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Ex Charging Bison (Winnipeg)

"And el_wiersema if you kick someone in the head you will be charged to the fullest extent of Military Justice, It's not worth getting in trouble for some hair headed goof who would like nothing better than to see you get arrested because he is acting like an *******. Think always, Always think"

I'm not going to literally kick someone in the head, it wouldn't be practical by any means. When's the last time you saw a protester get a swift round house our axe kick to the head? It's just not practical, but it would be amusing to watch on the evening news.
 
This is going to be mostly college art students methinks.  I know (what I consider) a decent number of other 'Peggers, and they are more or less apathetic to the whole situation, as long as it doesn't affect traffic.

Personally, I'll be there to shake hands & buy beer for the guys that make a personal sacrifice like joining up.

Also, I'm a big fan of GAPs plan.  If they want to act like protestors in a warzone, treatment should match.
 
el_wiersema said:
Wiersema, if you are going to do something stupid:
A) Don't Do It when there is a Camera around(Ref: Rodney King); and
B) Don't Do It When I am Around(Cause then I get S**t on as GPO);

Like it is said before, I don't like having to put up with whiny and disrespectful protesters either, but is it really worth spending a couple months in Club Ed?????
 
Its really not worth doing anything to them. Anything you do will be turned around to make you look bad and them look great. So your better off to just ignore them and do your training....its not worth what follows!!!
 
So, the Ex is over.  Any thoughts?

All I have to say is the papers and the tv media did an awesome job of covering the event.  They certainly seemed very pro-military to me.  Of course, have the media embedded in with the camps probably had alot to do with it.
 
Here's my impressions;

1)  The exercise was generally excellent

2)  It was exactly the training we need, given the possibility of 38 CBG pers being sent on TF08

3)  The training was very realistic, with well-planned scenarios that challenged section commanders in the infantry and armoured recce platoons/troops. They really had to think on their feet to respond to sniper, IED, human interaction situations, etc. The Comd of the US scout platoon that attended the training said that even though his platoon had done training at all the high-speed training facilities in the US, Winnipeg was the best training environment they had been to. (incidentally, he had suffered a tragic family matter and had to be replaced mid exercise. Hope the Bde sends condolences.)

4)  The ROEs had to be made more clear. For instance, a patrol of the Peoples Liberation Army was gunned down by the ISM in a drive-by shooting, within sight of one of our patrols. So, shoot or don't shoot? Was the PLA (the Militia that supported the new govt) considered an allied force that had to be supported by our guys? Or should the incident be considered to be a clash between two neutral belligerent factions, that the Task Force patrol should have just observed and stayed clear? The patrol commander opted to open fire, and then rendered 1st aid (good call) The local civvies, taking pictures on their porches and lawns were caught in the crossfire (not so good) but the locals didn't seem to mind at all!

5)  A Coy was located in Pioneer Arena on Logan ave, a dirt-poor area of the city. The locals were very supportive for the most part, more so than in Ste Boniface I'm told. Does anyone remember the "Golden Cowboy?"

6)  The American Platoon from 34 Inf Div, Minnesota National Guard was awesome, it was attached to A Coy. Several of them were Iraq veterans, and most of the platoon is going over again within a year. Very motivated, positive, fit and well-led, who had a lot of real time current operational knowledge to pass on to our guys. Had their stuff down-pat. I heard the 34 ID wanted to send an entire coy...

Most initial infantry patrols consisted of a dismounted section of Canadians, supported by a US HUMV in an overwatch role. They worked really well together.

One of the US section Comds told me they thought they were being shot at in every streetcorner downtown, because they were hearing the "beep-beep, beep-beep" that usually meant their MILES gear was signalling a near miss. They figured out later it was the audio signal the crossing lights in Winnipeg give to tell the visually impaired it was safe to cross... :)


7)  The police & city were very supportive.

