Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[buzgo]

The last time the Army had its own test (that being right now) it was easier for a lot of fat, unfit pers.  We do not need our own test, but it may be worth having an Army bolt-on extension to the CF test.  One would do the CF test and then immeadeatly pick-up a ruck and do the BFT march.

I would actually like to see all the CF tests conducted at the finish line of the march, but if pers do not start fresh on the CF tests then I could see someone successfully grieving that the standard was changed and they should not be penalized as having not met the CF standard.

Agreed, I should have been more clear: The Army needs an environmental/operational test of some kind, in addition to the Project FORCE standard test. I have heard that a modified BFT style forced march was being looked at: less distance - 5 km,  wearing armour with plates and full combat load so likely more weight.

This 'test' could be part of IBTS or whatever we call it now, or part of the deployment checklist but shouldn't be confused with the fitness test.

 

[Haggis]

Agreed, I should have been more clear: The Army needs an environmental/operational test of some kind, in addition to the Project FORCE standard test. I have heard that a modified BFT style forced march was being looked at: less distance - 5 km,  wearing armour with plates and full combat load so likely more weight.

Define "full combat load"? The Infantry load? CSS? Armour?

This 'test' could be part of IBTS or whatever we call it now, or part of the deployment checklist but shouldn't be confused with the fitness test.

  The BFT is part of the deployment checklist now.  Why re-invent the wheel?

 

[medicineman]

Agreed, I should have been more clear: The Army needs an environmental/operational test of some kind, in addition to the Project FORCE standard test. I have heard that a modified BFT style forced march was being looked at: less distance - 5 km,  wearing armour with plates and full combat load so likely more weight.

This 'test' could be part of IBTS or whatever we call it now, or part of the deployment checklist but shouldn't be confused with the fitness test.

Or go back to 2 mile run we did in the Warrior Training days - 2 miles in full battle order under 24 minutes IIRC.  New combat boots have much nicer soles for running in than before.

As Haggis pointed out, what defines a combat load?  Are you planning on making different standardized weight requirements depending on your trade or where you work - a Carl G team for instance has a very different combat load than Number One Rifleman or a supply tech in a service batallion or a radio operator or a medic...

:2c:

MM

 

[buzgo]

Make up some baseline load. Or, make a CSS standard and a combat arms standard. I don't think its that hard to come up with something. It doesn't need to be specialized.

Alternatively, ditch it all together and just use the fitness test - I don't think this is a good approach but hey, no test will ever satisfy everyone...

 

[Infanteer]

"Combat load" generally means carrying too much stuff.

 

[Container]

I was speaking with psp about this morning while doing my pt test. They indicated that its a go for April 1st. But it's still unclear how its going to affect the reserves and the bft. It really seemed like there is as many questions right now as there is "for sures"

 

[da1root]

PSP doesn't fail anyone on PT test.  The person being tested fails themself.

Edit: Tense

Derailing a bit but that statement is not always true - a number of years ago ('06 time period I think) I failed my PT test because of push-ups - 4 weeks prior to when I supposed to go on PLQ.  Luckily I was able to waive the 6 month waiting period and redo my test 2 weeks later and passed with flying colours (with no additional training).  I had injured my shoulder just months prior in a roll over car accident and my shoulder hadn't totally strengthened again - first PSP staff and second PSP staff had different standards (the second PSP staff was the PSP supervisor for the region).

As a Navy guy who's done the BFT (and trained for Nijmegen) the BFT isn't a great indicator of fitness, but neither is the express, my shoulder is still not as strong as it used to be, but I can could definitely do the new tasks where as push ups are always a concern of mine - I'm looking forward to trying FORCE.

Question for those part of the test project:
1. Sandbag lift
Time 3min 30 secs
Setup two 20kg Sandbag 1.25m apart.  Lift bag 91cm off the ground drop it and repeat with bag that is 1.25m apart
Repeat a total of 30 times

Is that that you're lifting the bag a total of 30 times, or you're doing the rotation a total of 30 times (i.e. lifting 60 times in total)?

 

[PuckChaser]

Sounds like each pair of lift and drop is a rep, and you do 30 reps (60 individual lifts), but someone who has completed the test can clarify.

I'm interested to see how this test differs as well, as I'm coming off a serious knee surgery and this will definitely gauge my ability to return to full duty or not. Is EXPRES still be offered until 1 Apr 13, or is PSP trying to push FORCE before that date for everyone?

 

[da1root]

I read a briefing PPT from 4 Wg Cold Lake and it says that FY 13/14 you'll still be able to do the EXPRES test.

Source:
http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/ColdLake/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Documents/Project%20FORCE.ppt    (Slide 14)

Edit: In previous posts there were questions about exemption with the new test - I have noticed slide 12 mentions an exemption program and in the notes it states there will likely be a basic pass, then bronze, silver and gold exemption (although it does state it will likely be a yearly test).

 

[daftandbarmy]

Or go back to 2 mile run we did in the Warrior Training days - 2 miles in full battle order under 24 minutes IIRC.  New combat boots have much nicer soles for running in than before.

As Haggis pointed out, what defines a combat load?  Are you planning on making different standardized weight requirements depending on your trade or where you work - a Carl G team for instance has a very different combat load than Number One Rifleman or a supply tech in a service batallion or a radio operator or a medic...

