F-18 "Shoots" Down F-22
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Well... As they say, technology can only do so much. Even a fairly outdated fighter like the Mig-21 or Mig-29 (older variants pre-"M" type) can be deadly in the hands of a hardcore pilot. It's the man that makes the machine... Keep in mind the F-22's haven't been in service at all in length in comparison to the F-18's so it takes awhile for a pilot to become fully versed I imagine in the execution of his aircraft...
Good on that Super Hornet pilot though, that does prove that the pilot is worth more than the plane....
Good on that Super Hornet pilot though, that does prove that the pilot is worth more than the plane....
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I thought the F22 could engage targets well outside of the enemies kill zone?
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In retrospect I guess it would depend on the scenerio.
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couchcommander
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It'd be interesting to get the whole story as to how that unfolded, especially the 7.6g's.
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I believe the whole point of the Raptor is to have killed your opponent long before you're anywhere near a dogfight so I take this with a grain of salt. Probably a stunt to get the Indians to buy F-18E/F's....
M.
M.
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Luckly, there is little chance of us of having to go against a stealth fighter in the future... although I am aware that the Chinese are working on a stealth fighter at this moment (the J-XX project).
The point of a stealth fighter for the Americans is to get up close enough to launch their AIM-120 AMRAAM's before the enemy gets a chance to lock on with their missiles, especially with the new Russian and Chinese radar guided missiles that now match the range of the AMRAAM and on top of that, are now truely fire and forget. The US Air Force is lucky to get something like the Raptor. The Navy is stuck with conventional types, and one way around is to get a longer ranged missile.
The point of a stealth fighter for the Americans is to get up close enough to launch their AIM-120 AMRAAM's before the enemy gets a chance to lock on with their missiles, especially with the new Russian and Chinese radar guided missiles that now match the range of the AMRAAM and on top of that, are now truely fire and forget. The US Air Force is lucky to get something like the Raptor. The Navy is stuck with conventional types, and one way around is to get a longer ranged missile.
very true.I think what the strong point is here.if you note the heads up.on the bottom corner you will see gun shot taken.a kill by the book .not in combat.firing from the 12.so he did make a good maneuver getting his nose on the raptor.but it is far from an aircraft on the ground.couchcommander said:
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These things do happen. When the F-15 was being tested, they were finding F-5s being a match simply by virtue that when flying in formation, their onboard computers couldn't differentiate from friend or foe. I'm sure that problem has since been corrected in the last 20 years... just like whatever resulted in the F22 going down (if it were technical) being corrected.
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couchcommander
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Now I'm definitely no expert, but I know of several methods, at least one I can quote (which I will below) for foreign aircraft to get in nice and close to US aircraft without said aircraft being able to do much about it.
The one that I can find is in regards to a Su-30MK vs. F-15.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-30mk.htm
Now of course this report goes on to basically point out that this is the only aircraft that this technique can be used upon, but my point is that you cannot take for granted being able to engage the enemy on your terms.
The one that I can find is in regards to a Su-30MK vs. F-15.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-30mk.htm
Now of course this report goes on to basically point out that this is the only aircraft that this technique can be used upon, but my point is that you cannot take for granted being able to engage the enemy on your terms.
I think once the technology for which the raptor was designed catches up with it . it will be a real eye opener for most.they really are an amazing piece of equipment. Like tomahawk 6 said you can't get a gun shot on something if he's already lit you up before you were even aware of his existence
This was the explaination I read on the world affairs board regarding the incident.
"Far as Xxxxxx and I could tell it’s the only Hornet gun shot of a Raptor in existence. It was a 27th pilot (but I won’t tell who, not Xxxxxx or I). He was flying a 3,000 foot 300 knot setup against a demo configured super hornet (betting you won’t see the same from a combat configured jet – just a guess). Why they did that and how he ended up there is beyond me – but he did – I’m sure he could have avoided it (unless there was some gross mismatch I don’t know about – like fuel weight).
On the 2nd part – it was a gross violation of the ROE (that part I heard about of course), pass pretty close to the Raptor as the pictures tell the story, it was not a 135 aspect bust – just well inside the bubble, at least with 200 knots of closure and the nose in lead. Nothing like having your fangs through the floor to get a fleeting hero shot on a 130 million dollar jet eh? Pretty dumb move on his part – lucky he missed with his 50 million dollar golden BB. (or however much a super hornet costs these days – at least we know it’s less than a Raptor)…
Yyyyyy
PS – here’s a blurb we sent out a while back – this did circulate all the way through the navy – go figure, even had to answer to guys up on the hill asking questions – sometimes I really miss the Eagle jet…
"The Navy rumors are all false. We’ve flown with them on numerous occasions and they have had as much luck seeing the Raptor as a blind man. The only way we can pay them back for Red Air is with BFM because they can’t find us on BVR setups. Our standard deal with them is “you be our ACT/ACM red air and we’ll throw you a BFM bone every now and then.”
"The attached photos are being sent out across the Navy. They are the first and only shots of a Raptor getting gunned by a Super Hornet. It was a demo-configured E/F flying against XXXXXX. The setup was 9000’ LAB, 300 knots “fights on.” I don’t know how XXXXX ended up in front of the guy but he did get gunned…and nearly speared as well. Note the range, aspect and closure of the shot. FYI – the bubble is 1000’!"
"Far as Xxxxxx and I could tell it’s the only Hornet gun shot of a Raptor in existence. It was a 27th pilot (but I won’t tell who, not Xxxxxx or I). He was flying a 3,000 foot 300 knot setup against a demo configured super hornet (betting you won’t see the same from a combat configured jet – just a guess). Why they did that and how he ended up there is beyond me – but he did – I’m sure he could have avoided it (unless there was some gross mismatch I don’t know about – like fuel weight).
On the 2nd part – it was a gross violation of the ROE (that part I heard about of course), pass pretty close to the Raptor as the pictures tell the story, it was not a 135 aspect bust – just well inside the bubble, at least with 200 knots of closure and the nose in lead. Nothing like having your fangs through the floor to get a fleeting hero shot on a 130 million dollar jet eh? Pretty dumb move on his part – lucky he missed with his 50 million dollar golden BB. (or however much a super hornet costs these days – at least we know it’s less than a Raptor)…
Yyyyyy
PS – here’s a blurb we sent out a while back – this did circulate all the way through the navy – go figure, even had to answer to guys up on the hill asking questions – sometimes I really miss the Eagle jet…
"The Navy rumors are all false. We’ve flown with them on numerous occasions and they have had as much luck seeing the Raptor as a blind man. The only way we can pay them back for Red Air is with BFM because they can’t find us on BVR setups. Our standard deal with them is “you be our ACT/ACM red air and we’ll throw you a BFM bone every now and then.”
"The attached photos are being sent out across the Navy. They are the first and only shots of a Raptor getting gunned by a Super Hornet. It was a demo-configured E/F flying against XXXXXX. The setup was 9000’ LAB, 300 knots “fights on.” I don’t know how XXXXX ended up in front of the guy but he did get gunned…and nearly speared as well. Note the range, aspect and closure of the shot. FYI – the bubble is 1000’!"
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