Feds Cut Reimbursements for Military Health Care

[Ostrozac]

Well this effect us for non-service related issues if we have a provincial health card?

Well this work out to the point that if I hurt myself while not on military time I'm covered, but if I hurt myself in uniform I may have to pay for it myself?

I’d be careful with that. If you’re in the Reg Force and using a provincial health card that you are no longer eligible for, that’s getting pretty close to fraud. The Canada Health Act says that CAF members (and prisoners, and newcomers for the first 90 days) aren’t insured by the province.

 

[Kilted]

I’d be careful with that. If you’re in the Reg Force and using a provincial health card that you are no longer eligible for, that’s getting pretty close to fraud. The Canada Health Act says that CAF members (and prisoners, and newcomers for the first 90 days) aren’t insured by the province.

I'm a Reservist, I figured my name gave that away. Although some reservists are on Blue Cross. That's what I meant by not on military time.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It can get complicated, fast, for some reservists WRT which medical system (CF or military) you would seek attention or treatment.

The Reserve Aircrew I know all see military flight surgeons (when you can find one) for anything that may impact their ability to fly. Other than that, they tend to see their civilian GP (if they have one). Some situations/conditions are not cut and dried, however.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well this effect us for non-service related issues if we have a provincial health card?

Well this work out to the point that if I hurt myself while not on military time I'm covered, but if I hurt myself in uniform I may have to pay for it myself?

No, not the way I was made to understand it.  You just won't necessarily get faster service/shorter wait times, as the health care provider won't be getting more for their services to you than they would any covered under the applic provincial health care system.

 

[Quirky]

Good. We should not be getting  special treatment and jumping the line at hospitals for specialists appointments and MIRs. If we use provincial services we need to wait like everyone else. How this impacts operations with more people not deployable and on tcats are problems for commanders to figure out.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good. We should not be getting  special treatment and jumping the line at hospitals for specialists appointments and MIRs. If we use provincial services we need to wait like everyone else. How this impacts operations with more people not deployable and on tcats are problems for commanders to figure out.

Except it's going to be the healthy members who get screwed over and pick up the slack.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Except it's going to be the healthy members who get screwed over and pick up the slack.

And then those healthy members become unhealthy, pissed off...wash, rinse, repeat and the big tail-chasing exercise begins again...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some of the latest ....

• "Alberta Health Minister Tyler Shandro is calling on the federal government to reverse a decision that will see provinces pick up more of the cost of treating members of the military for medical operations and other health care ..." (The Canadian Press)
• "Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau promised Wednesday that military personnel will not suffer as a result of a battle over money that is playing out between the federal government and the provinces, which has already elicited strong words from Ontario, Alberta and Manitoba ..." (The Canadian Press)
• "... Pembroke Regional Hospital, located near the Canadian Forces Base at Petawawa, projects a shortfall of $3.4 million as a result of the change ..." (baytoday.ca, North Bay media)

 

[brihard]

So why have the provinces been able to get away with price-gouging the military for so long?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Good. We should not be getting  special treatment and jumping the line at hospitals for specialists appointments and MIRs. If we use provincial services we need to wait like everyone else. How this impacts operations with more people not deployable and on tcats are problems for commanders to figure out.

I don't personally agree with this;  should all of us in the CAF 'jump the queue'?  Probably not.  Should we if it can have an actual detrimental affect on operational capability?  In that case, I say yes. 

- Divers, aircrew, submariners are examples of some fairly specialized, hard-to-replace quickly NCMs and Officers who might be considered higher priority.  Our SOF community...another example.  Not only is the training to get them operational costly...we have fairly low numbers of all in those specialties pan-CAF.  Should that apply to anyone who is in an aircrew MOSID?  Nope...just the ones occupying designated flying positions.  Same for navy divers, submariners, etc.  It might be some overheard to manage (more so on the Army side, to identify/forecast high readiness units and manning) but...it might work.

Jimmy or Jane, the postie working 8-4 with no forecasted deployments in the 'expected waiting time in their province'?  Not so much of a requirement for excelled timeline healthcare, IMO.

Of course...the CAF could open up something like NDMC again, and offer everything possible in terms of specialist care...not holding my breath on that one.

 

[Quirky]

I don't personally agree with this;  should all of us in the CAF 'jump the queue'?  Probably not.  Should we if it can have an actual detrimental affect on operational capability?  In that case, I say yes. 

- Divers, aircrew, submariners are examples of some fairly specialized, hard-to-replace quickly NCMs and Officers who might be considered higher priority.  Our SOF community...another example.  Not only is the training to get them operational costly...we have fairly low numbers of all in those specialties pan-CAF.  Should that apply to anyone who is in an aircrew MOSID?  Nope...just the ones occupying designated flying positions.  Same for navy divers, submariners, etc.  It might be some overheard to manage (more so on the Army side, to identify/forecast high readiness units and manning) but...it might work.

Jimmy or Jane, the postie working 8-4 with no forecasted deployments in the 'expected waiting time in their province'?  Not so much of a requirement for excelled timeline healthcare, IMO.

Of course...the CAF could open up something like NDMC again, and offer everything possible in terms of specialist care...not holding my breath on that one.