:2c:

MM

There are a few other organizations out there who seem to have had it figured out for decades. It wouldn't take much to do a comparison of 'world class' battle fitness tests and adapt/adopt soemthing that would work for the F (Footborne) Ech in the CF:

Viz: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_02/iss_2/CAJ_vol2.2_07_e.pdf

 

[medicineman]

There are a few other organizations out there who seem to have had it figured out for decades. It wouldn't take much to do a comparison of 'world class' battle fitness tests and adapt/adopt something that would work for the F (Footborne) Ech in the CF:

Viz: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_02/iss_2/CAJ_vol2.2_07_e.pdf

But it wouldn't be Canadian and where would all the grant money go that was to be spent on a Canadian one if you bought off the shelf?

:sarcasm:

MM

 

[buzgo]

DRDC in Toronto has a test that they are working on for human factors testing of load carrying equipment, armour, helmets etc. It could be adapted as a 'combat readiness' test with little effort. Some board members may have been involved in recent test runs there.

 

[medicineman]

Cool - they doing trials outside the labs yet?  You wouldn't per chance have any info links?  I'd be interested in reading what they're doing actually.

MM

 

[daftandbarmy]

Cool - they doing trials outside the labs yet?  You wouldn't per chance have any info links?  I'd be interested in reading what they're doing actually.

MM

I hope they bring back some digging, like one of those previous tests we had that didn't go anywhere. It reminded me of one of my favourite movies, in a good way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wi4W2ATGAs

;D

 

[navymich]

http://vimeo.com/54119198

Project FORCE - for review


Shows what some of the initial trials and tests were and you also get a glimpse of what is going to be the new testing.

Does anyone have a VIMEO account?  Now when you try to view this video, it comes up with:

Permission Denied
This is a private video. Do you have permission to watch it? If you do, please first log in to Vimeo to watch this video.

 

[GnyHwy]

I am curious what will happen to exempt status?  It seems it is going away, and because the old express had it, it could be considered equal to BFT.  Now that FORCE will not have exempt, it only makes sense that BFT will lose exempt also.

OMG, what will they do will that extra point?  

 

[TwoTonShackle]

I am curious what will happen to exempt status?  It seems it is going away, and because the old express had it, it could be considered equal to BFT.  Now that FORCE will not have exempt, it only makes sense that BFT will lose exempt also.

OMG, what will they do will that extra point?  

The extra point will be given to those who are competent in their element's third most used language:

Army - Arabic, for Middle East Operations
Navy - Spanish, for Latin American hailing and interdictions
Air Force - ProShop, for ensure prompt bookings of tee times and golf fees.

 

[AKa]

Question for those part of the test project:
1. Sandbag lift
Time 3min 30 secs
Setup two 20kg Sandbag 1.25m apart.  Lift bag 91cm off the ground drop it and repeat with bag that is 1.25m apart
Repeat a total of 30 times

Is that that you're lifting the bag a total of 30 times, or you're doing the rotation a total of 30 times (i.e. lifting 60 times in total)?

In the trials we lifted the bags 30 times in total.  And although I had lots of time left over, I had no urge to lift more.

Cheers!

 

[The Bread Guy]

It's now official....

The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, today announced an updated approach to military fitness, officially called the Fitness for Operational Requirement for Canadian Armed Forces Employment (FORCE) Program. This new program more accurately represents the physical demands of military operations in the field, and better predicts a member’s ability to execute tasks directly linked to physical challenges faced in operations.

(....)

The FORCE Program includes two key components: the FORCE Evaluation, which is the new minimum physical fitness standard for Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) personnel and will be replacing the current Canadian Forces EXPRES Test, and the supporting exercise prescription provided through the DFit.ca website. The four FORCE Evaluation components have been designed to accurately test CAF members’ ability to complete the six common military tasks encountered on routine, domestic, and expeditionary operations. All CAF members will be tested annually and will be required to achieve one common minimum standard, regardless of age and gender.

(....)

DND/CF Info-machine, 4 Mar 13

At the same time the Canadian Forces is trimming its budget, it's also working to trim the waistlines of its personnel.

Obesity and waning fitness levels within the Canadian Forces have dogged the organization for years. Writing in a Forces journal in 2005, Lt.-Col. Michael Goodspeed explained: "There is a visible and growing minority who have allowed themselves to become noticeably overweight. A subset of this group...would be a liability to their comrades and in public, they have become an embarrassment."

Defence Minister Peter MacKay and Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Tom Lawson were on hand Monday to demonstrate the new FORCE program - a universal fitness standard all Canadian Forces members must meet.

Rather than a simple set of push-ups and chin-ups, the program looked at the toughest activities members could theoretically encounter and designed exercises to meet those demands.

MacKay broke a sweat pulling 130 kg of weights across a gymnasium floor - this simulates having to carry an injured comrade (with all his or her gear) through tough terrain.

Other exercises prepare members for such challenges as escaping to cover, carrying a stretcher, hauling sandbags and extricating vehicles.

The test MacKay demonstrated will be administered annually to every Canadian Forces member. Failure rates are 2% to 3%, and those members must complete additional fitness training programs ....

QMI/Sun Media, 4 Mar 13

 

[daftandbarmy]

I find it appropriate that we have adopted an Army fitness test that is run indoors in a nicely heated, well lit, clean, controlled environment (you know - just like an office) which is exactly where we have to fight and win our most important battles.

Oh hang on, almost forgot:

:sarcasm: