Election 2011

[Edward Campbell]

How many seats do the Conservatives need to gain in order to replace Mr Ignatieff? At least one, but probably five to eight. That being said, a Conservative majority will seal the deal. Any loss of seats for the Liberals could be construed as a rejection of Mr Ignatieff's leadership.

I think Ignatieff is toast if he gets anything less than Liberals + NDP = 155 seats and Liberals = 4 X NDP, i.e. if the Liberals get 125 seats and NDP gets 30 seats then I think Prince Michael can plead with his party that he deserves a chance to broker a deal with Taliban Jack, à la Peterson/Rae in 1985, which brings the Liberals back to power – not in a coalition, per se, but with guaranteed NDP support for, say, two years. I'm not sure the NDP will want that deal – I suspect they want a couple of seats at the cabinet table and some guaranteed budgetary provisions and either but especially both of those conditions may split the Liberals.

If Harper gets 144 or above and the BQ doesn't collapse then he can go back to parliament saying “OK, here we are again; the people have spoken and I am the people's choice. Here's the same budget – you have no moral right to defeat my government because I am back with an even larger minority and none of you are anywhere near “form a government” territory unless you form a formal coalition – which you, Prince Michael said you would not do.” My guess is that in that circumstance Jack Layton announces his retirement for health reasons* and that the NDP has no interest in a coalition before a leadership convention. That being the case I think Iggy is gone at the June Liberal convention.

I also suspect that Harper is on his way out, too. Sooner, maybe 2012 if he gets another minority, or later, maybe late fall/winter 2014 if he wins a majority.

__________
* I have met Jack Layton a few times – not enough to say I know him – and I have always found him a pleasant, likable fellow, even though I disagree with his politics and policies. I hope this campaign doesn't do his health any serious harm and I wish him every success in his fight with cancer.

 

[Redeye]

Prince Michael

Taliban Jack

With respect, just for naming conventions, can we start referring to the pompous, secretive autocrat who last held the title of Prime Minister as "Der Führer" or something?  Or perhaps, could we instead treat all the candidates with a modicum of dignity and respect, regardless or our partisan opinions?

Just a thought.

* I have met Jack Layton a few times – not enough to say I know him – and I have always found him a pleasant, likable fellow, even though I disagree with his politics and policies. I hope this campaign doesn't do his health any serious harm and I wish him every success in his fight with cancer.

I've met him too.  It's no wonder he generally comes off well in debates.  He presents his positions eloquently, he's got a very statesman-like demeanour.  Unfortunately, his policy ideas are, as army.ca Elder Statesman Mortar Guy once put it to me (I don't remember what he was describing), "Two Fingers Left Of Right The F*** Out Of 'Er."

 

[Edward Campbell]

... the pompous, secretive autocrat who last held the title of Prime Minister as "Der Führer" or something? 

I've met Harper, too; he, like Taliban Jack, is pleasant and likable. As to being "secretive" and an "autocrat," I see it as following 'tit Jean Chrétien's lead and imposing some much needed discipline on a party and caucus that are both new to power and too accustomed to being “outsiders.”

I understand that the media hates discipline because it makes “gotcha” journalism too difficult – but we Canadians should feel a bit comforted, if anything. (Some journalists like to parrot the entirely stupid idea that the “role” of journalists is “comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable,” but, of course, amongst the most “comfortable” in modern North America are the smug, self satisfied journalists, themselves. I'm glad to see Harper afflicting them for a change.)

 

[observor 69]

I've met him too.  It's no wonder he generally comes off well in debates.  He presents his positions eloquently, he's got a very statesman-like demeanour.  Unfortunately, his policy ideas are, as army.ca Elder Statesman Mortar Guy once put it to me (I don't remember what he was describing), "Two Fingers Left Of Right The F*** Out Of 'Er."

As for example during last nights French debate were Iggy is growing increasingly frustrated trying to explain to Jack why we aren't withdrawing from Afghanistan immediately after the end of our combat role.
'Like talking to the moon.'

