Does the CF use Cooling Vests?

[GAP]

Shawinigan Cooling Vests Inc.?

( En francais, of course...  )

There might be manufacturing space alongside the hotel, on the opposite side of the golf course, or attached to the canoe museum...

Just ask for Jean.....he'll head you in the right direction, but make sure you take care of him too!!

 

[tank recce]

The working fluid might be water, but the heat/cooling transfer is terrible for water vs (eg methanol alcohol/antifreeze. That's why car engines don't work well on water only coolant....it's inefficient...

Straight water heat transfer isn't actually that bad; the biggest problem with car engine heat transfer is the surface tension of the water keeping it out of the surface irregularities that are part of any commercially-produced metal surface, effectively reducing your heat transfer area by an astonishing amount. Street engines use toxic chemicals to 1) raise the boiling point, 2) lower the freezing point, 3) reduce / minimise corrosion, and 4) reduce the surface tension and actually get the water in full contact with the heat transfer surfaces of both galleries and rads. Point 1 can be ignored if either your heating rate isn't that high, or you can run your system at a higher pressure. Point 2 can be ignored if you don't subject the device to sub-zero weather while switched OFF. The third can be ignored if your process doesn't involve substances corroded by water. The fourth... well life isn't perfect. If he's using vinyl tubing, it's pretty smooth.

Race engines run distilled water (to avoid deposits), usually with a capful or two of WatterWetter (basically a soap, to reduce the surface tension and actually get the water in full contact with the heat transfer surfaces of both galleries and rads). Antifreeze is incredibly hard to clean up after a crash, and insanely slippery. One moron with a rad full of coolant can write off a race track for days, even weeks.

Since the young fellow seems to be talking about a cooling vest for use in high temp situations, I don't see an issue with using straight water. Hell, make it medical-class saline - if you get shot, the vest irrigates the wound! (sick joke, sorry)

 

[adaminc]

I was going to use water because it's cheap, non toxic, easily replaced, and works pretty well as a working fluid. I mean, if you can use it to cool a PC, I think it can cool a body.

 

[1feral1]

It will be both pluggable into a power system and battery powered, the pump I have lined up only uses 18W. My main worry about my system is how long it should last, that is to say, the amount and weight of the batteries which could be the heaviest part.

Greetings!

Does one wear a batt pack? Firslty what about batt acid being introduced to flesh the same way the chemicals would WRT shrap/frag/blast etc.

Plugged in?

Is this a crew only thing, or also for pax in APC/ Dismounts in LAV etc.

Quite frankly more cables and wires does not make an AFV crew happy. Its hazardous. Its bad enough with the leads for the CVC dangling. Imagine CVC, complete antiflash kit, goggles, leads, cooling vest, body armour/ attached with minimal pouches, FADs , shoulder holster, etc.

Now if batts are not going to be used, now a device/cooling system has to be mounted in the (already packed with enough stuff, plus combat loading of eqpt and supplies, pers kit etc) AFV.  24V, radios etc, possible interference perhaps, power drain on an already taxed system - AIRCON, lighting, fans, radios, RWS, ECM, etc.

All this then getting approval from the maintenence control agency, who would have to test this, and see if it falls into the rigid tech standards and catagories etc.

I don't think your plan will get passed your 'sample'.

Your intentions are well recieved though.

My two pence.


Warm regards,

OWDU

 

[adaminc]

It will be based on Lithium Ion Polymer batteries, so there is no battery acid, plus they are light weight and have an excellent energy density to weight ratio.

It is a portable system, so it goes with the soldiers, the power system will have a retractable cable that will plug into whatever power source is available (not sure what kind of connector is used)

However, I have been thinking of scrapping the idea, a friend of mine came over today and we were working out all the basic weight issues, it seems for it to be a functional system that it would probably weigh too much to be practical, for the system to run for 12 hours, it would weigh almost 15lbs (not the vest itself, but the battery pack + electronics + resevoir), which seems like it would be too much considering all the other stuff a soldier has to carry.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

Does one wear a batt pack? Firslty what about batt acid being introduced to flesh the same way the chemicals would WRT shrap/frag/blast etc.

There are already tons of batteries being carried by individual soldiers, in some cases very close to the skin. 

However, I have been thinking of scrapping the idea, a friend of mine came over today and we were working out all the basic weight issues, it seems for it to be a functional system that it would probably weigh too much to be practical, for the system to run for 12 hours, it would weigh almost 15lbs (not the vest itself, but the battery pack + electronics + resevoir), which seems like it would be too much considering all the other stuff a soldier has to carry.

