F-22 or F-35

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Hopefully not OPSEC....with the IMP phase I and II almost complete making the new CF-188 a pretty impressive avionics platform, why wouldn't DND go Hi-Lo with the F-22, and then roll the IMP phase II-upgraded aircraft throught the U.S. Navy's Center Barrel Replacement program if we wanted to extend airframe life?

Again, I'm now probably officially beating a dead horse, but the Hi-Lo mix of F-22 with F-188 since the money has already been invested in IMP Phase I & II appears to me to make much more sense that complete abandonment of the F-188 to a single-engined F-35 (which is still an unproven commodity unlike the F-22).



Matthew. 

 

[observor 69]

You mean we'll need a new fighter once the ECP583 R2 birds aren't supportable.  I suggest you ask some of the operational pilots around Cool Pool about the 583 birds.  Your incoming CO seemed pretty excited about the capabilities when I was talking to him last week....then again, he only has several thousand hours on the Hornet....

G2G

FYI: ECP583 R2    http://www.scramble.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Boeing_(McDonnell_Douglas)_F/A-18_Hornet

 

[hauger]

Neat discussion.  Thing is though, the F-22 is not authorized for export.  Period.  Congress does not allow export.  The RAF and the RAAF have both shown up on the US doorstep with a big sack of money (with big $ signs painted on the side) looking to buy a mitt full, but were out and out denied.

Canada will be buying exactly zero F-22's.  That's the reality.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21223310-31477,00.html

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Neat discussion.  Thing is though, the F-22 is not authorized for export.  Period.  Congress does not allow export.  The RAF and the RAAF have both shown up on the US doorstep with a big sack of money (with big $ signs painted on the side) looking to buy a mitt full, but were out and out denied.

Canada will be buying exactly zero F-22's.  That's the reality.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21223310-31477,00.html

I guess someone did not tell the IDF, check reply#200 this very thread regarding whether or not Congress will export the F22.

 

[hauger]

I guess someone did not tell the IDF, check reply#200 this very thread regarding whether or not Congress will export the F22.

Standby.....

Nope.  Still no sale.  The IAF would like to buy one, and it was considered the same as the RAAF and Japan.  Export is still barred by federal law.  Congress would have to repeal or amend that law, and they have refused so far to do so.  Wanna know why?  Well, you want an F-22, but they'd much rather sell you the export-friendly (but inferior) F-35.  Maybe, eventually, sometime in the future there might be an export version of the F-22, but I wouldn't go holding my breath.

Export Article:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article2894.html

 

[tomahawk6]

F-35 moving assembly line aims to produce one fighter per day.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2008/July/F-35fact.htm

 

[karl28]

tomahawk6 

                Thanks for posting that article I found it interesting to read .  I think its amazing that there hoping for one fighter per each working day that's pretty amazing feat if they can do it .    It will be interesting also to see how the new fighter operates in a theater of operation  .       

 

[tomahawk6]

Another article about the F-35 training center scheduled to be built at Eglin AFB which will be operational in 2010 with aircraft arriving in 2011.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2008/July/Eglin.htm

 

[Lonemonk]

Canada can't afford the F-22 anyway. We'd be lucky to get the dregs of the F-35

 

[North Star]

My question is why do we need a very expensive yet advanced air superiority fighter with a degree of stealth capability?

Our primary adversary from a "Canada First" perspective is Russia. They have some fairly advanced aircraft, but with the appropriate munitions the JSF could probably stand toe to toe against them. From an expeditionary point of view, the requirement for an air superiority fighter is also a little weak. Usually, the CF is deployed as part of a multinational force and while I am all for having our own air superiority capability, we have an ally that is more than happy 90% of the time to oblige if the JSF isn't capable enough.

What we really need is a fighter with a pretty solid sustainment piece (ei...spares for years to come) and the ability to not only fight for control of the skies, but to drop bombs on the ground. The JSF fills that requirement. Besides, if congress won't export it it's not even an option.

 

[belka]

My question is why do we need a very expensive yet advanced air superiority fighter with a degree of stealth capability?

We don't. Stealth is mainly needed for a first-strike scenerio.

Our primary adversary from a "Canada First" perspective is Russia.

Even then we wouldn't stand a chance. It's simple numbers and they have more fighters than we do.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

We don't. Stealth is mainly needed for a first-strike scenerio.

Even then we wouldn't stand a chance. It's simple numbers and they have more fighters than we do.

So you advocate we roll over for any bad dog on the street and surrender our sovereignty to those that would protect us? Why are in you even in the CF?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

NINJA, Serbs took down a F 117.  Better to die on your feet then live on your knees.

 

[belka]

So you advocate we roll over for any bad dog on the street and surrender our sovereignty to those that would protect us?

No. Point is, the 65 or so aircraft that are due to replace the 18's won't be enough to protect all of Canada. They will make nice airshow jets though.

 

[aesop081]

No. Point is, the 65 or so aircraft that are due to replace the 18's won't be enough to protect all of Canada. They will make nice airshow jets though.

When are you leaving the CF ?

 

[belka]

When are you leaving the CF ?

Could you atleast TRY to stay on topic?  :

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Could you atleast TRY to stay on topic?  :

Like you did? All you do is basically whine about equipment purchases. God forbid we get something according to the great ninja. :

 

[belka]

Like you did? All you do is basically whine about equipment purchases. God forbid we get something according to the great ninja. :

What equipment purchases? God forbid the government purchases fighters from the 21st century.  :

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

God forbid you start to smarten up and actually contribute something to this forum. :

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No. Point is, the 65 or so aircraft that are due to replace the 18's won't be enough to protect all of Canada. They will make nice airshow jets though.

2 words.

NORAD

NATO

PS - I didn't realize that you were posted to CFAWC or a member of the ADC, assisting the ADA, who is also, of course the DG Air FD (but I don't have to tell you that now, do I?) to the CAS. 

No idea what I am talking about?  In your spare time, a read of B-GA-400-000/FP-000 is a good starting point.  Specifically, Chapter 1 - CF Aerospace Doctrine Authority.

Question.  In its introduction, do you think the Phoenix missile was not a 'force multiplier' against the threat it was intended to go into combat against in the Soviet arsenal?  A single airframe is not like a single shot fired from a rifle, artillery piece, or tank.

Ok.  So that was NOT 2 words.  My apologies.  8)