F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[WingsofFury]

The main reason for the presumed slant in favour of the F-35 is said to be industrial benefits obtained by the Canadian industry which till May 2013 amount to US$488 million. In addition the Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) and the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF)are said to favour the F-35 having had an opportunity to extensively evaluate the U.S.
end

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a load of horse poop.  In an earlier post I admitted that I was wrong regarding the offering of industrial benefits and that SAAB had offered a significant package to a potential buyer - why couldn't they do the same for Canada?

As well, how exactly does SAAB expect a country to extensively evaluate a plane which doesn't even exist yet?

I get they don't want to admit that on the capability side they're behind types like the Typhoon, Rafale, and even the -35, but to state that the problem is something which you have the best solution for is wrong.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Cabinet will make the final decision on whether the government should go ahead with a 2010 plan to acquire a fleet of F-35 stealth fighter aircraft without advice or recommendations from Public Works’ National Fighter Procurement Secretariat now in the midst of an exhaustive “options analysis” that include three other fighter jet options along with the F-35, bureaucrats in charge of the review have disclosed.

A committee of Cabinet will be presented with information that is being gathered in the review, including aircraft capabilities and their ability to meet Canada’s requirements under the missions outlined in a defence strategy the government established five years ago, as well as cost and industrial benefits for Canada, but the senior officials presenting the information will provide Mr. Harper (Calgary Southwest, Alta.) and his Cabinet with no advice or any recommendations about which aircraft to choose, one of the senior officials supervising the review told a media briefing last Friday.

“We’re not going to make a recommendation of a particular solution, what we’re going to present are the options available, the choices will have to be made about what option to pursue, that’s not what our role is, our role really is to put all the options out on the table,” the official said at the briefing, which the Public Works and Government Services Department arranged on condition that the four officials would not be identified ....

Hill Times, 4 Jun 13

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

That's not good for the project. It completely removes any non-partisan fig leaves of cover for the project, which means it's all too easy for a future government to cancel it.

 

[Haletown]

That's not good for the project. It completely removes any non-partisan fig leaves of cover for the project, which means it's all too easy for a future government to cancel it.

Could be,  but it will likely depend more on the analysis results and how they are presented.  The results should include the comparable costs, capabilities and limitations for all the aircraft involved and if they do it properly, the conclusion will be obvious without someone in the Secretariat having to apply a neon yellow highlighter to the obvious choice.  They can "select" the best choice without actually doing so.

The other and likely bigger factor will the status of the JSF program at the decision time.  If the program continues to make good progress as it has recently done, it will give the usual cadre of JSF haters much less ammunition to play with. 

The fig leaf may flutter in the breezes but if the government has any PR capabilities, they should be able to handle it.

One thing for sure, the MSM will provide an endless barrage of their same old stupidities, provide a soapbox for the usual cadre of anti-military "Peace at Any Price as Long as Someone Else Pays" crowd, poorly researched drive by smears and other forms of journalistic stand up comedy routines. 

Should be interesting to watch it all play out.

 

[Loachman]

There are too many aerospace businesses in Quebec lined up for hefty contracts for either the Liberals or NDP to cancel this one easily.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well the Typhoon appears to come with a handy easy to use workshop manual, certainly something that the F35 does not have....

http://www.haynes.co.uk/Press/Releases_HTML/130520-RAF-Typhoon-haynes-PR.htm

 

[The Bread Guy]

The National Fighter Procurement Secretariat has released the third questionnaire to industry in order to obtain information on potential industrial benefits to Canada. This engagement is part of the evaluation of options to replace Canada’s CF-18 fleet, a key component of the Government’s Seven-Point Plan.

Companies participating in the market analysis are invited to complete the Industrial benefits questionnaire by August 2, 2013. The information gathered through this industry engagement request supports a rigorous examination of available fighter aircraft options against the missions outlined in the Canada First Defence Strategy. This third questionnaire is complemented by previous questionnaires on Capability, production and supportability and Price ....

PWGSC Info-machine, 7 Jun 13

Links to:

• "Industrial Benefits Questionnaire"
• "Final Industry Engagement Request: Capability, Production and Supportability Information Questionnaire"

 

[Quirky]

Well the Typhoon appears to come with a handy easy to use workshop manual, certainly something that the F35 does not have....

http://www.haynes.co.uk/Press/Releases_HTML/130520-RAF-Typhoon-haynes-PR.htm

Better than our current one for the CF-18's...