You're right.  Way too heavy.  But I can't think offhand of any gizmo that isn't smaller/lighter/better today than it was when it was first introduced.  Make one, then try to make it lighter.  Then make an even lighter one. 

 

[GAP]

There are already tons of batteries being carried by individual soldiers, in some cases very close to the skin. 

You're right.  Way too heavy.  But I can't think offhand of any gizmo that isn't smaller/lighter/better today than it was when it was first introduced.  Make one, then try to make it lighter.  Then make an even lighter one. 

Willy is right....few seldom get it on the first try....that's why they are called prototypes... ;D

 

[Greymatters]

Willy is right....few seldom get it on the first try....that's why they are called prototypes... ;D 

Its often easier to see how to improve something after youve got it off the blueprints and into three dimensions.  I wouldnt give up just yet!

 

[Bob Terwilliger]

Here is an article on different types of cooling vests.

http://ergonomics.uq.edu.au/eaol/chauhan.pdf

I would lean towards the dry ice model myself. No batteries, much colder. If one were to come up with a design along the lines of a light weight plastic vest(in the style of the high visibility vest) made of the same materiel refreezable ice packs are made of, that have the ability to be filled with dry ice pellets. The pellets could be manufactured in theatre. When the dry ice sublimates, just exchange the vest for a recharged one.

 

[karl28]

adaminc


          I was reading this with a bit of interest . I wouldn't give up on your design just yet keep testing remember if it does turn out not to be practical for soldiers to wear than maybe be good enough for the civilian market .    Example I work in a Long Term Carefacility as a PSW even though our facility has ac in the hallways the residents rooms and tub rooms  are not (Mostly for the fact that most residents can't handle being cold )  .  When we are working looking after the residents getting them dressed or helping them with baths  or just doing transfers all day  it gets really warm  something like this might work down the road .      It could also be great for construction workers or any else that works out side so just keep in mind that there is a civilian market out there to OK  .


Cheers Karl

 

[Mike Baker]

remember if it does turn out not to be practical for soldiers to wear than maybe be good enough for the civilian market .

Or for LEOs during the summer, fire fighters, etc.


Good luck on the product! I am sure that once you have a final product idea, then you will have lots of people and companies who'll want in on getting some.

Cheers
Deadpan

 

[George Wallace]

It will be based on Lithium Ion Polymer batteries, so there is no battery acid,.......

Lithium you say.  No battery acid........OK.  How about toxic fumes when the cases are broken? 

 

[adaminc]

It won't give off toxic fumes if punctured, it will most likely erupt into flames . Lithium is highly reactive with water, so the moisture in the air would react with it. However, the battery case would be as puncture proof as possible.

 

[1feral1]

It won't give off toxic fumes if punctured, it will most likely erupt into flames . Lithium is highly reactive with water, so the moisture in the air would react with it. However, the battery case would be as puncture proof as possible.

I don't think your idea is going to fly, sorry.

I would rather be hot and uncomfortable, its bad enough manouvering around in the ECBAin a AFV, with let alone another layer of crap to worry about, cables, wiresd what have you, and with a batt pack etc. Try squeezing out a LAV with more crap on, in an emergency exit, when you have a matter of seconds tro get out before you fry (literally).


Happy days,

OWDU

 

[S.Stewart]

It won't give off toxic fumes if punctured, it will most likely erupt into flames . Lithium is highly reactive with water, so the moisture in the air would react with it. However, the battery case would be as puncture proof as possible.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would assume not many things in this world are puncture proof when it comes to things like IED's, RPG's etc, you know the usual "fun stuff" with tragedic consquences that float around the sandbox. Come on, use your head.

 

[trencher]

Good idea never been over seas yet but alot of my friends are armoured to sigs to infintry. Would be a great invention. Keep working on it dont give up.

Yeah the whole thing about the batteries. Whats on the front of ur TV middle of your chest that has batteries in it. Round hits that your getting acid in your face.

 

[George Wallace]

>

Please.

Spell Check makes it so much easier to read your post.  What is "ur"?

 

[1feral1]

infintry.

Yes, we got to love those 'infintry' guys  ;D

 

[trencher]

Here we go again with the spellingbee's.

Next time I make a post I will be sure to make it in memo format just for you. And I will have someone spell check it just for you.

 

[Franko]

Here we go again with the spellingbee's.

Next time I make a post I will be sure to make it in memo format just for you. And I will have someone spell check it just for you.

Back on topic troops.

Trencher....they put on smilies with their posts, they're ribbing you.   

Mind you MSN speak isn't tolerated here.

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