8)  The "protesters" were pretty disappointing. I was looking forward to hooded firebomb throwing anarchists, but at A Coy there were only less than a dozen pathetic emaciated freaks that listlessly chalked "no blood for oil" messages on the street and stuck little bouquets of flowers into the chain-link fence, and left after a while.

9)  Two bad parts: there was not enough food prep assets, and worst of all, the end ex smoker was cancelled ! :crybaby:

38 CBG hit a home run with this ex. this has got to happen again next year, with post ex points taken into consideration and hopefully the days of dumping 2-300 troops off in Shiloh to conduct section attacks and dig holes are done. I'll write more as I remember...
 
This is a bit of a rant.

Generally, CB was better than other ex's, but it still had some major flaws. I was in Red River for the whole thing and I was in the advance party. Red River got screwed over as far as actually participating in the story of the exercise. The enemy only attacked a few times and it was always at the front gate. Only once did they try to sneak in the camp from the side and my Sgt. just happened to be in the right place at the right time and unloaded his 1 mag for the entire ex on them, other than that it was very boring for me. I didnt see any enemy at all the entire ex or fire my weapon.

Theres a million things that went wrong on CB but Im not going to read them all out. If you were in Red River than you heard about the 'Convoy from Hell', which was a freaking gong show. I was on that one. How did the planners not realise there was 2 streets with the same name right beside one another? Couldnt they have figured out a better way for the LSSR guys in the heli's to wait until we get to the ambush before landing and saving us? Oh wait, when we drove by them they shot us in our vehicles. How the hell did enemy force only have 49 rounds for the final assault on Red River? Why didnt they grab A and B coy's and have them all attack red river for the finale? Most people I heard from in Red River were not too happy with a lot of stuff like this, basically just getting no action whatsoever, DNS got a little, but not that much.

Thanks a lot Arty for not helping anyone but yourselves in Red River. FSG and DNS were doing their part and helping out with base tasks like sandbagging, putting up/taking down mods and just helping out here and there and you guys did nothing but sit in your mods and fuck the dog. When they did finally take down 2 of their 4 mod tents they folded them improperly so FSG and DNS had to repack it all. When they finally helped putting away sandbags they put them in the wrong area and after being told they were in the wrong spot just left them there for others to move for them. Many other examples. . .Thanks Arty, good team work.

Too funny how nobody was supposed to have showers for over a week, or leave the base, yet there were a ton of cars parked outside of Red River - these were the officers whose own rules didn't apply to them. Officers would walk through the front gate in the morning with their timmies coffee in front of all the troopies. Couldn't believe that one. How do GD's get showers for doing bitch work yet weapons and vtechs get none even though they get diesel, coolant, kerosene, oil, dirt and so on all over them fixing trucks, generators, heaters and who knows what else. As well, thank god noone got anything in their eye's since there was no proper eye wash station.

When the Capt. came around for the AAR on the exercise we had him for nearly an hour pointing out all the problems with CB, our LT ended the session even though we wern't finished, but we did have work to do. CB wasn't that bad, but from my perspective, and many others in Red River, it faultered because of poor planning and completely unrealisitic policies. No offense to the people who planned this, but where the hell were you for all the other ex's where the exact same problems occurred. Arn't you supposed to make changes so they don't happen again? A lot of it was just basic stuff.

Sorry for the Rant.
 
yeah, I heard there were problems in Red River camp. Defiantly the place to be was with A Coy or B sqn.

First ex I've been on where the subunits were living in hard shelters, and the FOB & task force HQ were under mod.
 
Couldnt they have figured out a better way for the LSSR guys in the heli's to wait until we get to the ambush before landing and saving us?
From what we were told. there were fuel issues that would have prevented us from deviating too long.

Oh wait, when we drove by them they shot us in our vehicles.

Well don't blame us!  You make it sound like we didn't know we were lighting up our own convoy ::)

So what if we accidentially landed a) too early, and b) right on the enemy force position.  :blotto: We secured the LZ, destroyed the enemy, and had to take over their role because they were out of ammunition, and they sent your convoy back through.

