Parked4everuser
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Exactly.
Effectiveness is key.
/End of miffed ranting (for now)
Effectiveness is key.
/End of miffed ranting (for now)
Firefighters' fitness test ruled discriminatory
- Thread starter Scott
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What a gong show! I hate to see what's next :
Edmonton and Calgary Fire Rescue/Fire Department have pretty much the same thing.
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/AerobicEndurance.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/ChargedHoseAdvance.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/HighVolumeHosePull.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/ForcibleEntrySimulation.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/VictimDrag.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/LadderClimb.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/EquipmentCarry.pdf
Clear as day
Edmonton and Calgary Fire Rescue/Fire Department have pretty much the same thing.
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/AerobicEndurance.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/ChargedHoseAdvance.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/HighVolumeHosePull.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/ForcibleEntrySimulation.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/VictimDrag.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/LadderClimb.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/EmergServ/EquipmentCarry.pdf
http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_0_272_214_0_43/http%3B/CMSServer/COEWeb/emergency+services/fire+and+rescue+services/our+team/physicalfitnesstest.htm
Clear as day
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I think we need to take a step back and re-read the decision. It acknowledged that firefighters need to be fit. The problem is that DND failed to demonstrate what the standard demanded was based on.
In other words, the committee said: "Yes. They have to be fit. But you haven't proved how fit, or how your test meets that standard of fitness." It's DND that's srewed up here, being unable to prove where the standard comes from, or what it measures. Anyone familiar with bureaucracy should not find this surprising.
In other words, the committee said: "Yes. They have to be fit. But you haven't proved how fit, or how your test meets that standard of fitness." It's DND that's srewed up here, being unable to prove where the standard comes from, or what it measures. Anyone familiar with bureaucracy should not find this surprising.
I gave an example at work the other day for the average Airmen who is not in shape nor has the phsical means to lift their own body weight.
A Pilot, Airmen are inside of the cockpit on a F18, all of a sudden the person passes out,
Do you have the strength to lift that person out of the cockpit and to safety. Or do you wait untill the firefighters show up in a mintue or two.
Second Scenerio. You are a Soldier in a Armoured vehicle, something happens and you are the only one left to pull your buddies bodies out of the hatches before they die.
These scenerios are realistic and have happened in the past and will in the future.
Do you have the strength to be able to do either of these?
It left a couple of blank stares on peoples faces,
I have no problem for them to lower standards of any job, but if you cannot complete the required section. IE firemens carry the average person up or down a few flights of stairs then I do not feel safe with you protecting me. (note Dragging me down grate stares is not an acceptable alternative unless their are circumstances outside your control) Being in physicle shape to do this is not one of them.
Good luck to all.
What does the FireFighters board think about this, what do the Firemen themselves think about this?
Cheers
A Pilot, Airmen are inside of the cockpit on a F18, all of a sudden the person passes out,
Do you have the strength to lift that person out of the cockpit and to safety. Or do you wait untill the firefighters show up in a mintue or two.
Second Scenerio. You are a Soldier in a Armoured vehicle, something happens and you are the only one left to pull your buddies bodies out of the hatches before they die.
These scenerios are realistic and have happened in the past and will in the future.
Do you have the strength to be able to do either of these?
It left a couple of blank stares on peoples faces,
I have no problem for them to lower standards of any job, but if you cannot complete the required section. IE firemens carry the average person up or down a few flights of stairs then I do not feel safe with you protecting me. (note Dragging me down grate stares is not an acceptable alternative unless their are circumstances outside your control) Being in physicle shape to do this is not one of them.
Good luck to all.
What does the FireFighters board think about this, what do the Firemen themselves think about this?
