F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[Haletown]

The Dutch reduction of planned F-35s is 29 (85 to 56), some 35%.

Mark
Ottawa

But the Japanese  announced a 42 plane buy so the Order Book is +13.

 

[AlexanderM]

If the price starts coming down, a number of countries might just step their orders back up, like us, and that will only bring the price down more.  I think our initial purchase dollar figure was 7 billion. Is that correct? So, to go back to 80 aircraft we need a price of around 87 million each. Yes?

 

[dapaterson]

No.  Canada's budget includes necessary infrastructure upgrades, support conversion costs, sparing and other items.  The per-unit cost is only one of many items that will decide the final size of the purchase.

Perhaps the biggest item in determining the future fleet size is not related to acquisition; rather, it's the recurring operating cost.  Buying more but being unable to fly them would be pointless.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Latest from MERX (also here if MERX link doesn't work) - highlights mine:

.... DESCRIPTION OF REQUIREMENT:  To conduct an independent review of the steps taken up to June 2012 in the acquisition process for the replacement of the Department of National Defence's CF-18 fleet.

(....)

A Bidders conference is scheduled for October 31, 2012, to ensure a clear understanding of the requirement and to answer Bidder's questions. Bidders are encouraged to submit their questions or concerns prior to the bidder's conference ....

More details in the Statement of Work and list o' qualified vendors here.

Note, this is different than the last consultants' call to find someone to "Review .... the Department of National Defence (DND) acquisition and sustainment project assumptions with respect to the estimated costs for next generation fighter jet".

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... from the PWGSC Info-machine:

Public Works and Government Services Canada on behalf of the National Fighter Procurement Secretariat, today issued a Request for Proposal (RFP) to obtain the services of a firm to conduct an independent review of the steps taken up to June 2012 in the acquisition process for the replacement of the CF-18.

Progress is being made on all elements of the seven-point action plan. This is one of several activities that need to be completed before conclusions about replacing the CF-18 will be presented to the Government.

The goal of this independent review is to:

    determine whether the shortcomings the Auditor General identified in the acquisition process have been addressed;
    confirm whether the steps taken in the acquisition process for the period up to June 2012 were in accordance with government policies, procedures and regulations; and
    provide lessons learned and propose recommendations for changes, if any, to current practices and policies for acquisitions of a similar nature.

The contract is expected to be awarded in December 2012.

This review will not question the work of the Auditor General as the Government has accepted his findings and recommendation.

This independent review is focused on the acquisition process; it differs from the work being undertaken by KPMG. KPMG has been commissioned by the Treasury Board Secretariat of Canada to independently review the cost of the F-35.

The National Fighter Procurement Secretariat will manage the work conducted under this independent review. Procurement information about the review is posted on the Government of Canada’s tendering system hosted on MERX.

Remember where you read it first 

 

[thunderchild]

Why not include a requirement that LM must provide 65 F-16 block 60 aircraft at cost if the F-35 is delayed further in development or cost beyond 2015.  That way we would have an in term advanced aircraft to take the pressure off the CF-18 fleet and train on a more advanced aircraft. This would also allow us to ensure the F-35 is as capable as we need by still buying at peek production.  If not we have new air fame's to give us time  to asses a replacement?

 

[Kirkhill]

I'm not particularly bothered about a year or so delay on a piece of kit that is going to last decades.  No project in the history of man has ever come in on time and on budget.  All that happens is that Project Managers keep being fired until the money flow stops.  At that time project completion is declared and the last man standing is given a medal and/or promoted.

This project will be no different than the Pyramids - And I suspect the Great Khufu still wasn't satisfied with that finished product either.  Cheap, Quick and Good are still Socratic Ideals found only in Utopia.

 

[Infanteer]

No project in the history of man has ever come in on time and on budget. 

I think the C-17 and CH-47 projects did, didn't they?

 

[OldSolduer]

I think the C-17 and CH-47 projects did, didn't they?

If memory serves me correctly, General Hillier rammed these through. And I do believe, not certain, they were on time and budget.

There certainly wasn't the hullabaloo from the media over them.