How the hell did enemy force only have 49 rounds for the final assault on Red River? Why didnt they grab A and B coy's and have them all attack red river for the finale?

This was explained to us quite well during our AAR for that attack, especially by an American 1st Sgt.  In this new generation of counter-insurgency warfare, the enemy rarely/never conducts large-scale attacks against all sides of large, fixed coalition positions.  That was the planning for the waves of Soviets in the Cold War, and doesn't represent the modern type of fighting.  A final assault where the enemy is completely crushed may give everyone a feel-good sense, but this can be seen as unrealistic.  The section of insurgents that attacked the front gate did not even have plans to enter the camp, just inflict casualties...  Before they were valiantly thwarted by D&S at the gate, my C6 team in the tower and crazed employees from the horse stables across the road. :D
 
Kirkpatrick said:
From what we were told. there were fuel issues that would have prevented us from deviating too long.

Well don't blame us!  You make it sound like we didn't know we were lighting up our own convoy ::)

So what if we accidentially landed a) too early, and b) right on the enemy force position.  :blotto: We secured the LZ, destroyed the enemy, and had to take over their role because they were out of ammunition, and they sent your convoy back through.

This was explained to us quite well during our AAR for that attack, especially by an American 1st Sgt.  In this new generation of counter-insurgency warfare, the enemy rarely/never conducts large-scale attacks against all sides of large, fixed coalition positions.  That was the planning for the waves of Soviets in the Cold War, and doesn't represent the modern type of fighting.  A final assault where the enemy is completely crushed may give everyone a feel-good sense, but this can be seen as unrealistic.  The section of insurgents that attacked the front gate did not even have plans to enter the camp, just inflict casualties...  Before they were valiantly thwarted by D&S at the gate, my C6 team in the tower and crazed employees from the horse stables across the road. :D

The fuel thing I doubt since you were prolly only in the air for a few minutes. A measly 10 mins or so would probably would have been fine.

Yes we know you knew what you were doing. Still, everyone was making fun of you guys for shooting us.

The 'realism' card was played by the officers to cover their asses for all the shit they made us go through. If the exercise was so real than the enemy would never have attacked the front gate and would have always gone to the rear where there was virtually no D&S and only 88 and 84 and a wide open fence.  Dont get me started on 'This is how it would have if we were in Kandahar' thing.

Was that the C6 that jammed and had to go through its stoppage drills every 1 or 3 rounds? Did you guys have it looked at by the Wpns techs at all?
 
Was that the C6 that jammed and had to go through its stoppage drills every 1 or 3 rounds? Did you guys have it looked at by the Wpns techs at all?

It sure was, and it also has done the same thing on every exercise we've taken it on, despite being checked by weapons techs on multiple occasions  ???  And to be fair it was every 5-6 rounds  ;) but we got 1/2 a belt expended during the firefight.
 
Yeah that whole convoy thing was messed.

I talked to the guy who was the convoy cmdr after endex, and he told me that he had not been allowed to do a route recce for the convoy, hence the wrong turn.  I was on ISCC with him, so I trust his version of events...

At the time however, I was pretty pissed off, as I was squatting in a swamp waiting for the convoy to come by so I could ambush it.  And the choppers landing on us wasn't so funny, especially after I tried to wave them off.  Three of my OPFOR troops were actually under the main rotor and within about ten feet of the tail boom when the one chopper touched down.  Very little sense of ha-ha there, even though no-one was hurt.

The funny thing was watching the troops very reluctantly and slowly dismount into said swamp.  I think if the D+S crew had been wearing their MILES like they were supposed to, the battle would have been a lot shorter.  I know I got good shots into the side doors as the choppers came down, and it took an awful long time for them to get shaken out into extended line...

Still, being OPFOR is kinda like being a monday morning quarterback, but in our case with a lot more Tim Hortons.

Speaking of which, I think the real heroes of Charging Bison were those unlucky souls at Camp Pioneer, who went without coffee of any sort for an astonishing three days.  Think of that before you complain too much about being out at Red River...
 
