For those who drove the 417

[George Wallace]

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Speeding ticket could lead to 3rd trial

30/07/2010 6:25:09 PM
CBC News

LINK

A Toronto man could face a third trial, over the same speeding ticket, after the City of Ottawa launched an appeal of his acquittal last month.

Dennis Pacitti, 43, was found guilty in 2009 of driving 149 km/h in a 100 km/h zone on the Queensway. He was fined over $300 and given four demerit points.

He appealed the decision, and was cleared in a second trial in June 2010. But the city appealed that decision as well. A judge will decide in October whether to hold a third trial.

At issue was the lack of hard evidence on the speed of Pacitti's vehicle. Rather than using a radar gun or other speed-tracking device, the officer used a "pacing" method; judging the speed of Pacitti's pick up truck using the cruiser's speedometer.

"It was strange, because he didn't have anything to prove the speed," said Pacitti, an independent contractor who was on his way to a job when he was pulled over.

"I noticed him coming up behind me and he's just weaving through traffic to get to me," he said. "So I don't know how he knew how fast I was going. I really wasn't paying attention but don't think I was going 150. "

Stuart Huxley, the city's lawyer, said the police cruiser pursued Pacitti's truck "for some distance. And the speeds of both vehicles were approximately in the range of 175 kilometres per hour."

Pacitti said he can't understand why the city is still pursuing the case two years after the incident.

"The appeal surprises me, because it was just a speeding ticket," said Pacitti. "If it was a serious offence like a criminal offence I could understand that, but I really don't understand this."

The city said it is pursuing the case because the speed at which Pacitti's car was travelling was excessive. Pacitti said the incident has cost him more than $6,000 in car insurance and legal fees.

With files from the CBC's Ashley Burke

=====================================================================



???

Has anyone managed to travel that fast on the 417?  I often have been down to 30 kph, unless stopped/parked on the 417.  This doesn't sound like it was late at night when the highway is fairly much deserted, if the Cop was "weaving in and out behind cars".  The 417 is also an OPP jurisdiction. 

 

[HavokFour]

Oh that can be done easy. It would help though to know what time of day he was clocked/pulled over.

 

[Occam]

Yeah, I saw this on the CBC news last night.  In preparation for fighting my own speeding ticket a few years ago, I spent a few evenings watching traffic court.  I saw many drivers claim "I couldn't have been travelling XXX km/h, your honour - I looked at my speedometer and it said 100".  I also saw every single one of them, on cross-examination by the crown, asked the question "When was your speedometer last calibrated?".  Of course in that situation, they all answer "never", and against a radar gun that is tested regularly, they all lost their cases.

Based on that premise, the officer shouldn't have a leg to stand on if his cruiser's speedometer isn't calibrated.  What's good for the goose, and all that.

What irked me was that the city's lawyer told CBC News that thousands of dollars in legal fees had already been spent by the city fighting this.  Not my idea of money well spent.

As an aside, are there any pickup trucks out there these days that aren't electronically limited to 160 km/h?  And if the cop said he was "clocked" at up to 175 km/h, why wasn't he then charged with speeding 75 km/h over the limit, as well as stunt driving under the new law?  Something stinks.

 

[gaspasser]

["The city said it is pursuing the case because the speed at which Pacitti's car was travelling was excessive. Pacitti said the incident has cost him more than $6,000 in car insurance and legal fees."]

Why don't some idiots just pay up and say I'm sorry!!? The reason we get these idiots doing 150+ is because the LAW allows them to when they cry in court..and who the heck calibrates their speedometer?  That's a lawyer getting his client off scot free...I wonder how much Pacitti PAID the lawyer to get him off the hook??  I see it everyday here in town, little traffic violations (that if the OPP ticketed would definitely cover the deficit!!)  that have now turned into major accidents waiting to happen.  I truly erks me, that as a professional driver, I try very hard every day to drive properly and then I see some jerk fly be an OPP cruiser and not get pulled over...or and OPP cruiser making illegal lane changes that he would pull you over for. 
We have to turn the tables and get the judges to start dropping the hammer on the little things in court...stop the mamby-pamby crying and the guilty have more rights than the innocent or victims.

Sorry, rant off  my  :2c:
It's just in my advancing year, I grow less tolerant of BS, idiots and the small minority taking over...

 

[George Wallace]

I see it everyday in Ottawa.  City Police cruising along in a dream, changing lanes without signalling, bored to have to wait at a red light so they turn on their lights, not smart enough to turn on their headlights in a snow storm.  OC Transpo bus drivers are no better when it comes to lane changing or running red lights (I think most of them ride bicycles to work and continue their bad habits behind the wheel.). 


It angers me that the City wants to follow this up for a fine that will in the end be a fraction of the cost of court fees.  We have two Speedometers being called into question.  Neither was probably calibrated recently.  There is no mention of wreckless driving.  417 traffic in the city during daylight hours does not accommodate those speeds for any length of time or distance.  So the guy beat the charge.  Live with it Ottawa.

 

[Occam]

BYTD, you need to read the article again.

The police officer charged the guy with travelling 149 km/h based on the fact that the cop paced him with his cruiser.  In other words, the cop is claiming his speedometer is accurate.  Well, if I as a citizen can only use the "my speedometer is accurate" defence if it's been calibrated, and the police can only use the "my radar/lidar is accurate" if it's been tested/calibrated, then it's only fair that the same standard be demanded of the police cruiser's speedometer.  It wasn't calibrated, so the driver doesn't deserve a finding of guilty.