 

[SupersonicMax]

Well the Typhoon appears to come with a handy easy to use workshop manual, certainly something that the F35 does not have....

http://www.haynes.co.uk/Press/Releases_HTML/130520-RAF-Typhoon-haynes-PR.htm

You realize it is not actually a maintenance manual, but rather a book that talks about the Typhoon in general aimed at the general population?

 

[Jacky Tar]

Well the Typhoon appears to come with a handy easy to use workshop manual, certainly something that the F35 does not have....

http://www.haynes.co.uk/Press/Releases_HTML/130520-RAF-Typhoon-haynes-PR.htm

You realize it is not actually a maintenance manual, but rather a book that talks about the Typhoon in general aimed at the general population?

I'm pretty sure there was an implied <joke> ... </joke> tag pair there...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Quite so Jacky Tar  :nod:

I would not doubt that as an April fools joke the Aircraft Service types would be looking into a open panel and consulting one of these as the Pilot passes by...... ;D

 

[Jacky Tar]

Quite so Jacky Tar  :nod:

I would not doubt that as an April fools joke the Aircraft Service types would be looking into a open panel and consulting one of these as the Pilot passes by...... ;D

That would be a camera moment, alright... and if the bookshelf in the maintenance bay also had another couple of Haynes manuals (http://www.amazon.ca/Star-Trek-U-S-S-Enterprise-Haynes/dp/1451621299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371225346&sr=8-1&keywords=Haynes+star+trek and http://www.amazon.ca/Star-Trek-Klingon-Bird---Prey/dp/145169590X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1371225411&sr=8-2&keywords=Haynes+star+trek), it would be just about perfect

 

[WingsofFury]

One of two major announcements from the Paris Air Show today.

CAE and Lockheed Martin Sign MOU on F-35 Training

News release from Lockheed and CAE:

PARIS, June 17, 2013 – On the first day of the 2013 Paris Air Show, a new alliance between Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] and CAE [TSX and NYSE: CAE] was announced when officials from both companies signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) for F-35 Lightning II training system support and services in Canada. CAE is a global leader in modeling, simulation and training for defence and civil aviation.

“Canadian industry has played an integral part in the development and production of the F-35 for more than a decade,” said Steve O’Bryan, vice president of F-35 Program Integration and Business Development. “Canada’s industrial contribution to this program has truly just begun. The new alliance we established today is indicative of the long-term role Canadian industry will hold in the global sustainment of the F-35 fleet for the next 30 years and beyond, and directly supports the evolution of training systems, one of the key industrial capabilities recently promoted by the Government of Canada.”

During a ceremony held at the Canadian Pavilion at the Paris Air Show, O’Bryan and Gene Colabatistto, group president, Military Products, Training and Services at CAE, signed the MOU that identifies Quebec-based CAE as a preferred provider of in-country F-35 training support, training system integration, operations and maintenance.

“CAE and Lockheed Martin have a longstanding and successful relationship on other platforms such as the C-130, and we look forward to extending our collaboration should the Government of Canada select the F-35,” Colabatistto said. “Simulation-based training continues to grow in importance for defence forces as a cost-effective means of ensuring mission readiness, and CAE is focused on ensuring that the Royal Canadian Air Force has the world-class training services it needs to achieve targeted mission readiness levels.”

Headquartered in Bethesda, Md., Lockheed Martin is a global security and aerospace company that employs about 118,000 people worldwide and is principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration, and sustainment of advanced technology systems, products, and services. The Corporation’s net sales for 2012 were $47.2 billion.

 

[WingsofFury]

And the second...

Magellan Aerospace Signs MOU With BAE on F-35

News release from Magellan Aerospace:

PARIS AIR SHOW, Le Bourget, June 17, 2013 /CNW/ – Magellan Aerospace has signed a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) with BAE Systems for work on the F-35 Lightning II program. Under the agreement Magellan will produce more than 1,000 sets of horizontal tails for the Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) variant of the F-35 program over a 20-year period.  The agreement, announced today at the Paris Air Show, Le Bourget, formalizes the continuation of the strategic relationship between BAE Systems and Magellan.