 

[Journeyman]

Why not include a requirement that LM must provide 65 F-16 block 60 aircraft at cost if the F-35 is delayed further in development or cost beyond 2015.

I suspect that introducing a third fighter type, with its inherent training, support, and infrastructure costs, will not be the budgetarilly-restrained course of action.

 

[Danjanou]

I suspect that introducing a third fighter type, with its inherent training, support, and infrastructure costs, will not be the budgetarilly-restrained course of action.

Plus it would give the NDP and brother Stephen S just so much more to rip their hair out over. ok maybe no Stephen. 8)

 

[thunderchild]

IF the F-35 is delayed past the life of our current fleet would it not be prudent to have a plan for an in-term fighter? I suggested the F-16 as it is a LM product and  training for  pilots and ground crew could be done by the USAF, The 65 vipers could then be sold back to LM or another operator like Israel or Korea which currently fly the type.  Those funds could go towards the purchase of more F-35's. just a thought.

 

[HB_Pencil]

IF the F-35 is delayed past the life of our current fleet would it not be prudent to have a plan for an in-term fighter? I suggested the F-16 as it is a LM product and  training for  pilots and ground crew could be done by the USAF, The 65 vipers could then be sold back to LM or another operator like Israel or Korea which currently fly the type.  Those funds could go towards the purchase of more F-35's. just a thought.

Two things. First, you can order an F-35 today, delivered in 2014~2015 that will only require one or two upgrades to get it to block III (operational) standard. Ones ordered in 2016 will be at the Block III standard... and you can be reasonable confident of the price an delivery day. The main impediment to that is cost; the program is early in the manufacturing phase and requires more time to develop efficiencies to bring it down. Current order cost is I think around $90~100 million for a 2014 delivery. This is why the RCAF is waiting until 2019~2022 to get deliveries: it wants the cheapest F-35s as possible, around $85 million a copy (with some canadian modifications.)

Second, the RCAF could push the CF-18 life into the mid 2020s if it needed to. It just means that its ability to conduct overseas operations will likely be limited.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think the C-17 and CH-47 projects did, didn't they?

With respect to the C-17:  Yes General Hillier did manage to buy 4 stock C-17s off of an open production line that had already produced a couple of hundred vehicles, and that was in danger or being shut down, at the price he wanted to pay.  But the C-17 itself?

C-17 BEHIND SCHEDULE AND OVER BUDGET

With respect to the CH-47.  16 with and option for 17 were requested, IIRC.  15 were purchased.  Interim versions were also purchased to absorb a delay in delivery.  The first of the new ones are still being certified.

I guess it all depends on your definition of Mission Accomplished.

 

[Haletown]

If memory serves me correctly, General Hillier rammed these through. And I do believe, not certain, they were on time and budget.

There certainly wasn't the hullabaloo from the media over them.

There certainly was over the C 17.  Airbus got their nose under tent and fed stories to media types and Quebec. MPs that the directed procurement was wrong, that the A400 was a better option and blah, blah, blah.  The usual suspects did the usual stuff. 

It was quite the little tempest in a teapot at the time.

And the A400 is still not in production and is yet to achieve finale certifications. 

 

[Haletown]

Good read . . .

http://www.cdfai.org/PDF/F-35%20and%20the%20Future%20of%20Canadian%20Security.pdf

 

[Haletown]

More good news . . .  I am sure CBC will have this in their lead blocks on all their news shows today.

"EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. -- A major step in the building the Air Force's F-35A Lightning II training program was accomplished when the 33rd Fighter Wing completed the training and flying portion of the service's operational utility evaluation on schedule Nov. 15.

Four pilots began training when the evaluation started Sept. 10, expecting it to last approximately 65 days. Six weeks of academic training and 24 sorties later, they are all fully-qualified F-35A pilots.

"We were able to conduct the flying portion in less than half the time than we planned for because things went so well with the flying, weather was good, maintainers were doing a great job getting jets out on the line and instructors were doing a good job of teaching these guys," said Col. Andrew Toth, 33rd Fighter Wing commander.

