• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

DND warns capability of Canadian military and equipment is dropping

But institutional priorities are set by a body outside the institution. If the Gov decides our priority is to count the holes in the ceiling tiles then that's our priority.

At least that's the way my simple storesmen mind understands things.
Not necessarily....

A lot of the current initiatives were created entirely by the CAF Senior Officer brain-trust as a way to 'combat' the narrative.

Operation HONOUR was a self-licking ice cream cone created by Officer(s) who were eventually brought down by their own product.
 
This!

It didn’t help that DND had a DM (Jody Thomas) who deliberately biased the balance between CAF and DND towards the bureaucracy, under the maskarovka of purging the CAF of the Vance & Friends nexus, appeared (by actions) to press the CAF towards existence as another Government public service entity, vice a defensive force in being.

Hard to know what was at play, whether it included an element of familial retribution for her father lot having seen a career culmination as CDs, or whether she was enabled by her close friend Katie Telford to support behind the scenes actions to support the PM and supporters agenda of friendliness to China…to wit the subsequent near-vacuum of any deliberate pursuit of awareness and establishment of a defensive posture against Canadian government and society and the covering of the PM’s backside (as the National Security and Intelligence Advisor) with the “didn’t think it (foreign interference) was noteworthy of the PM’s attention’…

A lot there, but a large portion of Thomas’ legacy will be the hard drive towards bureaucratizing significant share of senior CAF leadership.
I think there are a lot of useful idiots everywhere and the Senior CAF ranks are no exception. Thomas found her useful idiots in the CAF and they walked right in to a trap of their own making.
 
Public Accounts Committee 18 Dec 24

At 2:20, no additional funds in the Fiscal Update 24/25 to get to 2% of GDP.

No surprise, more sabotage by the Trudeau government to piss off Trump.

 
I will detatch DEI from this and go bigger hand/map.

The whole "Defence Team" concept of DND and CAF being one entity has exacerbated the problem you brought up with chronic overtasking.

The CAF has very clear roles and responsibilities it needs to fill in defence of the realm. It also has an established reporting chain that logically bypasses the head of the Public Service (the Clerk of the Privy Council).

DND Public Servants are still Public Servants. Anything the PCO directs as a mandatory initiative (be it training, advisory councils, awareness campaigns, etc.), DND is on the hook for compliance, but the CAF is pulled along for the ride.

I recently had to complete WMT 101 and WMT 102 through the Canadian School of the Public Service. Why? Because it was mandated that all DND/CAF employees complete it to be in compliance with a larger government initiative. The training cited policies and scenarios that do not exist in the CAF or would be dealt with very differently (an absentee DND PS employee gets a talking to or a write up, Cpl Bloggins is facing administrative or disciplinary measures).

I think if we want to move away from the chronic overtasking, we need to reestablish the line in the sand between DND and CAF.
I had to do that too (as I’m guessing most people do).

I already forgot most of what was on there, which I suppose is indication enough, but for folks who do work with PS folks, it might be worthwhile?

Then again, I just clicked through while on a Teams meeting so technically I didn’t lose any staff time 😏
 
Public Accounts Committee 18 Dec 24

At 2:20, no additional funds in the Fiscal Update 24/25 to get to 2% of GDP.

No surprise, more sabotage by the Trudeau government to piss off Trump.

Before Trump 2.0, there was no indication to get to 2% - as everyone has complained about here.

I’m not sure why people would think otherwise, even with the threat of tariffs.

Cynically, the LPC knows it’s hooped so it doesn’t need to change course - if you’re going down anyway, thrashing about won’t help. The “pissing off Trump” part may be a side effect but I don’t think it’s the main purpose.
 
From my view, the problem with DEI initiatives is that they eat away at your most important commodity: Time.

There are 365 days in a year or broken down in to hours, 8760hrs in a year. Given a standard work week of 40hrs or (8hrs x 5days), you've only got 2080hrs of those 8760hrs available for whatever it is you want done.

I've been out for sometime now but I do remember quite a bit of institutional effort being dedicated to DEI initiatives in both time and resources. Mandatory DLN courses & Briefings, Workshops, Mandatory Reading Materials, etc. Ball-park figure I would use is it probably added up to a full 40hr work week with the amount of material that was expected to be digested....

So 40hrs of work on DEI initiatives per serving regular force member. Publicly available information states that the Regular Force strength is roughly "60000ish" and is about 15% short of the establishment strength.

40hrs x 60000 people = 2,400,000 work hrs.

That's over 2 million work hours of time spent on DEI, that provides no objectively measurable output to the bottom line of the CAF.

