Earning Loss Benefit ( ELB )
- Thread starter GreenBarret01
- Start date
Well here is the skinny, some people are not going to be happy. Not sure this answers the question on sisip but op brass should be happy but the troops are getting screwed
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/disparity-in-earnings-loss-benefit-for-disabled-veterans-explained/article30256008/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/disparity-in-earnings-loss-benefit-for-disabled-veterans-explained/article30256008/
Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever. The over-complexity and duplication of services/benefits is one of the fundamental flaws of our current scheme of benefits. A ground up harmonization and rationalization of veterans' benefitsis needed, with separate recognitiion for pain and suffering, and economic impacts (lost income, reduced income growth potential, actual costs/expenses resulting from injury/illness). There's needs to be harmonization between different government departments, and common definition of disability for benefits and taxation purposes. It's needlessly complex right now.
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Just spoke to my Manulife case manager:
Manulife will not be reducing their payments due to any increase in ELB payments from VAC. The founding SISIP docs state that "all sources of income" will be used in the calculation of any top up amount to 75%, but SISIP is not regarding the increase by VAC to be "income."
So that's good.
It does make me curious on what CRA will call the 90% top-up???
On the subject of Manulife/SISIP. Manulife is just the contractor and while YMMV, I have a good working relationship with both my case manager and my voc rehab coord and as an organization they hae been much easier to deal with than VAC or BPA. SISIP is a very old program with deep pockets that is not going to go anywhere anytime soon due to legislation. SISIP definitely needs to change their model and I agree totally that there needs to be a rationalization of veterans' benefits. There's so much crap been added since the end of the Boer War, soooo much of it no longer relevant, but it's all tied together. To reset everything, you have to start from scratch which means shutting down everything.
And all the politicians would see is the $billions$ it would take to just restart the programs let alone sustain them. And reshuffling capabilities means moving offices, changing position qualifications, new demands in a new system. The unions won't want that either.
Which is also the problem with the life-long pensions, but we already know that. Why the MSM doesn't seem to know that is another question entirely.
Wook
Manulife will not be reducing their payments due to any increase in ELB payments from VAC. The founding SISIP docs state that "all sources of income" will be used in the calculation of any top up amount to 75%, but SISIP is not regarding the increase by VAC to be "income."
So that's good.
It does make me curious on what CRA will call the 90% top-up???
On the subject of Manulife/SISIP. Manulife is just the contractor and while YMMV, I have a good working relationship with both my case manager and my voc rehab coord and as an organization they hae been much easier to deal with than VAC or BPA. SISIP is a very old program with deep pockets that is not going to go anywhere anytime soon due to legislation. SISIP definitely needs to change their model and I agree totally that there needs to be a rationalization of veterans' benefits. There's so much crap been added since the end of the Boer War, soooo much of it no longer relevant, but it's all tied together. To reset everything, you have to start from scratch which means shutting down everything.
And all the politicians would see is the $billions$ it would take to just restart the programs let alone sustain them. And reshuffling capabilities means moving offices, changing position qualifications, new demands in a new system. The unions won't want that either.
Which is also the problem with the life-long pensions, but we already know that. Why the MSM doesn't seem to know that is another question entirely.
Wook
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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There are definitely some benefits to having a profit motivated corp handling some files. Dominantly I suspect they can provide more efficient and effective support for those who qualify than the government can in many cases. (At the expense of those who's files are rejected, of course) Remember people who get SISP insurance paid into the program out of their own pocket, just like any other insurance company.
However, on both the private and government side, there is a bias in the fact that they are the ones who decided who qualifies and who doesn't. Perhaps taking that decision out of their hands via some independant organization? Perhaps a non-profit organization that will make the decision on benefits, and the government pays out what they decide. VAC and SISIP handle this independently of each other right now. However, both are motivated to pay out as little as possible at the starting line. Just a thought.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
Just a heads up, I logged into my VAC account and my ELB payments have been automatically adjusted showing my next month's payment.
So it's worth a look to see and plan from there with the new payments.
So it's worth a look to see and plan from there with the new payments.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
When I was going through the retirement process, I was given the Manulife paperwork with clear instructions on how to fill them out. Do this part, give the rest to your doc. Someone from Manulife will be in touch. I don't remember anyone explaining the difference between LTD and ELB. Yesterday I got a rude awakening. VAC says i'm not entitled to the 15% top up as I am not in receipt of ELB. That kinda sucks.
