.

Additional sentries should have been brought up to the upper decks and fire hoses should have been deployed.

 

[btrudy]

I can certainly tell you, doing nothing was never part of the training.

I can also tell you that assessing the potential threat was part of the training. Looks to me like the UDS did so, and reacted accordingly.

Hence why some of us here have said that's a clear problem that needs to be rectified.

At a minimum, this should have triggered a response to increase the Ship's force protection level.

Additional sentries should have been brought up to the upper decks and fire hoses should have been deployed.

I don't know why you're assuming they didn't do so after the event occurred. But it's not exactly like that's a response which can occur during the span of "the time it takes for protesters to run down the jetty with paint cans".

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hence why some of us here have said that's a clear problem that needs to be rectified.

At a minimum, this should have triggered a response to increase the Ship's force protection level.

Additional sentries should have been brought up to the upper decks and fire hoses should have been deployed.

And then break out the shields and batons and have 'Phase 3' ready below decks....

 

[McG]

And then break out the shields and batons and have 'Phase 3' ready below decks....

If the ship's security is going to step one boot onto the jetty, there had better be a SOFA that allows the use of force or Canadian sailors may find themselves in the local prison. The ship is sovereign. The jetty is local.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I can also tell you that assessing the potential threat was part of the training.

Part of that assessment would involve Ship's staff, aka the OOD and the FPO, actually going to the upper decks and making an assessment.

There is a longer video I've already seen of this. You can see the UDS on the foc'sle doing absolutely nothing while this is going on. Not even a pipe gets made. At a minimum the Force Protection level should have been elevated.

There are so many things the Ship could have done well before the need to engage:

Pipes, closing the brow, alarms, loud speakers, verbal commands, additional sentries, water hoses.

The fact they did nothing speaks volumes to their lack of preparedness for this situation. It's a training deficiency that needs to be rectified.