Does being part of military make you 'right wing'?

[Bruce Monkhouse]

lol How I format my posts has nothing to do with it but thanks for the tip,

Here's another tip,[ no charge]

It will have a lot to do with you whether you either wish to make this a career, or just stick around for a few years.

 

[Smity199]

I'm confused.. how so?
the fact that I didn't break up my thoughts into seperate paragraphs will dictate whether I will have a career in the army or just a 3 year stint? I could see your point if I had spelling/grammar errors or I just seemed uneducated in general in my posts, how that might raise some flags.. oh well, you guys probably do know best

 

[aesop081]

especially not in the combat arms..

What does "combat arms " have to do with this ?

I am not in the combat arms, yet if i do my job right, dozens ( sometimes  hundreds) of people die a pretty terrible death.

Everyone in the CF has a significant role to play in the delivery of violence to the ennemy.

 

[chris_log]

I'm confused.. how so?
the fact that I didn't break up my thoughts into seperate paragraphs will dictate whether I will have a career in the army or just a 3 year stint? I could see your point if I had spelling/grammar errors or I just seemed uneducated in general in my posts, how that might raise some flags.. oh well, you guys probably do know best

I think people took issue mostly with the fact that you launched into what was a series of generally thoughtfull posts with an illogical rant. I get it, you're a true blue conservative (judging by your posts and Bush quotes) and the thought of a dirty leftist joining the ranks of the CF annoys you. 

However, I think this thread came to the conclusion that most of us are willing to serve with anyone who has the will to serve and is halfways competant. Political views don't play into it, and neither does one's activist history (as long as it was legal). I used to be a deeply ideological conservative who used all the rhetoric in the world, like yourself. As I go along, however, I learn that politics isn't as clear cut as you'd like it to be. I even participated in a protest (albeit on the 'good' side ), does that preclude me from serving...according to you?

especially not in the combat arms..

And that has what to do with it?

 

[ltmaverick25]

I'm confused.. how so?
the fact that I didn't break up my thoughts into seperate paragraphs will dictate whether I will have a career in the army or just a 3 year stint? I could see your point if I had spelling/grammar errors or I just seemed uneducated in general in my posts, how that might raise some flags.. oh well, you guys probably do know best

This thread really isn’t about grammar and paragraph structure.  It’s about attitude.  Your poor attitude has inspired others to take shots at you and here we are.  If you really want to know why good writing skills are required in the CF then it should be taken to another thread (and they are important).

The moral of the story here is disagree, without attacking.  I have often been critical of the negative tone that veteran posters sometimes take towards new people; however, in this instance it’s the reverse. 

If all goes well, you will soon be one of us, and you are going to have to be able to work in a team environment and support your peers even when you disagree with them.  We're all on the same team.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

How about you check your grammar and spelling?

The pen, err keyboard is mightyer then the sword!

 

[ltmaverick25]

How about you check your grammar and spelling?

And here I thought I had invented a word of my own.  Oh well.

 

[aesop081]

And here I thought I had invented a word of my own.  Oh well.

You invented a few things of your own alright......... :

 

[ltmaverick25]

You invented a few things of your own alright......... :

Care to elaborate?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

When comparing one thing with another you may find that one is more appealing “than” another. “Than” is the word you want when doing comparisons. But if you are talking about time, choose “then".

 

[Another Mom]

I would be interested in hearing from the more experienced here, how a COIN model of fighting intersects with some of the opinions here  that their job is to kill, a la  WW II style.  Not  mutually exclusive , I would gather, but it must be a delicate dance reconciling the two.  Is  a need for COIN thinkers reflected in what kind of people  are recruited? Is war itself becoming more "left wing"? 

 

[mellian]

Wow. Meanwhile I can get that sort of response by certain individuals among other groups about myself joining the CF.

As for protests being effective or not, I would say not completely by itself. Combine it with education of the issues to those that ask on the street, calling and emailing and writing letters to MPs and PM, inviting all sort of media to record the demonstration (even thought some have the habit of focusing on those with the silliest of signs or anything they deem hypocritical or belittling such as throwing rocks or vandalizing), and so on.

