F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[SupersonicMax]

2.5B euros for 32 airframe = $US86.6M per airframe.

Say it ain't so...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Does that include engine?

 

[WingsofFury]

Does that include engine?

No - engines have been a separate buy ever since the F-16A came about.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am so waiting for the day the planes arrive and there are no engines to be had. That will be the ultimate "fitted for, but not with"  ;D

 

[MarkOttawa]

One trusts RCAF and USN doing some sharing about this:

Officials extend F/A-18 Hornet service lives

The aging F/A-18 Hornet fleet will remain the bulk of the Navy's strike fighter power into the next two decades, forcing the service to extend the airframe's life from its initial 6,000 hours to 10,000 and possibly beyond.

About 40 F/A-18 A-D Hornets went through upgrades at Fleet Readiness Center Southwest in San Diego in the last fiscal year, according to Naval Air Systems Command statistics, and 50 more are scheduled for the current fiscal year.

Those revamped Hornets will stay in service as the Navy transitions to the F-35C Lightning II joint strike fighter in the next decade, with F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets remaining in squadrons through the 2030s, the Navy's air boss said in his first sit-down interview with Navy Times.

"[The Super Hornets] are kind of — I don't want to say gap-fillers — but they will be the biggest chunk of our carrier fleet through the middle to the end of the next decade," said Vice Adm. Mike Shoemaker, who took over Naval Air Forces Jan. 22. "So as we have used those legacy Hornets, we have had to extend their life to get through to when we can introduce JSF."..

The Navy has been the F-35's smallest customer so far, ordering two new aircraft for 2015, which lawmakers doubled to four. In the first seven years of production, the Navy has ordered 30 F-35s. The Navy has ordered four of the stealth fighters for fiscal 2016.

The Marine Corps, by contrast, requested six F-35Bs and the Air Force requested 26 F-35As, bringing their totals to 66 and 130, respectively.

Some experts, including Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia,have said the Navy's low buy-in is a symptom of ambivalence toward the F-35's high-tech advancements, including stealth capabilities...
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/tech/2015/03/07/fa-18-service-life-extension-strike-fighter-f-35/24381745/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[CougarKing]

Those following the "Who should own CAS?" thread may want to read this as well, since it plays right into the hands of those who support keeping the A-10 flying that long:

Military.com

F-35 Will Not Reach Close-Air-Support Potential Until 2022

Mar 09, 2015 | by Kris Osborn
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter pilots will have to wait until 2022 to fire the U.S. military's top close-air-support bomb after the Small Diameter Bomb II enters service in 2017, JSF officials explained.

The Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) is an upgrade from previous precision-guided air-dropped weapons because of its ability to track and hit moving targets from up to 40 miles. However, the F-35 will not have the software package required to operate the bomb loaded onto the fifth generation fighter until 2022, officials said.

The delay in getting the SDBII onto the F-35 will reduce the aircraft's ability to provide close-air support to ground troops. It plays a role in the debate over the aircraft's ability to adequately fulfill the mission of the A-10 Warthog if Air Force officials are allowed by Congress to retire the close-air-support aircraft.

Air Force leaders renewed their intent to retire the A-10 by 2019 in February with its budget proposal. Officials said the Air Force needs to transfer resources being used to support the A-10 over to the development of the Joint Strike Fighter. Air Force leaders have said the F-35 will be one of many aircraft that will backfill the A-10.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[MarkOttawa]

Further to this post on extending life of USN legacy Hornets in view of slow F-35C acquisition,
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/22809/post-1356484.html#msg1356484

this from the CNO is rather interesting:

...
U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert said on Tuesday [March 10] he expected to complete work this week on a list of "unfunded priorities" for Congress that may include some F/A-18E/F Super Hornets.

Greenert said the Navy faced a possible shortfall of two to three squadrons of strike fighters, or up to 36 airplanes, on aircraft carriers in the 2020s, given how long it is taking to service older F/A-18 aircraft.

Navy officials have previously expressed concern that their "legacy" Hornets — the F/A-18A/B and F/A-18C/D fighters — are aging faster than expected, requiring more work to address corrosion and other issues. The first Hornet, developed and built by St. Louis-based McDonnell Douglas, entered operational service in 1983.

Greenert told reporters the Navy would have a better estimate of the projected shortfall in about 15 months after more work had been done on the legacy Hornets.

"If they can be extended, it really suppresses the problem, if they can't be extended, it exacerbates the problem," he said.

But it remains unclear if Congress will fund any additional Boeing aircraft given competing demands for resources and uncertainty about whether lawmakers will agree to lift congressional budget caps that are due to resume in fiscal 2016...
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/boeing-says-it-s-optimistic-about-extending-st-louis-fighter/article_edb5dbe7-7978-5ce6-9ea1-3f17d917e220.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

1) More on USN fighter situation:

CNO Greenert Warns Congress of Fighter Shortfall, Boeing Super Hornet Line to Close in 2017 Absent New Orders
...
Adm. Jonathan Greenert explained the problem as a multifaceted one: the Navy is working to extend the life of its legacy Hornets, the Boeing F/A-18 A-D Hornet frames. “We’re finding that’s it’s very complicated and it’s harder than we imagined,” he said [emphasis added--RCAF implications]?]. So as the Navy depots keep the legacy Hornets out of commission for longer, the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets are picking up the slack and eating through flying hours faster than planned.

