drug testing

[jonstarks]

How big a deal is this drug testing? I have numerous friends in the navy reserves and every exercise or course they go on all I hear about is them partying and getting high, not smoking weed but experimenting with harder drugs.  I have heard this every summer for years.  Are the reserves just very relaxed because I have never heard of anyone getting tested before and I know a dozen NCM naval reservists that all share the same stories?

In my opinion this is a digrace to the uniform.  As a CF member one should be held to a higher standard.  I personally find it offensive when I have someone comes up to me and tell me all the CF does nothing except get high!

How can so many people have the same stories and the people in charge have no clue what is happening on their courses?

 

[Michael OLeary]

How big a deal is this drug testing? I have numerous friends in the navy reserves and every exercise or course they go on all I hear about is them partying and getting high, not smoking weed but experimenting with harder drugs.  I have heard this every summer for years.  Are the reserves just very relaxed because I have never heard of anyone getting tested before and I know a couple dozen NCM naval reservists that all share the same stories?

In my opinion this is a digrace to the uniform.  As a CF member one should be held to a higher standard.  I personally find it offensive when I have someone comes up to me and tell me all the CF does nothing except get high!

How can so many people have the same stories and the people in charge have no clue what is happening on their courses?

And you, as a service member, and feeling that this is a disgrace, have reported exactly how many of these incidents to the Military Police?

 

[jonstarks]

How do you report your buddies to the MP's when you grew up your whole life with them?

I have shared my viewpoints and disgush with them, but honestly how would I report them to the MP's?
I am an Ocdt in the ROTP what place to do I have reporting people.

(this is meant to be said in a frustrating and disappointing tone, not trying to be a smart a##)

 

[Michael OLeary]

And yet you come here expecting us to take you at your word and, perhaps, to offer advice.  To put it as simply as I can, perhaps it is time to man up or shut up.  If you don't do something about this what are you expecting from us by sharing this information here?

 

[paracowboy]

I have numerous friends in the navy reserves and every exercise or course they go on all I hear about is them partying and getting high, not smoking weed but experimenting with harder drugs. 

then these human wastes of skin shouldn't be your friends.

Are the reserves just very relaxed because I have never heard of anyone getting tested before and I know a couple dozen NCM naval reservists that all share the same stories?

how many of them have you reported to the Military Police?

In my opinion this is a digrace to the uniform.

 mine too

As a CF member one should be held to a higher standard.

 yes, they should. To include those who are made aware of events like this. Which is why I ask how many times you have reported these stories and individuals to the MPs.

I personally find it offensive when I have someone comes up to me and tell me all the CF does nothing except get high!

as do I. And I have made no bones about it. Anyone who works with me is very much aware that I will arrest anyone I catch using drugs.

How can so many people have the same stories and the people in charge have no clue what is happening on their courses?

I dunno. Maybe because nobody reports it?

How do you report your buddies to the MP's when you grew up your whole life with them?

you say, "Excuse me Sergeant, I want to report a crime". They'll help you from that point.

These scumbags should not be considered your friends. If you consider them your friends, you consider them your equals.

My friends are men who hold my respect. I have no respect for dopers.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

I can't believe that an aspiring officer would countenance the possiblity of having command over soldiers, yet be willing to jeopardize those same soldiers by looking the other way at drug use.  This person should go and read the text of the Queen's Commission scroll.  Should he or she still hope to earn one with his or her name on it, best take it to heart and then do the right thing.  Leadership, command and responsibility are not selective priveleges.

 

[McG]

I am an Ocdt in the ROTP what place to do I have reporting people.

Are you asking us if an officer should be excused from doing his part to uphold order & discipline?

 

[jonstarks]

To put it as simply as I can, perhaps it is time to man up or shut up.

point noted.

I guess this is my first test as a future officer.  I failed.  I have repeatedly expressed my opinion to them, but unfortunately on this issue I have to take the walk of shame. I cannot report my friends to the MP's, which leads my to option 2.

 

[Michael OLeary]

point noted.

I guess this is my first test as a future officer.  I failed.  I have repeatedly expressed my opinion to them, but unfortunately on this issue I have to take the walk of shame. I cannot report my friends to the MP's, which leads my to option 2.

May I suggest that what you need to do is spend some time contemplating the responsibilities you have already chosen to accept as a career choice, and the qualities you want in those you choose to have as your friends.  Then you have to find the path that will let you face yourself in the mirror each morning.

 

[Torlyn]

I guess this is my first test as a future officer.  I failed.  I have repeatedly expressed my opinion to them, but unfortunately on this issue I have to take the walk of shame. I cannot report my friends to the MP's, which leads my to option 2.

Shutting up is your idea of a viable option?  If you are unwilling to execute the responsibilities that go with that stripe you have on your shoulder, turn it in before you do any further damage.  You are trying to become an officer.  For god's sake, ACT like it!  You are doing almost as much damage by allowing it to continue unreported, tacitly condoning this behaviour.  You come on a PUBLIC board and discuss these things.  How much respect do you think you are earning for all of us junior officers from the folks who frequent this site?