Protests and Demonstrations have been used for all sort of issues, and by those of various parts of a political spectrum. I am from Ottawa, and I have seen many protests and marches of all sorts, many I disproved. Anti-War, Pro-War (they had some big ones themselves in 2003), Anti-Bush, Pro-Bush, Pro-Choice, Pro-Life, Pro Gay Marriage, Anti Gay Marriage, Pro-Palestine, Pro-Israel, Pro Natives, Anti-Capitalists, Unions, Strikes, and the lists go on. Other cities in Canada had their own fair share of protests and demonstrations, with some becoming annual thing for people to hang out and even celebrate like Pride Parades to remind people they too exist.

That are just some more recent ones. If one looks at history, many social changes has been precipitated by protests, which in the end help improve the quality of life for ALL people. 

These days, with the populace having massive amount of accessible information, many people tend to gradually become accustom to them, and in turn apathetic, yet protests still serves a purpose even it does not seem like it changes anything. It provides the people an opportunity to vent, especially if they feel like they cannot do anything else, which in a way benefits society and keeps it stable and safe. Otherwise, history has shown what can happen when those in power try to suppress demonstrations and ignore those who initiating them. It gradually becomes from peaceful protests to riots, martyr type acts like standing in front of a moving tank or lighting themselves on fire, and even hijacking and terrorism to get societal attention to certain issues.

Probably the key thing that got me involved into protesting is not so much the issues it is focusing on, but police brutality and violent protesters. First protest I ever attended was the G20 in 2001. I did so to observe, as the UofO student newspaper I was doing high school co-op with was covering it, and I was curious as what was the big deal, why so many is attending it, why the authorities were worried it would become another Seattle or Quebec City, and so on. Those few days were pretty formative in term of life experience, got to see all sorts of things, the good and bad of both protesters and police, spoke to all sort of people including few officers who were friendly enough to talk to. I almost got arrested few times as the police were actively partitioning and pushing the demonstrators or grabbing all those wearing black, which only caused people to stampede, and pissing off people who would otherwise would stay on the sidelines to watch. That and smelling my share of tear gas, oi, but fortunately had roaming medic who were supplying filter masks with vinegar to avoid breathing the stuff.

So since then, started getting involved in some of the organizing committees, and from there made sure I was there to help coordinate and organize, making sure people are safe, and to discourage somehow silly nonsense like vandalism or throwing stuff at the police. By the first Bush visit, police got accustom to peacefully handling large protests with lot less officers, a long with the organizers in terms of coordinating such a large amount of people, with compromises with groups to allow their own time period of being pushy, allowing the police to focus on a particular group and not all demonstrators.  During that period, I have worked with police officers on other issues with one of the police liaison committees, getting to know various officers even some I met during protests.

Even had the Chief of Police at the time (if I still had his new contact info, probably would have asked him as a security reference) ask me at an unrelated event for my perspective the protests, which to me I believe made some kind of difference. I think at one point it was suggested I could apply to join the force, and possibly help enact some of my suggestions, and trust, I was really tempted then I guess for similar reasons why I am applying for the CF.   

So yes, eventually started focusing on other aspects of life and activism, and gradually moved away from protest and demonstration organizing, both because of lack of issues I would like to focus on or agree with, and because I guess gotten my fill, or felt like there was no further difference I can make. In Montreal, I simply do not have enough time for it, with University and Roller Derby and all, nor have the inclination for it at this point of my life.

Okay...I think I went on longer than planned.

 

[George Wallace]

I would be interested in hearing from the more experienced here, how a COIN model of fighting intersects with some of the opinions here  that their job is to kill, a la  WW II style.  Not  mutually exclusive , I would gather, but it must be a delicate dance reconciling the two.  Is  a need for COIN thinkers reflected in what kind of people  are recruited? Is war itself becoming more "left wing"?

COIN has nothing to do with whom is being recruited.  The CF will teach the Recruits the "BASIC Building Blocks" necessary to make them effective members of the CF.  If they are being deployed to an area/Region where COIN operations are taking place, then they will be given the training they need to operate there.  The "Basics" don't change.  COIN is just another form of 'battle' for which we will adapt our basic drills and procedures to overcome.