This isn't even accounting for the personnel that have been repurposed from their real jobs to new organizations stood up like the Chief Professional Conduct & Culture. This reallocation is happening in an era of scarce resources as well.



My Thought: Perhaps things wouldn't be moving at such a glacial pace if the institution got its priorities straight?
In the last year my sum total “DEI” training - which is basically don’t be an asshole to your coworkers training - amounted to maybe 3 years. That includes my CAF and NATO training. Maybe I’m an outlier but I don’t think so. It’s a nothing burger.
 
In the last year my sum total “DEI” training - which is basically don’t be an asshole to your coworkers training - amounted to maybe 3 years. That includes my CAF and NATO training. Maybe I’m an outlier but I don’t think so. It’s a nothing burger.
3 years?!

I kid - I agree it doesn’t actually take that much time out of your year.

I mean, the US military has an annual “don’t have child porn on your work laptop” course that has to be done, with certificate, so you don’t get locked out of your computer.
 
In the last year my sum total “DEI” training - which is basically don’t be an asshole to your coworkers training - amounted to maybe 3 years. That includes my CAF and NATO training. Maybe I’m an outlier but I don’t think so. It’s a nothing burger.
I don't even think the harassment training has anything to do with DEI; we could all be the same colour, gender etc and still be full of assholes that need to be officially told not to be assholes occasionally, so that you can CYA if you need to fire their jerk ass for it at some point. I still can't figure out what 'DEI initiative' or 'work agenda' is that people think exists. If not being a dick to people is woke, then someone should chastise Jesus for the Beatitudes (treat others like yoy want to be treated).

I'm assuming you meant 'hours' not years' btw, but mine is similar. I wasted more time filling out the same for for every single procurement that there was no GBA+ considerations for buying replacement widgets and there wasn't a suitable dedicated indigenous procurement option (which no one could tell us what a 'yes' would look like). Also repeatedly going to group orientations for new employees with repeated postings to the same L1, and other things, but that's just because no one is allowed to apply common sense.
 
In the last year my sum total “DEI” training - which is basically don’t be an asshole to your coworkers training - amounted to maybe 3 years. That includes my CAF and NATO training. Maybe I’m an outlier but I don’t think so. It’s a nothing burger.
So when you did your DLN courses, did you actually read the material and spend the recommended time learning.and internalizing it, or did you simply click through to get the check in the box?

GBA+ alone is supposed to add up to 5hrs of virtual classroom time and 3hrs of online training.

Let's not mention all of the other training that is supposed to happen.

So your anecdote shows me that you did not take all of the required training or you didn't take the training seriously. If you didn't take the training seriously.... why not?


Now take your specific case and multiply it by everyone else in the CAF.


I don't even think the harassment training has anything to do with DEI; we could all be the same colour, gender etc and still be full of assholes that need to be officially told not to be assholes occasionally, so that you can CYA if you need to fire their jerk ass for it at some point. I still can't figure out what 'DEI initiative' or 'work agenda' is that people think exists. If not being a dick to people is woke, then someone should chastise Jesus for the Beatitudes (treat others like yoy want to be treated).

I'm assuming you meant 'hours' not years' btw, but mine is similar. I wasted more time filling out the same for for every single procurement that there was no GBA+ considerations for buying replacement widgets and there wasn't a suitable dedicated indigenous procurement option (which no one could tell us what a 'yes' would look like). Also repeatedly going to group orientations for new employees with repeated postings to the same L1, and other things, but that's just because no one is allowed to apply common sense.
I rest my case. You've just identified many work hours that could have been recovered for something more productive.
 
So when you did your DLN courses, did you actually read the material and spend the recommended time learning.and internalizing it, or did you simply click through to get the check in the box?

GBA+ alone is supposed to add up to 5hrs of virtual classroom time and 3hrs of online training.

Let's not mention all of the other training that is supposed to happen.

So your anecdote shows me that you did not take all of the required training or you didn't take the training seriously. If you didn't take the training seriously.... why not?


Now take your specific case and multiply it by everyone else in the CAF.



I rest my case. You've just identified many work hours that could have been recovered for something more productive.
I skimmed through it, agreed with a lot of the general principles, and learned some specific terms, but I don't think anyone is internalizing much from an online course, but also took way less than the 'expected time'. While it was cheesy, I think the old SHARP training with in person was more effective, but it's also a high LOE way that needs training to do properly and also took way more time. So the DLN is more efficient at ticking that box, if all you care about was time spent on being 'woke'.

People going into anything thinking it's a waste of time won't take on anything regardless of how you deliver it, and people railing against 'the woke agenda' that are getting pissed off they can't be assholes are probably the ones that need it the most, even if it's only so you can't point to the training as being completed so you can drop the hammer on them.

Getting rid of people is difficult, but I'm happy to have checked the boxes like this if it helps punt someone for being actively racist to coworkers, which sadly still happens.

I've taken god knows how many WHIMS courses, done a lot of safety orientations and all kinds of other things where I didn't learn anything new, and absolutely none of that has anything to do with DEI, but checking boxes is just part of any big organization. At one time it was also the first time I got any of that training and learned something, and frankly reminders of what you are supposed to do never hurt once in a while, as a lot of bad habits can settle in.

Are you going to pretend it's only the CAF that has 'don't be an asshole' refresher training as part of normal HR requirements? Cmon.

People railing against this stuff are pretending like it's new.
 
3 years?!

I kid - I agree it doesn’t actually take that much time out of your year.

I mean, the US military has an annual “don’t have child porn on your work laptop” course that has to be done, with certificate, so you don’t get locked out of your computer.
Damnit, typo, 3 hours lol.
 
So when you did your DLN courses, did you actually read the material and spend the recommended time learning.and internalizing it, or did you simply click through to get the check in the box?

GBA+ alone is supposed to add up to 5hrs of virtual classroom time and 3hrs of online training.

Let's not mention all of the other training that is supposed to happen.

So your anecdote shows me that you did not take all of the required training or you didn't take the training seriously. If you didn't take the training seriously.... why not?

I actually do read it, I find in general what DLN expects it to take for me to read a page to be wildly longer than what it would take a reasonable person to do. GBA plus is a one time thing btw.


What’s all this other training on DEI I’m supposed to do? When I check my mandatory courses it was only the NATO courses for deployments. When was the last time you looked into CAF annual training requirements?
 
Who has read “Fighting Spirit”; the CAFs new publication on the profession of arms?

It is supposed to embody the current CAF understanding of what the CAF is and what it wants to be and is directly related to how members think about the organization.

Is it helping or hurting morale and how does one measure that? Initial reviews are not positive, but that view is not expressed by senior personnel in public for obvious reasons.

 
I actually do read it, I find in general what DLN expects it to take for me to read a page to be wildly longer than what it would take a reasonable person to do. GBA plus is a one time thing btw.


What’s all this other training on DEI I’m supposed to do? When I check my mandatory courses it was only the NATO courses for deployments. When was the last time you looked into CAF annual training requirements?
You are correct. The only annual part is the Ethics discussion, which is…30 mins a year, in a group? People do it as part of a Lunch and Learn.

Or some units do one training day a year, where that is included with the General Safety, etc stuff we need to do for our jobs.

As an aside, the NATO-wide version of the GBA+ course is actually really good. It’s through the NATO School online.
 
You are correct. The only annual part is the Ethics discussion, which is…30 mins a year, in a group? People do it as part of a Lunch and Learn.

Or some units do one training day a year, where that is included with the General Safety, etc stuff we need to do for our jobs.

As an aside, the NATO-wide version of the GBA+ course is actually really good. It’s through the NATO School online.
Yes the NATO course does a better job putting it into an operational context I agree. Still very doable in 1-2 hours.
 
So when you did your DLN courses, did you actually read the material and spend the recommended time learning.and internalizing it, or did you simply click through to get the check in the box?

GBA+ alone is supposed to add up to 5hrs of virtual classroom time and 3hrs of online training.

Let's not mention all of the other training that is supposed to happen.

So your anecdote shows me that you did not take all of the required training or you didn't take the training seriously. If you didn't take the training seriously.... why not?


Now take your specific case and multiply it by everyone else in the CAF.



I rest my case. You've just identified many work hours that could have been recovered for something more productive.
Your last few comments have really made me ponder something - should the CAF (and govt in general) be run like a business or not?

In private industry, the goal is profit so if there is dead time, people should be doing something else so “unnecessary” (whatever it may be) stuff should be reduced.

So that’s fair, but then there is the counter argument that a military should not be structured like a business (just in time delivery, minimal staffing, that kind of stuff). Plus, the goal for the military isn’t to earn profit or even be the most efficient - or else we would just disband everyone when not actively in a war. A private company would not keep people around in case anything blows up (quite literally) and we need to send people elsewhere, nor store things in the off chance that they might be required.

Then, there’s the blowback about the “MBA-ification of the CAF” (the whole ad with the executive coming out of the aircraft). So clearly there is another argument against running it like a business.

Hmm…
 
So when you did your DLN courses, did you actually read the material and spend the recommended time learning.and internalizing it, or did you simply click through to get the check in the box?

GBA+ alone is supposed to add up to 5hrs of virtual classroom time and 3hrs of online training.

Let's not mention all of the other training that is supposed to happen.

So your anecdote shows me that you did not take all of the required training or you didn't take the training seriously. If you didn't take the training seriously.... why not?


Now take your specific case and multiply it by everyone else in the CAF.



I rest my case. You've just identified many work hours that could have been recovered for something more productive.

I pride myself on not being a racist or prejudiced asshole. So generally just click through as fast as possible; you know so I can get back to leading my people and helping them with their problems and issues.
 
I skimmed through it, agreed with a lot of the general principles, and learned some specific terms, but I don't think anyone is internalizing much from an online course, but also took way less than the 'expected time'. While it was cheesy, I think the old SHARP training with in person was more effective, but it's also a high LOE way that needs training to do properly and also took way more time. So the DLN is more efficient at ticking that box, if all you care about was time spent on being 'woke'.

People going into anything thinking it's a waste of time won't take on anything regardless of how you deliver it, and people railing against 'the woke agenda' that are getting pissed off they can't be assholes are probably the ones that need it the most, even if it's only so you can't point to the training as being completed so you can drop the hammer on them.

Getting rid of people is difficult, but I'm happy to have checked the boxes like this if it helps punt someone for being actively racist to coworkers, which sadly still happens.

I've taken god knows how many WHIMS courses, done a lot of safety orientations and all kinds of other things where I didn't learn anything new, and absolutely none of that has anything to do with DEI, but checking boxes is just part of any big organization. At one time it was also the first time I got any of that training and learned something, and frankly reminders of what you are supposed to do never hurt once in a while, as a lot of bad habits can settle in.
Are you going to pretend it's only the CAF that has 'don't be an asshole' refresher training as part of normal HR requirements? Cmon.
Comparing my experience in the private sector to that of my CAF experience, the amount of time I spend on this stuff is basically non-existent. It's "here is the policy, if you break it, it may be grounds for termination".

Do we have policies and procedures in place to deal with equity issues? Yes. Does it take up as much time as it did when I was a CAF member? Not even close.

We also have a large portion of the workforce that is paid by the hour. I've got a 105 employees who work for me and every cost is tracked. This stuff all falls under non-productive billable hours of work so it's important to keep it as concise and to the point as possible.

People railing against this stuff are pretending like it's new.
It's not new; however, it has evolved.

I pride myself on not being a racist or prejudiced asshole. So generally just click through as fast as possible; you know so I can get back to leading my people and helping them with their problems and issues.
You and @markppcli miss my point. The problem with the CAFs efforts IMO is that it wreaks of tokenism which is exactly why these initiatives don't work. I've been out a few years and I'm not up to date on the latest offerings but when I was in, I do remember spending a lot more time than an hour or two on these topics.

Your last few comments have really made me ponder something - should the CAF (and govt in general) be run like a business or not?

In private industry, the goal is profit so if there is dead time, people should be doing something else so “unnecessary” (whatever it may be) stuff should be reduced.

So that’s fair, but then there is the counter argument that a military should not be structured like a business (just in time delivery, minimal staffing, that kind of stuff). Plus, the goal for the military isn’t to earn profit or even be the most efficient - or else we would just disband everyone when not actively in a war.

I have a differing opinion:

Does the Military have capital assets? Yes.
Does the Military have a multitude of functions? Yes.
Does the Military have an upstream and a downstream supply chain? Yes.
Does the Military have a diverse workforce? Yes.
Is the Military subject to audits? Yes.

The Military is the most serious business there is and if it wants to be the best it can be, it needs to adopt world class business practices so that the Nations sons and daughters are not ill-prepared for the missions they undertake.

A private company would not keep people around in case anything blows up (quite literally) and we need to send people elsewhere, nor store things in the off chance that they might be required.
We actually do keep people around for that believe it or not, and those are the people with the best job security in the business. When everyone else is getting furloughed, they still keep their job.
Then, there’s the blowback about the “MBA-ification of the CAF” (the whole ad with the executive coming out of the aircraft). So clearly there is another argument against running it like a business.

Hmm…
This is more of a CAF/GoC issue. The public sector attaches a level of importance to some of these certifications that isn't really warranted. Outside of Consulting, Finance/Banking, Govt, MBAs are not really required for high office.

I think the Military needs invest in its own programs that suit the profession of arms, like spending significantly more on War Colleges for Officers and enhancing the programs delivered to Senior NCOs.
 
In the last year my sum total “DEI” training - which is basically don’t be an asshole to your coworkers training - amounted to maybe 3 years. That includes my CAF and NATO training. Maybe I’m an outlier but I don’t think so. It’s a nothing burger.
the highlighted part shows common sense and respect for others....

Which should be a quality we all possess.
 
Back
Top