Cheers
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I actually see this as a fluid battle and not a set piece massacre of standards. davidhmd may have been hitting us with some sarcasm but, I think that idea could work. As the CF now does fitness testing at training centres, firefighters can use something similiar. If you don't make the standard but, meet another minimum you go into 'firestarter' platoon (or however firefighters are organized) and have X number of days/weeks/months to meet the standard before real training. There are any number of ways to skim the fat off the cream. Random or provoked barrack inspections begat kit inspections begat hygiene inspections. With this principle, the optimist in me sees the 'gold standard' being the altered standard being the modified standard.
The good lord willin' and the river don't rise...
The good lord willin' and the river don't rise...
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With regards to ALL CF fitness: I see no reason why people can't meet the standard, instead of bringing the standard to meet them...
On a side note, I was basically told "good effin luck" getting firefighter in the CF later on in life... :boring:
On a side note, I was basically told "good effin luck" getting firefighter in the CF later on in life... :boring:
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Scott said:
Who did this? - Firefighters themselves.
The fatties for not being able to pass the test, and the poor showing by their leaders for not being able to demonstrate what level of fitness was required.
329 Grievances? How many CF Firefighters are there? Did they all file grievances?
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GO!!! said:
Apparently at least 329, all women and men over 50...
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There are very few professions that require physical strength and stamina; the Army, Fire Fighter, and Police to name a few. It’s a significant component of the job … so why would anyone want to water that down? Political Correctness is fine to a point, but when it begins to endanger people… it’s gone way to far. :rage:
Except that, by lowering standards, you offend and insult all the ones that work hard and train so that that they can pass the current physical requirements.
How will this affect the workplace? A lot of bad feelings/in-fighting can result from stuff like this.
I'm hoping we get more details, in future. I'd hate to think we're all condemning this based on a story that is written for drama-rather than the facts. My opinions are based on the premise that the requirements are for entrance into the trade. Maybe I shouldn't be assuming this.
Others have made me pause and wonder if we aren't missing many important details.
How will this affect the workplace? A lot of bad feelings/in-fighting can result from stuff like this.
I'm hoping we get more details, in future. I'd hate to think we're all condemning this based on a story that is written for drama-rather than the facts. My opinions are based on the premise that the requirements are for entrance into the trade. Maybe I shouldn't be assuming this.
Others have made me pause and wonder if we aren't missing many important details.
"A Pilot, Airmen are inside of the cockpit on a F18, all of a sudden the person passes out,
Do you have the strength to lift that person out of the cockpit and to safety. Or do you wait untill the firefighters show up in a mintue or two?"
- Use the darn ejection seat?
- Honestly, until we have blind people hiring on as airline pilots, doctors and dentists, this bull will just get worse and worse.
Do you have the strength to lift that person out of the cockpit and to safety. Or do you wait untill the firefighters show up in a mintue or two?"
- Use the darn ejection seat?
- Honestly, until we have blind people hiring on as airline pilots, doctors and dentists, this bull will just get worse and worse.
I am a military firefighter and have done the fitness test for several years. It was an annual test that we had to complete every year instead of the CF Express test.
One thing that many people do not know is that there are two types of firefighters. CF military firefighters (651 trade) and DND Civilian firefighters. CF Firefighters are found on major airfield bases (and CFB Edmonton) and on ships, as well as some smaller places mainly as fire inspectors or deployed as fire inspectors. DND Civilians cover everything else such as the Dockyards in Halifax and Esquimalt, Mosejaw etc.
I don't know for sure that there were not grievances placed by military firefighters but most came from the civy side. I do not know of any military firefighters that failed the test, not saying none did I just haven't heard of any. I also know several firefighters over 50 that have passed the test. The quickest I have heard of anyone passing the test was about the 4:30 minute mark.
Hope this helps clarify somethings.
One thing that many people do not know is that there are two types of firefighters. CF military firefighters (651 trade) and DND Civilian firefighters. CF Firefighters are found on major airfield bases (and CFB Edmonton) and on ships, as well as some smaller places mainly as fire inspectors or deployed as fire inspectors. DND Civilians cover everything else such as the Dockyards in Halifax and Esquimalt, Mosejaw etc.