 

[observor 69]

Go Ethnics Go !?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UE0SgN5ic&feature=youtu.be  ;D


‘Ethnic costumes’ sought for Conservative photo op
Published On Thu Apr 14 2011Email Print (22) Share95Rss Article
Comments (22)
Kenyon Wallace
Toronto Star
A group Immigration Minister Jason Kenney once characterized as harbouring “hateful sentiments” toward Israel and Jews was invited to wear “ethnic costumes” for a photo op with Conservative Leader Stephen Harper
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/974447--ethnic-costumes-sought-for-conservative-photo-op

 

[dapaterson]

So the Cons are looking for "Money and Ethnic Votes?"

>

 

[ballz]

I honestly don't understand where this idea of Jack Layton being a good debater comes from. Sure, he's got a loud/clear voice and good variation in volume/tone, maybe even a bit of charisma, and the person that writes his one-liners is above their competition... but I haven't yet seen any of them actually debate anything. No facts/figures/proof/good explanations for the laymen/etc brought forward by him or the other leaders.

We've got plenty of people on this website that can do that for god's sake. None of them are called "good debaters" for it, quite the contrary when someone runs a fact into their face.

 

[a_majoor]

We've got plenty of people on this website that can do that for god's sake. None of them are called "good debaters" for it, quite the contrary when someone runs a fact into their face.

Well, Jack did run the fact of Mr Ignatieffs attendance in parliament into his face.... >

On an earlier post, it was mentioned that a total collapse of the Liberal Party would create a new equilibrium. I have heard it sugested several times that this is actually Mr Harper's intention; remodel Canadian politics between two "big tent" parties representing the Left and Right. How true this is I canot say, but it does seem to be working itself out in the background.

 

[vonGarvin]

With respect, just for naming conventions, can we start referring to the pompous, secretive autocrat who last held the title of Prime Minister as "Der Führer" or something? 

This guy?  (As in "the last one who held the title of Prime Minister?")

???

 

[infantryian]

I have to agree with redeye. They are respectable public figures even though their values and policies may be disagreeable. Calling them Prince and Taliban I think is rude. I have been in a position to have met several politicians, including PM Martin, PM Harper. Mr. Layton, but unfortunately not Mr. Ignatieff. For the most part they are likeable people and they need to be. It is hard to garner support without charisma.

There is risk to the Tories in causing too much damage to the opposition.  They may wish to reflect on the Campbell Tories...  That ultimately ... thus pushing the Liberals to the left.

I personally would be quite happy with the Liberals going down in flames and regrouping as a Centre Right party, pushing the Conservatives to the Right. I think then there would be some intelligent debate between two right wing parties. This left or centre-right business that we have now isn't to my liking. The NDP would pick up a strong amount of support, but I don't think they would be in official opposition territory.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Well, Jack did run the fact of Mr Ignatieffs attendance in parliament into his face.... >

On an earlier post, it was mentioned that a total collapse of the Liberal Party would create a new equilibrium. I have heard it sugested several times that this is actually Mr Harper's intention; remodel Canadian politics between two "big tent" parties representing the Left and Right. How true this is I canot say, but it does seem to be working itself out in the background.

I generally divide the political spectrum this way:

    Left            Left of Centre                Centre Left                  Centre                  Centre Right                Right of Centre              Right
<===============================================================================================>

Communists
and
similar loonies
                        <------------- BQ and NDP ------------->
                                                              <------------------------- Liberals ------------------------->
                                                                                                          <-------------------------- Conservatives --------------------------->
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Christian Heritage Party
                                                                                                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                                                                                                            similar loonies

I think there is room for:

Left wing
loonies
                                    Left of Centre, Centre Left and Centre “big tent” party
                                                                                                            Centre, Centre Right and Right of Centre “big tent” party
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Right wing loonies

That means the some Liberals and most of the NDP need to merge to form the Leftish party and some Liberals and most Conservatives need to merge to for the Risghtish party.
           