This can quickly turn into a mess when pilots/aircrew are grounded for extended periods of time due to appointment scheduling.

 

[garb811]

So why have the provinces been able to get away with price-gouging the military for so long?

Unless we know the actual terms agreed when we (CAF) started offloading the specialty services from internal to external, I don't think I would call it price gouging.  As one of the complaints of the provinces who are speaking about this is that it was a "unilateral" decision, it is quite probable that CAF agreed to the out of province rate schedule based on the clear cut fact that we aren't members of the provincial plan, with the added bonus of being "preferred" patients who skip the wait list...

It would be interesting to know what schedule is used for all of the other pers who are under the federal vice provincial umbrellas for health care (First Nations people living on reserves; Inuit; eligible veterans; inmates in federal penitentiaries...)

 

[Furniture]

Unless we know the actual terms agreed when we (CAF) started offloading the specialty services from internal to external, I don't think I would call it price gouging.  As one of the complaints of the provinces who are speaking about this is that it was a "unilateral" decision, it is quite probable that CAF agreed to the out of province rate schedule based on the clear cut fact that we aren't members of the provincial plan, with the added bonus of being "preferred" patients who skip the wait list...

It would be interesting to know what schedule is used for all of the other pers who are under the federal vice provincial umbrellas for health care (First Nations people living on reserves; Inuit; eligible veterans; inmates in federal penitentiaries...)

I'm sure the next step will be all CAF members will have to pay provincial health fees, which is yet another pay cut described in a different way.

 

[JesseWZ]

I got to say, I’m a bit bewildered this situation passed the Globe and Mail test in somebodies office - and during an election year no less.

 

[observor 69]

And more reaction to the change:
Alberta government calls on Ottawa to reverse military health funding change
Alberta Health Minister Tyler Shandro is calling on the federal government to reverse a decision that will see provinces pick up more of the cost of treating members of the military for medical operations and other health care.

Shandro says the Alberta government was not consulted about the change, which will cost the province about $2 million per year.

Last year, the province budgeted to spend more than $22 billion on health care.

Manitoba Health Minister Cameron Friesen is also critical of the change, noting it could cost his province almost $1 million.

Global News has reported that Ottawa has been renegotiating new reimbursement agreements with provinces, which has raised fears some hospitals close to Canadian Forces bases that regularly treat military personnel could lose millions of dollars.

READ MORE: EXCLUSIVE: Federal government cuts reimbursements for military health care, hospitals on the hook for millions

Shandro says the decision is disrespectful towards the provinces and is hypocritical given Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau’s recent commitments to expand medicare.
More at link.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6012947/alberta-ucp-government-military-health-funding-ottawa/

 

[211RadOp]

I'm sure the next step will be all CAF members will have to pay provincial health fees, which is yet another pay cut described in a different way.

We already do in Ontario.  It is factored into the Provincial taxes.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This can quickly turn into a mess when pilots/aircrew are grounded for extended periods of time due to appointment scheduling.

Pilots are 'aircrew'...so we can include them using that term.    (ref CFA0 55-10. aircrew includes pilots, ACSO, SAR Tech, FE and AES Op).  Having said that, I should have said aircrew/flight crew...wouldn't want the Loadies etc to feel left out.  ;D

What is the mess...not tracking what you mean

 

[The Bread Guy]

I got to say, I’m a bit bewildered this situation passed the Globe and Mail test in somebodies office - and during an election year no less.

It appears the CAF is just realizing that ...

After a Global News exclusive report, the Canadian Armed Forces now admits it shouldn’t have made cuts to health care funding for its members without proper consultation. Mercedes Stephenson explains what changes are being proposed ...

 

[ModlrMike]

In defence though, members pay income tax to the province in which they reside, that is then partially spent on healthcare. A service they're not eligible to access. Then the CF has to pay non-insured rates on top. To my eye, not only do the provinces want to eat their cake and have it, they want extra icing.

Notwithstanding the bad optics on DND's part, there's more going on here.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Good. We should not be getting  special treatment and jumping the line at hospitals for specialists appointments and MIRs. If we use provincial services we need to wait like everyone else. How this impacts operations with more people not deployable and on tcats are problems for commanders to figure out.

I’m sure you would’ve felt just as strongly had you been one of the ones who sustained a serious injury during training while at CFLRS, Meaford, Wainwright, etc and had to wait for several more months on one of their superb PAT platoons awaiting proper diagnosis before proper treatment and rehab could even begin taking place. All-the-while your injury is steadily becoming worse due to incomplete and/or improper diagnoses in the first place, because more extensive testing such as bone-scans and MRIs can’t be completed on-site, right? (On that note, I’m very curious how training environments specifically will be affected by this.)

Canada/some provinces (I’d have to check if all are, but I don’t think so) have a two-tiered health-system. Civilians who can afford it pay extra to access certain services faster, outside of OHIP, thus ‘skipping the line.’ Should they be able to?

I 100% support military members having access to expedited medical/health services...on whose dime and the process by which it’s feasible remains debatable...but we’re at least worth that, are we not?

I agree with a viewpoint posted elsewhere in this thread that there are those who are in positions where tests aren’t as time sensitive, but there are absolutely circumstances where a member can’t be sitting around for weeks to months waiting for a test—that serves the interests of no one.