War is not "Left" or "Right", it is "Organized CHAOS".  >

 

[mellian]

I would be interested in hearing from the more experienced here, how a COIN model of fighting intersects with some of the opinions here  that their job is to kill, a la  WW II style.  Not  mutually exclusive , I would gather, but it must be a delicate dance reconciling the two.  Is  a need for COIN thinkers reflected in what kind of people  are recruited? Is war itself becoming more "left wing"?

As in applying COIN theory to the Canadian Forces as its own gravity well, and how it is attracting people to applying? If so, I can see how that would work, and how it may attract diverse amount of recruits to the CF.

I can even see how it can be applied to my life, as a single node floating through space of social networks that comprises our society.

 

[George Wallace]

As in applying COIN theory to the Canadian Forces as its own gravity well, and how it is attracting people to applying? If so, I can see how that would work, and how it may attract diverse amount of recruits to the CF.

I can even see how it can be applied to my life, as a single node floating through space of social networks that comprises our society.

:

COIN has absolutely NOTHING, again, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with recruiting people into the CF.  Once again; the CF does not train its Recruits for COIN.  They will be taught all the basics soldier skills that have been taught as the basics for centuries.  Once they have become trained members of the CF, and have to oportunity to train to deploy on COIN operations, then they will be trained for such operations.  We are not Recruiting for COIN.

Just forget all about COIN and get back on topic.

 

[Another Mom]

Mellian: In my admittedly little research, it seems the XXXX (that, which must not be named)  warrior of the future would also benefit from education/ experience  in psychology, sociology, anthropology, languages,  economics, etc.  In the  US Army/Marine XXXX (that, which must not be named)  Center pamphlet, there is a quote "In small wars, tolerance, sympathy and kindness should be the keynote to our relationship with the mass of the population".  Sounds if not left wing, then the left arm of the right wing. 

 

[chris_log]

Mellian: In my admittedly little research, it seems the XXXX (that, which must not be named)  warrior of the future would also benefit from education/ experience  in psychology, sociology, anthropology, languages,  economics, etc.  In the  US Army/Marine XXXX (that, which must not be named)  Center pamphlet, there is a quote "In small wars, tolerance, sympathy and kindness should be the keynote to our relationship with the mass of the population".  Sounds if not left wing, then the left arm of the right wing.

As was stated earlier, a soldier's political views have no bearing on their ability to be a good soldier.

 

[aesop081]

(that, which must not be named) 

You think you are being cute but........

 

[Roy Harding]

Mellian: In my admittedly little research, it seems the XXXX (that, which must not be named)  warrior of the future would also benefit from education/ experience  in psychology, sociology, anthropology, languages,  economics, etc.  In the  US Army/Marine XXXX (that, which must not be named)  Center pamphlet, there is a quote "In small wars, tolerance, sympathy and kindness should be the keynote to our relationship with the mass of the population".  Sounds if not left wing, then the left arm of the right wing.

Another Mom:

It would seem to me (based on a lot of experience with both UN and NATO ops) that most successful armies promote those very same qualities you mention.

For what it's worth, one of my (left wing) sons is pursuing a PhD in Psychology - and it bugs the hell out of him that the insights he is gaining in that academic pursuit are the SAME insights I gained whilst serving as a soldier in various war zones around the globe.

Those insights are neither right wing, left wing, OR "left arm of the right wing" (good phrase, by the way - may I borrow it from time to time?) - they are realpolitic in nature.

Roy

 

[mellian]

COIN has absolutely NOTHING, again, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with recruiting people into the CF.  Once again; the CF does not train its Recruits for COIN.  They will be taught all the basics soldier skills that have been taught as the basics for centuries.  Once they have become trained members of the CF, and have to oportunity to train to deploy on COIN operations, then they will be trained for such operations.  We are not Recruiting for COIN.

Just forget all about COIN and get back on topic.

I was referring to the theory/model of how communities and organizations are formed and how they attract people to it, not the operations themselves or recruitment into it.  :