It doesn't sound suspicious to you that the officer claims he clocked the driver at 149 km/h, based upon his own speedometer reading, but the officer also claims that speeds of 175 km/h were reached?  Was the cop being a really, really, really nice guy that day and decided to let him off the stunt driving charge (with associated one-week licence suspension, one-week vehicle seizure, and $2000 minimum fine) by writing down the speed as 149 instead of 175?

This should never have made it past the original court appearance because of the sloppy evidence.

 

[Sapplicant]

Want an end to all this BS? Want hard evidence? All new cars should be outfitted with a black-box of sorts, which, with the wave of a wand (much like an esso speed pass, or whatever) will give an officer the telemetry for the past 15/20 minutes. Then the policeman can go to his car, retrieve the actual speeds, and write the ticket accordingly. This can be done, and done easily. All new cars already have computers anyways, why not have some form of memory in it to "save" your speed data?

Granted, it'll only work with the newest cars, but still, it's a step in the right direction. And, if anyone from any of the big auto companies is reading this, IF THIS IS A NEW IDEA THAT CAN MAKE MONEY, I WANT HALF!!! 


edited for clarity

 

[George Wallace]

Want an end to all this BS? Want hard evidence? All new cars should be outfitted with a black-box of sorts, which, with the wave of a wand (much like an esso speed pass, or whatever) will give an officer the telemetry for the past 15/20 minutes. Then the police can go to his car, retrieve the actual speeds, and write the ticket accordingly. This can be done, and done easily. All new cars already have computers anyways, why not have some form of memory in it to "save" your speed data?

Granted, it'll only work with the newest cars, but still, it's a step in the right direction. And, if anyone from any of the big auto companies is reading this, IF THIS IS A NEW IDEA THAT CAN MAKE MONEY, I WANT HALF!!! 

It is an old idea and one that has been implemented on buses in Europe since the 1970's. 

I do believe there are steps in motion to do something along these lines for all motor vehicles as part of "Accident Prevention" in order to allow accident investigators to better understand what happened.

 

[Sapplicant]

It is an old idea and one that has been implemented on buses in Europe since the 1970's. 

I do believe there are steps in motion to do something along these lines for all motor vehicles as part of "Accident Prevention" in order to allow accident investigators to better understand what happened.

Well thank the great architect for that. Thanks for letting me know George. Just too bad I won't be cashing in on that gem  ;D

 

[mariomike]

Want hard evidence? All new cars should be outfitted with a black-box of sorts, <snip>

ABC News: "Is That a 'Black Box' in Your Car?:
A Useful Tool for Law Enforcement but Some Worry Their Cars Might Rat on Them":
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/MellodyHobson/car-black-box-records-key-data/story?id=9814181

"A black box inside the SUV recorded the speed of the SUV five seconds before the crash.":
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18158503/

Forbes:
"Black Box for Cars":
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0811/084.html
"teenagers drive much better when their parents are sitting next to them. His black box device is always there watching the driver. When the kids come home, the parents can download driving information to review."

Decades before the Black Box, ambulances, and other vehicles, had mechanical tachographs.:
http://www.farmtronics.com/prodimages/300/0943-c.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tachoscheibe.jpg

Which were replaced by electronic Event Data Recorder EDR aka "Black Box":
http://www.roadsafety.com/

"These devices can monitor and record unsafe vehicle operation when drivers exceed set parameters for things like speed and g-forces caused by rapid accelerations, hard decelerations and high-speed turns. They can also monitor other important safety indicators, such as use of seat belts, use of a spotter while backing up and proper utilization of emergency lights and siren. Some can provide immediate in-vehicle audio feedback to drivers who start driving unsafely. Most of the common models are able, much like aircraft flight data recorders, to monitor driver behavior and store the information for retrospective analysis. This allows the identification and correction of bad habits before they result in crashes, injuries or deaths."

"Drive Cam" is another:
http://www.drivecam.com/

I see it everyday in Ottawa.  City Police cruising along in a dream, changing lanes without signalling, bored to have to wait at a red light so they turn on their lights, not smart enough to turn on their headlights in a snow storm.  OC Transpo bus drivers are no better when it comes to lane changing or running red lights (I think most of them ride bicycles to work and continue their bad habits behind the wheel.). 

Employers can improve things by putting the right people behind the wheel in the first place. Monitor their drivers closely. ( Consider computer simulators, tachographs, EDRs and drive cams. )
Take whatever steps necessary to change bad driving behavior.
If you can not change their behavior, get them out of the driver's seat before someone gets killed.

 

[eurowing]

Yeah, I saw this on the CBC news last night.  In preparation for fighting my own speeding ticket a few years ago, I spent a few evenings watching traffic court.  I saw many drivers claim "I couldn't have been travelling XXX km/h, your honour - I looked at my speedometer and it said 100".  I also saw every single one of them, on cross-examination by the crown, asked the question "When was your speedometer last calibrated?".

You can verify your own speedometer with a handheld GPS.  I checked my mini-van, Tahoe and Gold Wing.  The only one that was out was the Gold Wing.  Speedometer read 8km fast @ 100.  So you could say, "I verified it with GPS Your Honour".  Might not qualify as "calibrated" though.

Who knows, it might work, but I would simply fess up if got caught speeding.

 

[Sapplicant]

but I would simply fess up if got caught speeding.

If only everyone were that honest, eh?