Does anyone have information on recent European JSS style ship?

[jollyjacktar]

I have tried several sources without success to find information on a recently launched European (have heard Dutch or German) version of the JSS being mulled over by us.  It was apparently here in Halifax last fall on a dog and pony show similar to what the Halifax did when she first came out for her debut.  I did not hear about it until long after she had come and gone, and of course no-one seems to have any info on where she came from or what her name was.  All I could gather was it similar to what we have in mind.

Any one out there have a better idea of who and what she was???

 

[Navy_Blue]

The Danish have the HDMS ABSALON and her sister ship ESBERN SNARE.  They have RO-RO and space for helos but lack the RAS gear we are looking for.  The Danish call them support ships but they look pretty mean.  The Dutch have the Rotterdam but again no RAS capability. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has the Swiss Army Knife of a warship we are suggesting??  At least not in the water.  In an other JSS related thread someone suggested the Kippers were looking into something like the JSS.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Honestly I can't correct or frankly agree with you one way or another as I am in the dark.  My Div O, the Liquid Cargo Officer, made mention that we had a visitor berthed I believe around the jetty of shame in Nov 05.  We were all wrapped around the axle getting ready for SRI and WUps, plus that is out of my line of sight from H jetty so I missed her.  He said it was along the lines of what are planning more or less and she was on a "Gee aren't we pretty, please buy one" tour here and there.

I have been beating my head against, Haze Gray and Janes etc without success on finding anything.  Haze Gray is so out of date I cannot get current data from it.  They still list LPD 17, San Antonio as "building 2005".  I was on her for a tour in May. 

Thanks for the lead on the Danes.  I will look at that too.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

This what you are talking about JJT?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40754.0.html

 

[Cloud Cover]

Cut and paste from another  thread: 

I'll breathe some new life into this. It seems the RN Fleet Auxillary are also considering versions of the JSS concept as well. The ship will replace bulk cargo, re-fueling etc. They are calling it MARS. [Military Afloat Reach and Sustainability] Note however that MARS is not "a uniform class of ships" but is actually several different ships of varying configuration.

More Information is here: http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/MilitaryAfloatReachSustainabilitymars.htm

and here: http://navy-matters.beedall.com/mars.htm

Requirement

The ‘force projection’ role of the Royal Navy requires three key tasks to be fulfilled by MARS:

Fighting ships to be supplied with bulk consumables (BC) – fuel, food, ammunition, stores, water, and air stores to embarked forces.
Joint sea-based logistics (JSBL) support and sustainment to be provided to land forces from the sea to locations potentially well inland from the beachhead and then sustain their operations. 
Forward Aviation Support (FAS) – the provision of support to maritime rotary wing operations. The ships would be able to act as a forward maintenance facility for helicopters.
The forward aviation requirement was re-confirmed in late 2004 after the consideration of other options.

Other MARS roles include supporting:

A CVF centred carrier task group;
An amphibious task group;
Dispersed ships;
A medium sized brigade ashore;
Special forces; and
Joint forces aviation.
It's expected that the MARS ships will need to be able to operate in areas under threat, and some or all will be armed and therefore classed as ‘grey’ or ‘warlike’.  Individual MARS ships may operate alone in, for example they could be the assigned unit to Atlantic Patrol Task (North) in the Caribbean, undertaking drug interdiction roles and disaster relief. 

MARS will not consist of one uniform of class of ship, but a family of ships perhaps displacing as much as 40,000 tonnes deadweight.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I will hazard a guess that my mystery visitor was HDMS ABSALON as in outward  appearance she does look similar in superstructure to the proposed JSS.  But that being said, she is too small for our projected needs, and as Navy Blue pointed out she cannot RAS anyone, which is totally useless for us. 

In some ways trying to shoehorn a Swiss army knife capability into a single platform with the added challenge of a reduced crew enabling automation to rule the day will be IMHO bloody hard to pull off with cheers and salutes all around. But then it does seem from my limited vantage point over the years to have been a usual state of doing more with less, as the masters who control our future keep cutting and cutting our operating budgets.  ie 300 Centurions to 120 Leo's to 60 MGS or what ever.

Anyhoo, thanks guys for the input I feel less puzzled on who she probably was now.

 

[ringo]

The Dutch are planning a Joint Logistic Support Ship, JLSS, to replace "Zuiderkruis"
to view drawing use Google enter Drijvendcafe.jpg
then click on Dutchfleet scroll down to view drawing

 

[Navy_Blue]

Seems like allot of people are jumping on the JSS band wagon.

I wonder if they are being smart and putting the JLSS on an Enforcer hull??  They seem to be doing allot with that design.

 

[-dikweed-]

Schelde is involved on one of the competing teams if I'm not mistaken....

 

[CanadaPhil]

I am not sure if this may help, but here is some background on various LSS, comparing US San Antonio with the Rotterdam/Galacia class and others.

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/mp-jss-bhs-navy.htm

 

[Navy_Blue]

See you have to agree on some points of that sfu article.  Purpose built Oilers and transports make sense.  All round a fleet like that is more flexable.  How do you move your equipment if you tie up the JSS in a task group fueling or acting as a Command ship??  However I think we're past changing our minds on the JSS so I'm just hoping they get the best bunch of people they can to build them.  I am looking forward to seeing these things in the water too.  From where I sit (in the MCR) these things will be like going from the steamers to the CPF's.  I'm considering how far I'll go to beg borrow or steal my way into commissioning one.

 

[jollyjacktar]

The SFU article was interesting.  I do honestly believe that we will not see our getting onto the bandwagon with the BHS in the near future.  As I have mentioned in other threads, they are still full of bugs and are basically a money pit for the USN at present.  I was informed by a crewmember of the USS SHREVEPORT the present price tag on USS SAN ANTONIO is $17B USD and climbing.  The present ship has eaten so much more extra money in the attempt to get her on line they have had to forgo installing the designed VLS at this time.  The opposition whichever flavor they would be in Parliament would have a field day if the government of the day attempted to purchase two of these girls.  Not to mention the other services who would be cut out of budgets, shades of the Arrow controversy.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

From our experience in the Coast Guard, we found that multi-tasking often means not being able to do anything well, not to mention that many of the task conflicted with each other, such as: having to stay in a SAR patrol area, while planning to do scientific work in another area.

It would seem a dedicated tanker would require a fairly small crew (by navy standards) and as mentioned would be free to deploy with the fleet and not stuck support a possible ground mission or carry a reduced fuel supply as cargo space is taken up with areas for vehicles, command posts etc,etc. The dedicated tanker can be smaller than the JSS and still likely carry more fuel.

Likely a commercial design could be easily modified to permit RAS fueling and carry some limited self defense protection.

 

[jollyjacktar]

There are indeed some rumors and rumblings going on here with regards to the BHS issue, but not the particular class of BHS (San Antonio) I posted of earlier.  It has to do with three mothballed "new" Amphibs the USN are supposed to possess surplus to their present needs.  There is talk of Shearwater and postings of sailors to that location.

I have asked a friend down south about the matter, but he has not heard any concrete particulars.  There was some interest expressed by a couple of foreign countries on the Austin class ships which are being taken out of service.  They wanted to convert these vessels into cargo ships, that was until they closely inspected the power plants and what would be needed to keep them running.  Kinda like my old jalopy here, next to impossible most days and very very costly every day.