We do not have the luxury of only enforcing SOME aspects of the NDA.  That baby is our bible, and we must adhere to ALL of it.  If you won't follow it, why the hell should anyone who works for you?  You are not taking drugs, certainly.  But you are aware of other officer candidates who are, and yet you do nothing.  I will grant you that it is NOT an easy thing to do, but part of being an officer is taking the responsibility and MAKING those decisions.  Option 2 for you is not shutting up.  Option 2 for you is talking to your CO, and telling him you are unwilling to execute your responsibilities as an officer, and turning in your kit.  If you can't make that decision, if you are unwilling to lose your "friends" over this, perhaps the military is not the best place for you.  IMO, of course.

T

 

[Michael OLeary]

Ease up Torlyn, he knows what the 'right' answer is, he's also dealing with the knowledge that it is the difficult choice personally.  Yes, it's one of many he will have to make in his career, but that doesn't make it easier.  It is very easy for us to debate the issue and tell him what he should do, but we're not dealing with the decision, nor are we facing its various outcomes at a personal level.

jonstarks, tough decisions are never easy, perhaps they're not meant to be.  When our core principles are challenged it makes us examine ourselves as much as it does the world around us.  Only you can make this choice between your old friends' poor choices and your own moral position.  Perhaps it may help if you ask yourself "what are the possible outcomes if their behaviour continues, would you feel responsible for any resultant deaths or injury?"  They obviously don't care, and even by expressing your concerns here, you obviously do.

 

[pete peeters]

should be mandatory...do you want your a** saved by some guy who just smoked a phatty?

 

[aesop081]

jonstarks, tough decisions are never easy,

I seem to recal words spoken on my JLC/JNCO...something about leadership and "doing the right thing even if it is unpopular"

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

I thought that if one knows, having seen or has more than very good reason to believe, that someone in the CF is using a controlled substance one has a duty to report it.  If you are in the CF and you do not report another CF member who is doing drugs you are guilty of an offence. (Unless if my understanding of the regulations is wrong - very likely, this point was only explained to me three times in painfull detail) You might have to make a formal statement saying that you believe the information you are giving is true and unless there are good reasons that person identified will have a drug test and then things proceed from there.

I think a while ago in the dust bowl our soldiers came across a field of pot... and destroyed it. (Big fire)  I think anyone in that area has a free ride for pot in their system for a year or so.  But once again,  they have tests that can tell with some certainty when was the last time you took drugs.

 

[Kat Stevens]

should be mandatory...do you want your a** saved by some guy who just smoked a phatty?

If the option is NOT having my a** saved by some guy who just smoked a phatty, I'll take it....

 

[Deleted member 9665]

I also think that derug testing should be mandatory.

and done on random occasion.

And rules should be even harder toward people who used drugs. It is unacceptable.

 

[GO!!!]

Before we hammer Mr. Starks too hard here, I think it is worthwhile to point out that COs have had broad powers to test individuals for drugs for years. They also had the option of not testing at all, which many of them took.

I believe that the COs of many units, like starks, chose a "see no evil" approach, unless they were presented with evidence by an outside authority (soldier busted for posession by civvie cops/MPs) that made a test mandatory.

It's pretty hard to hammer an OCdt for not turning his friends in when his CoC is either not aware of (but should be) or not willing to ferret out the offenders with widely available and common testing.

Why are'nt sailors blanket tested before they go to sea, the same way the army is before we go to Afghanistan?

 

[jonstarks]

The reason why I started this topic was to gather some insight in why I hear so much about the zero tolerance in the CF, and on the other side I hear so much about drug use.
I guess my question was partially answered.  Yes it is because of people like myself who do not report this type of behaviour.
I think there is a big difference between a couple guys you train with, or you find out some of your subordinates are engaging in this type of behaviour, then having a couple of your ncm buddies that you run into twice a year talk about what they were doing while training this year.
Am I doing whats right? No.  Although what am I suppose to do. I have not idea who their CO's were, who their staff was, I wasn't training with them, I never saw them get high.  So yes I could find out which base they were stationed at call their CO's and report that some of the ncm's training at their base were using drugs with no evidence to support it. If you could make that call and report them, then I guess you make a better officer then myself.
Should I give up my stripe for not reporting? In my opinion no, not for something like this.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

In my opinion...from what i know which is very little...

I think that they are not severe enough.  they should use the power they have to really use the zero tolerance rules.

 

[steve29]

My buddy here at Gagetown test came back inconclusive. He went up in front of the man told he was being placed on C&P and being removed from tour. He said  I don't do drugs and I want a lawyer. Called military lawyer, went to MIR to get another drug test done. When the medic seen him he said he wanted to see an MO, the medic replied you need an appointment to see an MO. He said if you don't get an MO in here I'M going in the waiting room and going to start swinging. 2 minutes later The MO was in there with him.

The MO wanted to know who was explaining these tests to them. Asked him if he took Tylenol or Ibuprofen (spelling) that would make the test come back inconclusive. The MO said he would give him a blood test in which it came back neg. Brought it back and they told him because it was not done at the same facility they were not accepting it.

Anyway the lawyer has gotten it cleared up and he has been reinstated by Gen Leslie.

The CSM told his brother while getting on the bus going to Wainright "Can you get a hold of your brother, and tell him to clear back in the COY, I don't have time. He has been re-en stated."