I was at B Coy and for the most part it was a good ex...not great ...but good.

Start with Monday 60-75 Protesters and I think about 40 of them just kind of followed the crowd as..only about 20-30 said or danced at the front gate and they came back on Friday to show us a movie....but mostly they came with very little knowledge and yea..they were very sad.

The people in the area of B Coy were great free pizza for the whole coy and beer (12 pack) which our tool of a CSM dumbed out....but we knew that would happen. Red Bull drove by and gave all the troops in the compound a free round plus the Chocolate man came and gave out some chocolate charging bison heads...not to meantion the card we received from a family saying alot of nice things about us...was really nice to see that much support in the city I grew up in and love to live in. All in All...was a good ex and the support from the area was great. I ve never had so many people wave and come talk to me before and I think the other people in the Coy were just as surprised.

As for Red River ....well what can you say when there is 150+ troops in one area and another 200 officers ..LOL...it was a jug ....  !! Plus not to meantion the fact that very little of them had any OP experience and they never asked!!! I think to many of these young officers are watching over there ...and trying to use that as experience!!! Sad but hey I'm only a cpl and they wont listen...so I just sat back and video taped them making fools of their self's!!! lol Yea Red River really had to many chiefs and not enough Indians...ahh well next year we should be better!!! LOL...ok I'm joking!!!

All in All it was a good ex and a better training area then most if not all bases in this country. Lessons learned and can be built up on now. I had one huge problem with the ex...ie convoys  The Reg force units have deployed since 2002 in Afghan...and have been working out a great way to do convoys.....why in the world didn't anyone from this ex call the strats or PPCLI and ask for their help is way beyond me. I brought this up and everyone said I was right they should have asked for help. Maybe next year....that seems to be the motto for every ex..

Anyways that was my thoughts on the ex!!!
 
Bobbyoreo said:
I had one huge problem with the ex...ie convoys  The Reg force units have deployed since 2002 in Afghan...and have been working out a great way to do convoys.....why in the world didn't anyone from this ex call the strats or PPCLI and ask for their help is way beyond me. I brought this up and everyone said I was right they should have asked for help. Maybe next year....that seems to be the motto for every ex..
The best training we had for TF1-06 was the week of stand training with the Americans that were in the AO we were RIPing from.  Hands down the best way to get your drills and SOPs down is to run them by the guys that use them everyday...
 
(Quote)
Thanks a lot Arty for not helping anyone but yourselves in Red River. FSG and DNS were doing their part and helping out with base tasks like sandbagging, putting up/taking down mods and just helping out here and there and you guys did nothing but sit in your mods and frig the dog. When they did finally take down 2 of their 4 mod tents they folded them improperly so FSG and DNS had to repack it all. When they finally helped putting away sandbags they put them in the wrong area and after being told they were in the wrong spot just left them there for others to move for them. Many other examples. . .Thanks Arty, good team work.
(End Quote)

First off, the sandbag incident was because we were instructed by your highers in the FSG to pile them there, 2nd dont you dare call my guys dog F**kers.  I bet you spent 95% of your ex in camp, every day of that ex my guys were up earlier than anyother unit because we had orders to deploy at 0700 and we could never drag anyone from the FSG away from their warm tents to fuel up our vehicles up at night so we were trying to get 12 vehicles fuled in less than 30 mins.  Once we finally got our vehicles fueled up by the remfs, we headed out to occupy gun positons all over town to provide direct and indirect support for all the units on the Ex.  To make matters worse, we were in static positons, so we had to constantly be manning sentry positions, LP, VCP and sent hourly clearing patrols to secure our position. This if you dont know this is very manpower intensive and it doesnt help when we are being further depleted by the fact that the D&S platoon is taking 5 of my guys every day.  You should come out on one of our FTX's and Stand in a Gunner's shoes before you start to criticize.
 
I think all that patrolling was good work up for my BFT today.... I kicked ass. 1 hour, 38 minutes. I was pretty happy with that
 
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