For those of you in the process right now and are reading this - there IS a difference between ELB and LTD!
My loss!
For those of you in the process right now and are reading this - there IS a difference between ELB and LTD!
My loss!
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 28
- Points
- 530
You may want to consider applying for the ELB. You may qualify and be approved for it, but won't receive payments for it unless you come off LTD for some reason. Think of it as a backup plan.
If you do qualify for ELB and are receiving LTD, I'm wondering if you could then make the case that you should receive the top up too?
Would have to talk to a VAC case manager about that.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Manulife is not the problem, as they were the same for me. I had my SISIP payment super quick while I waited for my pension and severance.
The issue is how SISIP and VAC purport to do the same things, have different criteria for almost everything, and actually block access to other programs offered by each other. Too much overlap, too much wasted time, effort and money.
The issue is how SISIP and VAC purport to do the same things, have different criteria for almost everything, and actually block access to other programs offered by each other. Too much overlap, too much wasted time, effort and money.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
I'm doing search all over, can't seem to find the answer to my questions. So here it goes, please be patient with me, this is all new to me.
1. Diagnosed with PTSD, got my 10%. Been told I will be reassessed Jan 2017, that being said, do they use the % my shrink originally gave me when I first got this diagnosis (76% with high scale depression and anxiety)?
2. What happen if someone cannot go to school upon release? (I can't work and I'm not recommended to attend school right now) Is that education pushed until member can?
3. After the 2yrs with SISIP, VAC kicks in. What happen if someone can only find P/T work or can only work part time (let's say 10hrs/wk), are we thrown to the curb, Hasta la Vista type, or is this ELB is a top up we qualify for until 65yrs of age?
4. Not a question, just want to say thank you for any assistance as this has been a major stressor.
1. Diagnosed with PTSD, got my 10%. Been told I will be reassessed Jan 2017, that being said, do they use the % my shrink originally gave me when I first got this diagnosis (76% with high scale depression and anxiety)?
2. What happen if someone cannot go to school upon release? (I can't work and I'm not recommended to attend school right now) Is that education pushed until member can?
3. After the 2yrs with SISIP, VAC kicks in. What happen if someone can only find P/T work or can only work part time (let's say 10hrs/wk), are we thrown to the curb, Hasta la Vista type, or is this ELB is a top up we qualify for until 65yrs of age?
4. Not a question, just want to say thank you for any assistance as this has been a major stressor.
Hey, first off, you're doing the right thing reaching out to look for supports on this. Youve got a lot of stuff ahead of yo right now.
ELB exists to protect your income if your ability to work is impacted by service related disability. It will keep you at 90% pre-release salary. If you work, the earned employment income will be offset from your ELB. I don' know the exact formula, but basically thy will top up whatever you do earn from work to your pre-release salary at 90%. You wont' be kicked to the curb. It goes til 65. If you can only work part time, that's fine.
Not sure how the reassessment will go, but VAC makes their own call on that. Get as much documentation as possible from medical pros. I suggest using a Royal Canadian Legion service officer to help you prepare your claims- they are paid employees whose full time work is helping vets with claims. http://www.legion.ca/we-can-help/contact-a-service-officer/
Not sure if you're on Facebook, but there are a couple support groups that may be of use:
Veterans 3B Support GRoup - group for medically released or releasing CAF members/vets. https://www.facebook.com/groups/432709853584762/
Send Up The Count - 9500 member group for mental helath in the CAF and veterans community. We have lots of members who have been through the process with PTSD. https://www.facebook.com/groups/sendupthecount/
You've got a long road ahead of yuo, but youve got a lot of brothers and sisters fighting the fight along side you. Reach out and connect with them. You've got this.
ELB exists to protect your income if your ability to work is impacted by service related disability. It will keep you at 90% pre-release salary. If you work, the earned employment income will be offset from your ELB. I don' know the exact formula, but basically thy will top up whatever you do earn from work to your pre-release salary at 90%. You wont' be kicked to the curb. It goes til 65. If you can only work part time, that's fine.