I don't know for sure that there were not grievances placed by military firefighters but most came from the civy side. I do not know of any military firefighters that failed the test, not saying none did I just haven't heard of any. I also know several firefighters over 50 that have passed the test. The quickest I have heard of anyone passing the test was about the 4:30 minute mark.
Hope this helps clarify somethings.
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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TCBF said:
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+1 Babs,
Once again, someone has made an asinine adjudicated decision to save oppressed, aged and weak persons from the unfair treatment we always receive, whether we know it or not.
I say we because I am a female, and therefore must constantly need a babysitter of the highest level to look out for me. Apparently, well paid babysitters will ensure that I never have to actually work my butt off for anything if I wish to succeed. Babysitters will ensure, despite the fact that I am 38 years old, that my youth will endure forever. The will guarantee, by their adjudication, my right to undertake a highly skilled and unbelievably physical jobs just because I want to, and not because I can perform. Where have we gone wrong?
If there is one thing that my father did manage to instill deep within my psyche somewhere, without knowing it. It was my sense of fight, that I would no longer be the weak and protectable. That I would stick up for and defend me. That no-one would speak on my behalf, that no-one would ever again need to protect me. That I would work my as$ off to accomplish what I wanted; that I would earn it; not be handed it on a platter because I was someones vision of a poor begotten soul. If I fail at my task or goal, it is because I deserved to fail, either because I was not physically capable or mentally ready; it is not because I am a woman.
When one fails, either because they were not strong enough, fit enough, fast enough, mentally tough enough; one picks up the pieces and carries on. Giving themselves a good boot in the as$ for not ensuring they were ready to perform the requirement/task/test at hand. That is what I call honour and integrity; and that, ladies and gents is what should be making the world go round.
Equal opportunity? Then just do it. Equally and to the same standard. For if you can not do it to the equal standard of your counterparts, do you really deserve to be there? I think not. I know not. Therefore I do not want to be. I'd rather have my honour and integrity, and the personal knowledge that I am where I deserve to be.
To my bro, a CF fighterfighter (formerly PPCLI), sorry bro; this latest decision is not on. It wasn't me!
Once again, someone has made an asinine adjudicated decision to save oppressed, aged and weak persons from the unfair treatment we always receive, whether we know it or not.
I say we because I am a female, and therefore must constantly need a babysitter of the highest level to look out for me. Apparently, well paid babysitters will ensure that I never have to actually work my butt off for anything if I wish to succeed. Babysitters will ensure, despite the fact that I am 38 years old, that my youth will endure forever. The will guarantee, by their adjudication, my right to undertake a highly skilled and unbelievably physical jobs just because I want to, and not because I can perform. Where have we gone wrong?
If there is one thing that my father did manage to instill deep within my psyche somewhere, without knowing it. It was my sense of fight, that I would no longer be the weak and protectable. That I would stick up for and defend me. That no-one would speak on my behalf, that no-one would ever again need to protect me. That I would work my as$ off to accomplish what I wanted; that I would earn it; not be handed it on a platter because I was someones vision of a poor begotten soul. If I fail at my task or goal, it is because I deserved to fail, either because I was not physically capable or mentally ready; it is not because I am a woman.
When one fails, either because they were not strong enough, fit enough, fast enough, mentally tough enough; one picks up the pieces and carries on. Giving themselves a good boot in the as$ for not ensuring they were ready to perform the requirement/task/test at hand. That is what I call honour and integrity; and that, ladies and gents is what should be making the world go round.
Equal opportunity? Then just do it. Equally and to the same standard. For if you can not do it to the equal standard of your counterparts, do you really deserve to be there? I think not. I know not. Therefore I do not want to be. I'd rather have my honour and integrity, and the personal knowledge that I am where I deserve to be.
To my bro, a CF fighterfighter (formerly PPCLI), sorry bro; this latest decision is not on. It wasn't me!
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