Magellan will produce F-35A horizontal tail assemblies using components that require advanced composite manufacturing, machining capabilities, and strict quality standards. The majority of the components used for the assembly are produced in Magellan’s divisions.  The horizontal tail production under the MOA has a potential value of over Cdn. $1.2 billion over the life of the program. Magellan has achieved sales of more than $100M Cdn. on the F-35 program to date.

Today’s signing represents another milestone of Magellan’s strategic involvement on the F-35 program.  “We have supported Magellan’s journey to become a key supplier of complex, flight critical components requiring high-technology, and high-quality manufacturing capabilities to produce the components to the exacting specifications demanded of this global program,” said Paul Burns, Global Procurement & Supply Chain Director, BAE Systems.

Magellan is a part of the global F-35 team that includes world-class aerospace companies representing all eight JSF partner nations. Magellan’s potential value of F-35 manufacturing work is approaching Cdn. $2.0 billion.

“At Magellan, we are proud to be an integral part of the F-35 supply chain.  We’ve produced parts that are flying on all three variants, and for planes that will fly in four of the partnering nation’s air forces,” said Jim Butyniec, President and CEO of Magellan Aerospace. “We look forward to seeing the first Magellan-built horizontal tail assembly fly on a production F-35 in early 2014.”

About Magellan Aerospace:

Magellan Aerospace is a global, integrated aerospace company that provides complex assemblies and systems solutions to aircraft and engine manufacturers, and defence and space agencies worldwide. Magellan designs, engineers, and manufactures aeroengine and aerostructure assemblies and components for aerospace markets, advanced products for military and space markets, industrial power generation, and specialty products. Magellan is a public company whose shares trade on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX: MAL), with operating units throughout Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom, India, and Poland.

 

[NLockhart]

Haletown,

Just wondering why you think the F-35 is the right fighter for the RCAF?

 

[Haletown]

Haletown,

Just wondering why you think the F-35 is the right fighter for the RCAF?

Best combination of performance capabilities, price, long term support and upgrades and inter allied operability.  The JSF brings a lot of superior technology, especially the combination of LO and situational awareness/EODAS stuff that will provide RCAF pilots with the best chance to go in harm’s way and get back alive to fly again another day. 

The JSF comes with all the mission capabilities built in, we don’t need any bolt on additions and the capabilities will get better as digital processing power improves and is swapped out and new software expands functionality.  Excellent aircraft now and it has been designed to be continually improved, with the least amount of pain, over time.
We are acquiring a platform that will be in inventory for 40+ years.  Super Hornets will be out of production in a  few  years and on the way to retirement.  Rafales, Gripens  and Typhoons are  excellent aircraft but are really small production volume, very expensive and bring additional logistics and upgrade issues long term.  Issues the RCAF doesn’t need and can avoid by  acquiring the JSF.

That the JSF Program provides extensive and lucrative industrial offsets/benefits for Canadian industry is nice-to-have, but not the main driver in my support for the JSF.

 

[GR66]

Totally out of my lanes question here...

One of the major selling points of the F-35 vs. a cheaper missile carrier is its sensor capability.  Would it be possible to have an F-35 act as a form of "mother ship" and transmit it's information to helmet mounted HUD's in nearby less "capable" aircraft?  I know it's a hypothetical question at this point but it seems to go along with the model of what some are suggesting for swarms of armed UAV's. 

 

[MilEME09]

Totally out of my lanes question here...

One of the major selling points of the F-35 vs. a cheaper missile carrier is its sensor capability.  Would it be possible to have an F-35 act as a form of "mother ship" and transmit it's information to helmet mounted HUD's in nearby less "capable" aircraft?  I know it's a hypothetical question at this point but it seems to go along with the model of what some are suggesting for swarms of armed UAV's.

Why not just buy an AWACS then?, problem with drones is the limits on them such as speed, operational range, and weapons load out. If your drone fires its only two AIM-9's you have an expensive target, that probably can only intercept for a few seconds.

 

[MarkOttawa]

At the moment the F-35 (and F-22) has problems communicating with 4th gen. fighters:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-seeks-information-on-connecting-4th-and-5th-gen-fighters-382396/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Haletown]

At the moment the F-35 (and F-22) has problems communicating with 4th gen. fighters:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-seeks-information-on-connecting-4th-and-5th-gen-fighters-382396/

Mark
Ottawa

or  different way to look at it is that the old technology planes can't communicate fully with modern, technically advanced planes.

So which aircraft has "the problem"?  :nod: