Do I take the pilot offer??

[AverageJoe]

There is also a really really long waiting period for pilots. You will go to st.jean for your IAP BOTP and then go to Second language training for up to 8 months unless you already speak fluent french. After second language training you will probably end up doing on the job training( which is pretty much doing nothing other then occasionally catching a ride on a herc ) for years before even beginning your real job training. Also the different phases of training has long break between because they are so backed up. I had a bunch of friends back at my basic which was about 11 months ago and they all tell me that all of them won't actually get to fly anything for years to come. If excitement is your primary interest in being a pilot I suggest you look into the actual timeframe of you training at the recruiters and any other pilots in the training system before you sign on the dotted line. Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

 

[George Wallace]

I'll have you note the gryphon is another way of spelling griffon according to the The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

grif·fin also grif·fon or gryph·on
n.   A fabulous beast with the head and wings of an eagle and the body of a lion.

Also the Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

gryphon
Grif"fin\, Griffon \Grif"fon\, n. [OE. griffin, griffon, griffoun, F. griffon, fr. L. gryphus, equiv to gryps, Gr. ?; -- so called because of the hooked beak, and akin to grypo`s curved, hook-nosed.]

1. (Myth.) A fabulous monster, half lion and half eagle. It is often represented in Grecian and Roman works of art.

2. (Her.) A representation of this creature as an heraldic charge.

3. (Zo["o]l.) A species of large vulture (Gyps fulvus) found in the mountainous parts of Southern Europe, North Africa, and Asia Minor; -- called also gripe, and grype. It is supposed to be the "eagle" of the Bible. The bearded griffin is the lammergeir. [Written also gryphon.]

4. An English early apple.

So?  You have covered Birds, monsters and apples.  You still haven't identified the aircraft type.

'And if you don't think it is important, then you don't know anything about AFV identification and how serious a business that is.

 

[Klinkaroo]

Well see the word gryphon or griffon is actually not an "aircraft type". If you look up griffon in the dictionary you will not get a helicopter of the Canadian forces. The helicopter is named after the mythical animal so if gryphon is the same animal as the griffon well then it is also the same "aircraft type".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Good grief.

 

[George Wallace]

The helicopter is named after the animal so if gryphon is the same animal as the griffon well then it is also the same "aircraft type".

As we have derailed this topic a bit, but it is still relevant, especially to a person who may be wanting to become a pilot in the CF.......Klinkaroo you are WRONG.  It is a very important matter as detailed in my previous post on AFV Recognition.  This simple "indiscretion" in lax spelling of an aircraft type, could cost someone's life in the future.  Get it right or get called on it.  What you write is understood by most, literally as you print/type it.  If you get it wrong in print, someone may have to pay for it with their life.

The helicopter that the CF flies is not a Gryphon.  It is a CH-146 Griffon.  The Gryphon, for all we know, may be some multi-role fighter in Outer Slobovia.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is also a really really long waiting period for pilots. You will go to st.jean for your IAP BOTP and then go to Second language training for up to 8 months unless you already speak fluent french. After second language training you will probably end up doing on the job training( which is pretty much doing nothing other then occasionally catching a ride on a herc ) for years before even beginning your real job training. Also the different phases of training has long break between because they are so backed up. I had a bunch of friends back at my basic which was about 11 months ago and they all tell me that all of them won't actually get to fly anything for years to come. If excitement is your primary interest in being a pilot I suggest you look into the actual timeframe of you training at the recruiters and any other pilots in the training system before you sign on the dotted line. Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

I thought they changed the requirements for SLT post-BMOQ ??

 

[PMedMoe]

Well see the word gryphon or griffon is actually not an "aircraft type". If you look up griffon in the dictionary you will not get a helicopter of the Canadian forces. The helicopter is named after the mythical animal so if gryphon is the same animal as the griffon well then it is also the same "aircraft type".

Reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG, where some visiting officer kept pronouncing Data's name with a short A as opposed to the long A (dat-uh vice dey-tuh).  At one point, Data corrected her and she said "Data, data, what's the difference?"

Data replied, "One is not my name."

 

[MJP]

As we have derailed this topic a bit, but it is still relevant, especially to a person who may be wanting to become a pilot in the CF.......Klinkaroo you are WRONG.  It is a very important matter as detailed in my previous post on AFV Recognition.  This simple "indiscretion" in lax spelling of an aircraft type, could cost someone's life in the future.  Get it right or get called on it.  What you write is understood by most, literally as you print/type it.  If you get it wrong in print, someone may have to pay for it with their life.

The helicopter that the CF flies is not a Gryphon.  It is a CH-146 Griffon.  The Gryphon, for all we know, may be some multi-role fighter in Outer Slobovia.

I agree it is a very interesting thread being ruined by someone griping about the usage/spelling of a word. 

Take it to PMs and spare the rest of us your little tirade

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

I am hoping, in hind sight, you can admit that this is somewhat dramatic, and would be suitable as a line in a CBC 'made for TV' movie, just before they cut to commercial....

 

[SupersonicMax]

There is also a really really long waiting period for pilots. You will go to st.jean for your IAP BOTP and then go to Second language training for up to 8 months unless you already speak fluent french. After second language training you will probably end up doing on the job training( which is pretty much doing nothing other then occasionally catching a ride on a herc ) for years before even beginning your real job training. Also the different phases of training has long break between because they are so backed up. I had a bunch of friends back at my basic which was about 11 months ago and they all tell me that all of them won't actually get to fly anything for years to come. If excitement is your primary interest in being a pilot I suggest you look into the actual timeframe of you training at the recruiters and any other pilots in the training system before you sign on the dotted line. Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

Funny, I have friends that just finished Phase IIA that are on Monday's Helo Course and I have friends I graduated from Phase IIA with that are done the Multi Course within 8 months of being done Phase IIA.  Jet guys don't stop between phases.  I suggest you get your info right before you post. 

 

[Elwood]

PM inbound AverageJoe...

 

[Sf2]

For the record, from the start of Phase II to Wings grad was 16 months for me.

And it is spelled Griffon, or else i have a lot of correcting to do in my logbook....about 1500hrs worth.

 

[Zoomie]

And it is spelled Griffon, or else i have a lot of correcting to do in my logbook

You spell out the name of the plane in your logbook?  I barely have enough room to put the CF designator (i.e. CC-115, CH-146,etc)

 

[TheCheez]

Funny, I have friends that just finished Phase IIA that are on Monday's Helo Course and I have friends I graduated from Phase IIA with that are done the Multi Course within 8 months of being done Phase IIA.  Jet guys don't stop between phases.  I suggest you get your info right before you post. 

Max
The significant delays are before Phase II these days as I understand it. For me personally it was 2 years to get to PhIIA(from enrollment) 2 years after starting PhIIA to wings and estimating another 1.5 wait for OTU.

 

[Astrodog]

The significant delays are before Phase II these days as I understand it. For me personally it was 2 years to get to PhIIA(from enrollment) 2 years after starting PhIIA to wings and estimating another 1.5 wait for OTU.

Did you get a phase I bypass? Current wait times, from what I've seen, are 10-14 for Portage (obviously I get the 14mo wait!), 6-8 for Moose Jaw. Of course this is after a max 10 month stay at CFLRS, so you can be looking at well over 24mo til you strap a Harvard on.

 

[pipstah]

Joining the flying club is not for everyone. You'll have to sacrifices alot, for example: being away from family for 8+ months for a course... It's alot of work but at the end it's an awesome job.

For me personally, I don't have a job, I am living my dream. I don't count the hours I spend in the books or the overtime, I'm just loving it. I still remember my first flight in the back when I was a infantry weekend warrior... Did my first river run around Valcatraz man I had a blast. Now, I am doing the same thing but being in the front seat. After landing and talking to the guys when I see their smiles and talking to eachother about their rides is priceless to me. That's the samething when I get a SAR call at 3:00 in the morning.

I guess like the others, the waiting for phase 2A is the longest but after that get ready to go fast speed. Looking at my log book and in a year I flew 3 different aircrafts. I talked to somes OJT at the squadron and they are scheduled to go phase 2A April next year...

I would say yes to do everything again in a heart beat!  ;D

 

[weiss]

Interesting topic.  I am 41, not 31 (don't laugh) and was strongly advised to reactivate my application early next year.  I am making over 100 a year and my job is demanding and probably is just as somebody's dream as is pilot to me. 

I will take an offer if I ever get it.  Here is why:

If I finish my commercial pilot program with helluva lot of sacrifice it will put me down some 30K over what I have already spend on my flying.

Until my early retirement at 55 I will have to spend all my time off flying, and girl I am dating now hates the fact that I will be working 18 hours a day 30 days a month ( my present job + bottom-feeding class 4 instructor or something).

In civilian aviation I  may never make it to multi jets, chances are I will be confined to flying 152's or Duchesses if I am lucky.  It is fun in its own way but...

I love working out and I have heard there are somewhat decent gyms at every base wich I don't have to drive to or pay for.  Ain't it great?

The more I make the more trouble I get myself into.  Right now I am just trying to pay off all outstanding debts to come out debt free.  I must be debt-free to be able to take an offer.

 

[Signalman150]

GungHo,

Just my two cents. I know that elsewhere on the board I've made mention of this, but it bears repeating.

A lot of good advice here, particularly the 'grass is always greener on the other side' stuff.  If you love what yr doing now, keep at it; a good firefighter is worth his or her weight in gold.  However...

I applied to the CF as a pilot back in 1976. For a variety of reasons--some of them being that I was a typical, unfocused idiot teenager, I never followed through.  Eventually I settled on a civilian career and instead did my 'bit' by spending 19 years in the CF reserve (comms).

A while back I was working at an office that was right on the flight path of the Edmonton Municipal Airport. Often as I stood outside taking my smoke-break, I would watch the Hercs coming in on final to the Muni. Every single time I saw one of those Hercs I'd feel my stomach flip flop a little bit.  Why?  Because I'd have rather been an pilot/nav/FE on that Herc than standing on the ground having a smoke and working the civvy job I'd chosen.

CF18s sound pretty glamorous; must be time to break out my old copy of Top Gun again.  But the reality is this; I remember a discussion I witnessed between two captains many years ago in Victoria.  They had both started their flying training at the same time, and I couldn't help but notice that the fighter jock of the two was a little dismayed--and jealous--when he found out that his Argus/Aurora mate had ten times as much flight time logged.

Just some food for thought.  Good luck.

 

[fightergator]

I’ve been a nav and a pilot and I’ve flown several military aircraft types including the Hornet.  For Gung Ho’s clarification, he needs some of the erroneous information provided corrected before he can make an informed decision.  The comment Niteshade made about pay is completely incorrect.  While on training, i.e. pre-wings, assuming Gung Ho has a degree and is entering under DEO, he will make about $50,000/yr.  If he has minimal waiting periods between types of training, he could be promoted to lieutenant rank for a short period of time during which he would be making slightly more.  Upon reaching captain rank, which should occur within a year of receiving wings, the salary jumps to about $77,000 per year including flight pay.  At five years in the captain rank, Gung Ho will be making over $90,000 with flight pay, but that does not include the annual raise we see of about 2% per annum.  The way the pension plan would work for Gung Ho is that he would “build” 2% a year of the average of his best five years.  He would be on a 25 year contract that would see him receive a 50% pension at its completion.  Should he decide to leave the CF prior to contract completion, he would receive an annuity deferred to CRA of 2% per year of the average of his best five years. 

Waiting periods vary.  It appears that the requirement to do SLT prior to pilot training can now be waived depending upon the numbers of trainees available to fill pilot serials.  All of the reports I read in others’ comments were credible.  If a candidate is unlucky, it could take close to three years from beginning Basic Training to earning wings and up to almost two more years prior to completing an OUT.  However, a very lucky individual could end up in the same place in a little over a year and a half. 

As for the fighter pilots who are envious of the hours in a transport pilots log book, I would take that sort of second-hand, overheard conversation with a grain of salt.  True, the extra hours look good when applying for an airline job; however, fighter pilots go through log books at pretty much the same rate as anyone else.  I may have only logged 240 hrs per year on the Hornet, but that equated to about 200 flights and 200 lines in my log book.  Those flights were almost all single-seat, so I didn’t have to work my way through a co-pilot “apprenticeship” and I never had to make a “decision by committee.”  And, unlike a transport aircraft, the hours were almost all hands-on, not on autopilot for hours on end as the plane transited an ocean or large land mass.

To be fair though, it’s been a long time since the Hornets have done anything “real-world” apart from some peacetime NORAD intercepts.  Almost every other fleet has been flying operationally (except, of course, training).  If I had to do it over again right now, I would be looking at the new ship borne helicopter instead of fighters – its combat capabilities, performance and versatility will make it very attractive to mission planners for virtually any geographic location in the world.  The new Chinooks and J model Hercules are also going to see lots of real-world use.  Location also needs to be considered – although the Auroras have lost some of their hours over the last few years, their basing locations in Comox and Greenwood are pretty attractive compared to Cold Lake or Bagotville.  Same for a ship borne helicopter posting to Pat Bay or Shearwater.  Apart from the SAR dets in Goose Bay and Gander, it’s only the fighter and TacHel worlds that seem to have the remote posting locations that Gung Ho would prefer to avoid.

If I were Gung Ho, I would only make the jump to the CF if I could take a sabbatical from my firefighter job so that is was still there in the event that I did not pass the pilot course. 

 

[Loachman]

First piece of advice: Check the profiles of some of the posters in this thread and weigh their advice accordingly.

Second piece, and it's already been said: Decide what you most want to do, really and truly. Take how you think that you would feel if you made the opposite decision into account as well.

I've been doing this for a while, and cannot think of much else that I'd rather do. It fits me. Firefighter would not, and neither would too many other occupations regardless of pay, prestige, or any other measure.

We can tell you - those of us that are actually doing or have done it, and those who are also aircrew of other descriptions, that is - about our experiences, but it's what you want that counts for you.

You are, in a way, lucky to have this dilemma. Most won't get a chance at either calling. That doesn't make it easy, though, I know.