From no experience to fully qualified joint strike fighter pilot was the hallmark of the success according to wing leaders and instructor pilots.

Lt. Col. Eric Smith, 58th Fighter Squadron director of operations and first Air Force F-35 instructor pilot, recalled leading one of four OUE students, Maj. Joseph Scholtz, during an Instrument qualification course Nov. 9.

"Four weeks before the first pilot qualified, he was an A-10 pilot at Nellis Air Force Base (Nev.) and hadn't been involved much in the F-35 program other than what he read in the news "


rtr  . . .    www.air-attack.com/news/article/4910/11-15-2012-F-35A-operational-utility-evaluation-events-completed.html

 

[WingsofFury]

The F-35 and High Angle of Attack Flight Testing

2012-11-19 According to a Lockheed Martin Press Release:

An F-35A Lightning II conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) aircraft rapidly expanded its high angle of attack (AOA) test envelope to its 50 degree limit in only four flights during recent flight testing here.

F-35A test aircraft are limited to AOAs of 20 degrees until their controllability is proven at a higher AOA limit of 50 degrees.

The ability to rapidly progress to the maximum AOA indicates a sound aerodynamic and flight control system design.

High AOA testing will continue on the F-35A for several months testing the capabilities of all design loadings and the flight control system.

Link with video -- http://www.sldinfo.com/the-f-35-and-high-angle-of-attack-flight-testing/

 

[observor 69]

Navy's Move To Growler 70% Complete; Build-Up Reflects Stealth Doubts

WHIDBEY ISLAND, WASHINGTON: "Every two weeks, we get another Growler," Cmdr. Christopher Middleton said at the Navy's electronic warfare hub here. The Navy target is to buy 114 EA-18G Growler aircraft. And it's those Growler aircraft that will be the cutting edge of future Naval strikes against future "anti-access area denial" defenses like those being built by China.
To break through such defenses, the Navy is very publicly working on a joint "AirSea Battle" concept with the Air Force, but the two services have taken starkly different approaches to defeating enemy radar.
The Air Force retired its last radar-jamming aircraft in 1998 and placed its bets on radar-evading stealth aircraft: the twin-engine F-22 Raptor and its single-engine cousin the F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter, both built by Lockheed Martin. The Navy has taken the exactly opposite path. While it will eventually (and somewhat reluctantly) acquire its version of the F-35, the Navy continues to buy both non-stealthy attack planes and powerful jamming aircraft to blind enemy radars: the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and its electronic warfare variant the EA-18G Growler, both built by Boeing.

Navy leaders have long been skeptical of stealth, and for good reason. Stealth certainly shrinks an aircraft's radar return, but it cannot eliminate it. And because Moore's Law doubles available computing power every 18 months, radar systems just keep getting ever better at detecting the subtle clues of a stealth plane's presence. From a Navy perspective, the only sure way to keep a radar from seeing you is to jam it -- and then, ideally, to blow it up.


Rest of article at LINK

 

[WingsofFury]

F-35 begins integration phase of weapons testing

Posted 11/20/2012  Updated 11/20/2012

by Laura Mowry and Jess Lozano
412th Test Wing Public Affairs and 461st Flight Test Squadron

11/20/2012 - EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AFNS) -- The Joint Strike Fighter began the integration phase of weapons testing Oct. 26, when the F-35A Conventional Takeoff and Landing aircraft successfully completed the first in-flight test with an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile.

It was the first time a weapon communicated with the aircraft during flight using a data link.

The program's milestone rounded out a successful month of flight test for the program, which also included inert weapons separation tests of both the AMRAAM and Joint Direct Attack Munition.

"In October, we were able to begin weapons separation testing with the JDAM and AMRAAM," said Col. Roderick L. Cregier, 412th Test Wing, F-35 program manager. "We proved we can carry them safely and that the shapes, which matched the exact mass properties of the real weapons, could separate from the aircraft safely. Now, with the integration testing, we've initially proved the aircraft can talk to the weapon and that the weapon can talk to the aircraft."

Complete article can be found here ->  http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123327144