 

[Dissident]

Although I too look forward to a rebirth of the Liberal party, I would rather Canadian politics not be a 2 party system. Then again I can not see how we can have a stable long lasting non minority government with 4 main parties.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I have to agree with redeye. They are respectable public figures even though their values and policies may be disagreeable. Calling them Prince and Taliban I think is rude. I have been in a position to have met several politicians, including PM Martin, PM Harper. Mr. Layton, but unfortunately not Mr. Ignatieff. For the most part they are likeable people and they need to be. It is hard to garner support without charisma.

I wholeheartedly agree.  The pejorative monikers just bring the tone of the discussion down into the gutter.  Sometimes it feels like I am visiting a neo-con version of Rabble.ca.

Just a thought.

<<Edited to remove inflammatory comment - no sense in adding fuel to the fire>>

 

[Jed]

OK, What's wrong with small jabs with wrt titles of key polititians? I am heartily sick of the sensitivity on these matters. I am heartily sick of the ever pervasive Political Correctness. 'Take a pill' or 'get a sense of Ha Ha'

 

[PPCLI Guy]

OK, What's wrong with small jabs with wrt titles of key polititians? I am heartily sick of the sensitivity on these matters. I am heartily sick of the ever pervasive Political Correctness. 'Take a pill' or 'get a sense of Ha Ha'

As a wise man once said:

When a faceless, militant organization of people use wholesale intimidation ala a gang or mob, no matter where they are on the political spectrum, that, in my opinion is 'thuggery'.

 

[infantryian]

I don't think that we should call public figures by their proper titles and names because they are too sensitive and cannot handle being called otherwise, but rather:

1. It's rude to call them names.

2. You may have an intelligent, well reasoned, and correct argument for why a particular politician would be a bad choice for the country. That argument can be tainted and loose all credibility with moderates and undecided when name calling is thrown into the mix. I think that Mr. Layton would be bad for this country because of his taxation intents and the spending that would result of the social programs being created and bolstered. Aligning him with the Taliban, an organization who seeks to kill our men and enslave our women, is simply not correct and would cause someone whom I am trying to convince to tune out.

 

[Jed]

PPCLI  :-[, Its tough when you see your own words come back at you!  ;D

Sapperian - How are thing with 46 FES?

 

[ekpiper]

I don't think that we should call public figures by their proper titles and names because they are too sensitive and cannot handle being called otherwise, but rather:

1. It's rude to call them names.

2. You may have an intelligent, well reasoned, and correct argument for why a particular politician would be a bad choice for the country. That argument can be tainted and loose all credibility with moderates and undecided when name calling is thrown into the mix. I think that Mr. Layton would be bad for this country because of his taxation intents and the spending that would result of the social programs being created and bolstered. Aligning him with the Taliban, an organization who seeks to kill our men and enslave our women, is simply not correct and would cause someone whom I am trying to convince to tune out.

I agree.  I think that nicknames of those sort tend to make one appear completely one-sided and desperate, as though they are needing to stoop to that to emphasize their points instead of the points and their evidence itself.  I think that the Conservatives would be better served if it was refrained from.

 

[PuckChaser]

Although I too look forward to a rebirth of the Liberal party, I would rather Canadian politics not be a 2 party system. Then again I can not see how we can have a stable long lasting non minority government with 4 main parties.

Federal politics has always been a 2 party system since the CPC came to be, the Liberals and the CPC. NDP and BQ have never threatened to do anything, and only the Bloc has ever been in opposition. They'll never do that again unless the separatist movement takes flight again. I see the NDP as an irrelevant fringe party, and I'm happy they're stealing votes from the Liberals.

 

[Donaill]

Lets see how irrelevant the NDP are if you have ever someone sick in your family. Tommy Douglas was a socialist. It was his party that took the first step to social medicine.  If it were not for socialist ideals of a controlled market than we would be in as bad a condition as the US.