Not sure how the reassessment will go, but VAC makes their own call on that. Get as much documentation as possible from medical pros. I suggest using a Royal Canadian Legion service officer to help you prepare your claims- they are paid employees whose full time work is helping vets with claims. http://www.legion.ca/we-can-help/contact-a-service-officer/
Not sure if you're on Facebook, but there are a couple support groups that may be of use:
Veterans 3B Support GRoup - group for medically released or releasing CAF members/vets. https://www.facebook.com/groups/432709853584762/
Send Up The Count - 9500 member group for mental helath in the CAF and veterans community. We have lots of members who have been through the process with PTSD. https://www.facebook.com/groups/sendupthecount/
You've got a long road ahead of yuo, but youve got a lot of brothers and sisters fighting the fight along side you. Reach out and connect with them. You've got this.
Teager
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
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SISIP will ask numerous times if you want to go to school this is not obligatory and you can tell them no thanks. Due to your medical issues after the 2 years on SISIP they will determine if you stay on SISIP or if not you will move over to VAC ELB and voc rehab. You will have a case manager which will help work with you in what you can and can't do and come up with a plan that best helps and works for you. If your condition improves and you feel you can do some schooling that option is there with the VAC voc rehab.
Mostly you will have the case manager to help guide you through everything and will come to your home for appointments if you choose.
Mostly you will have the case manager to help guide you through everything and will come to your home for appointments if you choose.
Yes as previously stated you are doing the right thing reaching out to others and asking questions and building a strong support network are all positive steps towards recovery.
I am also new to the VAC system myself just granted 10% this spring (2016) chronic PTSD depression anxiety etc. Plus another 10% for hearing loss started the rehab program collecting ELB since winter 2016 so ya I am still pretty fresh and kinda confused myself.
I have learned a lot from other peers on the forum this has been a great source of info for me probably the best actually! I find navigating the VAC website frustrating and I have a relatively new and young case manager that's still in training herself she has the attitude that the money I recieve is coming directly out of her purse? Actually many questions that I have asked her about entitlements and benefits I have learned about from others on the forum she doesn't even know exist this has caused many arguments but I am not the kinda person who backs down easy and I am not afraid to put her in her place. I don't use this as an excuse to be rude and abusive but at the end of the day they are public servants their job is to serve us answer our questions and ensure that we get all the benefits we are entitled . That's not to say all people that work for VAC are incompetent the majority of the people I have had to deal with so far have for the most part been very polite,helpful and compassionate.
I also highly recommend contacting your local Royal Canadian Legion branch and ask to be put in contact with a Provincial Services Officer. You do not have to be a Legion member to enlist there help. My experience in dealing with them has been nothing less than amazing. They did all my initial paper work applications and arranged all the nesasary medical appointments to start my disability processes. They are very helpful caring and understanding they are pros when it comes to navigating the VAC system and can answer most questions that my case manger can't or won't answer.
I am also new to the VAC system myself just granted 10% this spring (2016) chronic PTSD depression anxiety etc. Plus another 10% for hearing loss started the rehab program collecting ELB since winter 2016 so ya I am still pretty fresh and kinda confused myself.
I have learned a lot from other peers on the forum this has been a great source of info for me probably the best actually! I find navigating the VAC website frustrating and I have a relatively new and young case manager that's still in training herself she has the attitude that the money I recieve is coming directly out of her purse? Actually many questions that I have asked her about entitlements and benefits I have learned about from others on the forum she doesn't even know exist this has caused many arguments but I am not the kinda person who backs down easy and I am not afraid to put her in her place. I don't use this as an excuse to be rude and abusive but at the end of the day they are public servants their job is to serve us answer our questions and ensure that we get all the benefits we are entitled . That's not to say all people that work for VAC are incompetent the majority of the people I have had to deal with so far have for the most part been very polite,helpful and compassionate.
I also highly recommend contacting your local Royal Canadian Legion branch and ask to be put in contact with a Provincial Services Officer. You do not have to be a Legion member to enlist there help. My experience in dealing with them has been nothing less than amazing. They did all my initial paper work applications and arranged all the nesasary medical appointments to start my disability processes. They are very helpful caring and understanding they are pros when it comes to navigating the VAC system and can answer most questions that my case manger can't or won't answer.