“So we’re taking life out of them, if you will, sooner than we wanted to,” Greenert said, even though the Navy needs the Super Hornets to stay in its airwings alongside the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter through 2040...
http://news.usni.org/2015/03/12/cno-greenert-warns-congress-of-fighter-shortfall-boeing-super-hornet-line-to-close-in-2017-absent-new-orders

2) And USAF F-15 service extension:

Boeing To Select F-15 EW Upgrade Contractor In May

Boeing is expected to announce the winner of a multibillion-dollar program to modernize the F-15’s electronic self defenses in May.

The $7.6 billion Eagle Passive/Active Warning and Survivability System (Epawss) is part of a larger effort to finally upgrade the F-15 fleet as it is expected to remain in service to 2040, longer than planned due to the slow introduction of F-35s into the fleet and fewer-than-expected F-22s being procured for the air superiority mission. For more than a decade, Air Force leaders vowed to spend as little as possible upgrading legacy fourth-generation fighters in hopes of a swift shift to an all-stealth, fifth-generation fleet. Poor program management and high cost, however, has forced the service to rethink its plans.

The service will upgrade up to 413 F-15Cs and F-15Es with the Epawss system, according to Air Combat Command (ACC) officials. Air Force acquisition officials say the life-cycle cost of the upgrade is $7.6 billion, a hearty sum given the service’s earlier plans to stifle resources for legacy fighters...
http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-select-f-15-ew-upgrade-contractor-may

Note both Super Hornets and Eagles/Strike Eagles now expected to fly until 2040.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[WingsofFury]

All the more reason the SLAM Eagle should be pitched instead of the Super Bug..apart from the fact that it's a far better and capable platform.

 

[MarkOttawa]

More on USN, F-35C, legacy Hornets and Super Hornets:

World Events, F-35 Delays Drive Hornet Push

The US Navy's case for requesting more Boeing-made F/A-18 Super Hornet strike fighters rests with two issues: requirements and replacements.

It's been only two years since the US Navy quit buying F/A-18 Super Hornet strike fighters — part of a long-planned transition to the F-35C joint strike fighter — but a confluence of events has led to the new possibility that more attack aircraft could be ordered from Boeing.

...a strike fighter shortfall the Navy thought it could manage by a variety of methods is being further exacerbated, and it seems highly likely that when the new unfunded requirements list is submitted to Congress by mid-March, it will include a request for new Super Hornets.

...the legacy Hornets need to keep flying longer. While they were rated up to a lifespan of 6,000 flying hours, the Navy figures it needs a service life extension program (SLEP) to get 150 of those planes out to 10,000 hours [anything for RCAF to learn?]...

Another key factor, [Rear Adm. Mike] Manazir [Navy's director of air warfare] noted, is the Super Hornet mid-life refit program expected a decade from now.

"I have to get 563 Super Hornets out to 9,000 hours," he noted. "Ten years from now I'm going to be in the middle of SLEP'ping 563 airplanes. Do I have enough depot capacity? If I can do that successfully, I can manage that risk. Procurement [of new aircraft] reduces that risk."..
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/naval-aviation/2015/03/12/navy-carriers-aircraft-fighters-strike-fighters-f-18-fa-18-super-hornet-boeing-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-jsf/70243170/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[OldSolduer]

All the more reason the SLAM Eagle should be pitched instead of the Super Bug..apart from the fact that it's a far better and capable platform.

What's a SLAM Eagle?

Infantry here. Small words please!

 

[dimsum]

What's a SLAM Eagle?

Infantry here. Small words please!

F-15K, the South Korean variant of the F-15E Strike Eagle, with some local mods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15E_Strike_Eagle#F-15K

 

[Good2Golf]

What's a SLAM Eagle?

Infantry here. Small words please!

Advanced version of the F-15E Strike Eagle, Mr. Seggie.  Enhanced radar capability as well as expanded on-board weapons, including the extended range standoff land-attack missile (SLAM-ER), hence the SLAM Eagle moniker.

Regards
G2G

 

[OldSolduer]

Thank you. most informative!

 

[MilEME09]

While I agree with the slam eagle I think the stealth crowd will need to be thrown a bone. F-15SE silent eagle any one? It was I. The south Korean competition till some underhanded BS brought the F-35 back on the table after being deemed to costly

 

[WingsofFury]

While I agree with the slam eagle I think the stealth crowd will need to be thrown a bone. F-15SE silent eagle any one? It was I. The south Korean competition till some underhanded BS brought the F-35 back on the table after being deemed to costly.

Only problem would be we would have to fund the testing and development of it...it being the Silent Eagle. That would cost a lot.

Hence why the SLAM would be good...

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

While I agree with the slam eagle I think the stealth crowd will need to be thrown a bone. F-15SE silent eagle any one? It was I. The south Korean competition till some underhanded BS brought the F-35 back on the table after being deemed to costly

The requirement for stealth is only really a requirement if the threat model has our planes flying in a SEAD role through a high air defence environment. In most ways EW is better as electronics can be more easily adapted than structures for the inevitability that radars are designed that detect the F35 by defeating its stealth.

Canada has to define what it wants and what it expects the jets to do. If it's primary task is defence of Canada and North America there is 0 requirement for stealth. If we want it to provide close support to troops (CAS and AI) than there may be some requirement though by that stage it is likely a minimal requirement. If we want them to be part of the first wave against a peer-near peer adversary than stealth is required.

 

[SupersonicMax]

You guys will be surprised to learn the F-15K is much more expensive than USD86.6M...

 

[WingsofFury]

Not surprised actually...just feel it would be a better fit than the Super Hornet option; not the F-35 option.

 

[WingsofFury]

Follow up; with that being said, $100M or so isn't too bad with that much capability in the long run.