Staff Weenie
Full Member
- Reaction score
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One of the best things you can do right now, is call your nearest Integrated Personnel Support Centre (IPSC), and ask to meet with a Services Coordinator. If you don't know which IPSC supports you, send me a PM, I'm the Deputy Ops O now for the Joint Personnel Support Unit.
As for the percentage that VAC will ultimately award, it's very hard to bracket, because there are so many variables that each case is unique. They will indeed obtain your health records, and review the comments from your Mental Health team. You will also be submitting forms, part of which give you the opportunity to comment on how it has impacted your daily living. Far too many people downplay the impact - we're soldiers, we suck it up, right???? But don't do that! VAC needs these details to make the best assessment. If you can't go on a bus, note it. Can't go shopping, write it down. Can't get it up? Can't hug your kids? Sweat like mad and change the sheets twice per night? Make sure every little detail on how your life has been impacted goes in there. That helps make a more accurate determination.
Then, reach out. You've already started, and that puts you ahead of too many others. Try looking into Operational Stress Injury Social Support (OSISS). It's a peer-based support group where you meet once every week or two, with people who 'get it'. I go every other week still, and it helps me to realize that I'm not fighting this alone. If you need help finding a group, go to OSISS.ca and contact them.
Ask for a Nurse Case Manager to be assigned (if they haven't already done so). Then ask if a Complexity Assessment is going to be done. If you are heading towards a 3b Release (medical), and you are deemed 'Complex', you can have an Integrated Transition Plan done at the local ITP. This is a multi-disciplinary Board that sits to see how to smooth your transition as much as possible. It has reps from Case Management (can they hand your care off to civilian systems safely?), SISIP (do you have a Voc Rehab plan?), VAC (are they ready for your file?), PSO (have they helped you in defining your post CAF education and career goals?). Your chain of command and even the Family Liaison Officer can be there if needed. They are there for you - let the team help work the issue, and take the stress.
I find my memory sometimes takes a nose-dive, so when you go to meetings, bring a trusted friend, or ask to record it on your smart-phone. That way, you can go home, relax, and re-listen to make sure you've got all the info.
There's going to be a lot of bumps in the road, but you're going to make it through this. There's lots of us here who are living with PTSD as well, don't ever be worried about reaching out for help when you need it.
As for the percentage that VAC will ultimately award, it's very hard to bracket, because there are so many variables that each case is unique. They will indeed obtain your health records, and review the comments from your Mental Health team. You will also be submitting forms, part of which give you the opportunity to comment on how it has impacted your daily living. Far too many people downplay the impact - we're soldiers, we suck it up, right???? But don't do that! VAC needs these details to make the best assessment. If you can't go on a bus, note it. Can't go shopping, write it down. Can't get it up? Can't hug your kids? Sweat like mad and change the sheets twice per night? Make sure every little detail on how your life has been impacted goes in there. That helps make a more accurate determination.
Then, reach out. You've already started, and that puts you ahead of too many others. Try looking into Operational Stress Injury Social Support (OSISS). It's a peer-based support group where you meet once every week or two, with people who 'get it'. I go every other week still, and it helps me to realize that I'm not fighting this alone. If you need help finding a group, go to OSISS.ca and contact them.
Ask for a Nurse Case Manager to be assigned (if they haven't already done so). Then ask if a Complexity Assessment is going to be done. If you are heading towards a 3b Release (medical), and you are deemed 'Complex', you can have an Integrated Transition Plan done at the local ITP. This is a multi-disciplinary Board that sits to see how to smooth your transition as much as possible. It has reps from Case Management (can they hand your care off to civilian systems safely?), SISIP (do you have a Voc Rehab plan?), VAC (are they ready for your file?), PSO (have they helped you in defining your post CAF education and career goals?). Your chain of command and even the Family Liaison Officer can be there if needed. They are there for you - let the team help work the issue, and take the stress.
I find my memory sometimes takes a nose-dive, so when you go to meetings, bring a trusted friend, or ask to record it on your smart-phone. That way, you can go home, relax, and re-listen to make sure you've got all the info.
There's going to be a lot of bumps in the road, but you're going to make it through this. There's lots of us here who are living with PTSD as well, don't ever be worried about reaching out for help when you need it.
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