Directives to military chaplains urge expunging God, religion from Remembrance Day, public ceremonies

[YZT580]

I really wish people would bloody well stop pretending like we can't take that part of a Chaplain Officer's role and responsibilities and give it to someone else.

The Padres do that because that's their job. That's why we keep them around. Even if we eliminate Chaplains as a trade, that job can be taken on by another group.

Again, bull. The Padres do that because of their faith. Being a chaplain is a vocation and not just a job for them. The grievances they hear and the heartaches they share with the troops that call upon them puts a strain on them that is every bit as severe as PTSD except they don't leave it behind after the posting they hear it again and again upon return. It isn't a role that you can assign someone else as if he were simply driving a tank.

 

[btrudy]

Rory Fowler's take on the issue.

 

[Good2Golf]

Rory Fowler's take on the issue.

Seems he’s at odds with you…

My point is this: there is still a role for Chaplains, notwithstanding that it has evolved, and likely will continue to evolve.

 

[OldSolduer]

And I really wish people would bloody well stop pretending like we can take that part of a chaplain officer’s role and responsibilities and give it to someone else.

It’s a case of « if the system isn’t broken, don’t try to fix it ».

All I see is a disaster in the making. We have precedence, current situation and a lack of trust that backs that assertion up.

Who do you give that job to? What group? I’ve (and a few others) already posted a few facts as to why I don’t think social workers can or would be able to do it.

I fully agree with you. Padres are ESSENTIAL and I can give personal testimony to back that up.
What social worker can give council to grieving parents of a fallen soldier? What social worker can grieve with parents that have lost a child to an automobile accident? The padre did in BOTH cases and how do I know?

Cause it happened to us. We would rather have a padre by our side than a social worker.

RANT ENDS.

 

[btrudy]

Seems he’s at odds with you…

Eh, I don't think we're in any violent disagreement here. He's arguing that there's still a role to be played by the Chaplains even without leading prayers; I certainly haven't been disagreeing here. The religious aspects are the least important parts of their job.

The role the play beyond that is still very important, I've just been further suggesting that it could be done by another group if need be. Not necessarily that it should. Everyone on here who kept insisting that only Padres could possibly play that role simply seemed to incorrectly conflate the two.

As long as the Chaplain Branch can keep the religious aspects to actual religious services, and not let them intrude into other aspects of their official duties, I'm fine with keeping the status quo.

 

[YZT580]

Eh, I don't think we're in any violent disagreement here. He's arguing that there's still a role to be played by the Chaplains even without leading prayers; I certainly haven't been disagreeing here. The religious aspects are the least important parts of their job.

The role the play beyond that is still very important, I've just been further suggesting that it could be done by another group if need be. Not necessarily that it should. Everyone on here who kept insisting that only Padres could possibly play that role simply seemed to incorrectly conflate the two.

As long as the Chaplain Branch can keep the religious aspects to actual religious services, and not let them intrude into other aspects of their official duties, I'm fine with keeping the status quo.

You totally do not understand. It is not possible to separate the chaplain from his religion. That is not a great word a better one is his faith. It is through his faith that he is able to provide comfort, advice when asked, and a shoulder for whenever. Religion is simply the rules etc. governing the services and a formal outline of the things he/she believes. Asking a padre to use banal words and trite statements is to belittle him and mock his faith. If you want a remembrance day service devoid of spiritual content, so be it, ask the CO or the athletic director to conduct it. No argument there. No priest, preacher, rabbi need apply. But don't ask them to be a part of the ceremony and then order him to deny his own calling. It is insulting.

 

[Good2Golf]

Eh, I don't think we're in any violent disagreement here. He's arguing that there's still a role to be played by the Chaplains even without leading prayers; I certainly haven't been disagreeing here. The religious aspects are the least important parts of their job.

The role the play beyond that is still very important, I've just been further suggesting that it could be done by another group if need be. Not necessarily that it should. Everyone on here who kept insisting that only Padres could possibly play that role simply seemed to incorrectly conflate the two.

As long as the Chaplain Branch can keep the religious aspects to actual religious services, and not let them intrude into other aspects of their official duties, I'm fine with keeping the status quo.

I really wish people would bloody well stop pretending like we can't take that part of a Chaplain Officer's role and responsibilities and give it to someone else.

The Padres do that because that's their job. That's why we keep them around. Even if we eliminate Chaplains as a trade, that job can be taken on by another group.

 

[RangerRay]

Yes let’s get rid of an entire trade and replace it entirely with another one that recruits from a profession that is dismally understaffed on the civilian side. Brilliant.

 

[btrudy]

Yes let’s get rid of an entire trade and replace it entirely with another one that recruits from a profession that is dismally understaffed on the civilian side. Brilliant.

Or alternatively, let's get rid of the problematic "prayer at what should be non-religious ceremonies" aspect of things, so we don't feel the need to.

 

[lenaitch]

Or alternatively, let's get rid of the problematic "prayer at what should be non-religious ceremonies" aspect of things, so we don't feel the need to.

It's only problematic to those who follow the 'if it doesn't reflect me then it offends me' playbook.

I am absolutely of no faith or religion, yet have have managed to survive standing quietly and respectfully through all sorts of prayers and invocations, including First Nation ones which are apparently above reproach, and even those in languages I don't understand, and have managed to keep my physical and mental well-being intact.

I thought we were supposed to be tolerant and accommodating.

 

[NavalMoose]

It's only problematic to those who follow the 'if it doesn't reflect me then it offends me' playbook.

I am absolutely of no faith or religion, yet have have managed to survive standing quietly and respectfully through all sorts of prayers and invocations, including First Nation ones which are apparently above reproach, and even those in languages I don't understand, and have managed to keep my physical and mental well-being intact.

I thought we were supposed to be tolerant and accommodating.

Exactly, we've all done it at some point in our careers and no harm was done. If it makes other people feel good, I have no problem sitting/standing through it. We, or at least I, joined to serve after all.

 

[mariomike]

We always had a departmental chaplain where I worked. They serve active and retired members.

I think he is especially appreciated by the pensioners.

I suppose it's the same in any organization with a chaplain.

 

[btrudy]

It's only problematic to those who follow the 'if it doesn't reflect me then it offends me' playbook.

I am absolutely of no faith or religion, yet have have managed to survive standing quietly and respectfully through all sorts of prayers and invocations, including First Nation ones which are apparently above reproach, and even those in languages I don't understand, and have managed to keep my physical and mental well-being intact.

I thought we were supposed to be tolerant and accommodating.

Tolerant and accommodating of each individual's religious needs is not compatible with government promoting any particular religion. Or religion at all.

Exactly, we've all done it at some point in our careers and no harm was done. If it makes other people feel good, I have no problem sitting/standing through it. We, or at least I, joined to serve after all.

No harm done to you. You didn't consider it harmful. Not all people share your opinion on the matter.

 

[Furniture]

No harm done to you. You didn't consider it harmful. Not all people share your opinion on the matter.

Interestingly, people opposed to religion never consider the harm done to those who practice it when it's watered down or eliminated.

 

[btrudy]

Interestingly, people opposed to religion never consider the harm done to those who practice it when it's watered down or eliminated.

People are free to practice their own religions as they see fit. Nothing at all is being watered down simply by not having the government promoting it.

Eliminating unfair and unreasonable promotion of religion is not doing harm to it. It's just bringing things back to neutral. No religion ever should have been promoted in this manner.

This is a clear case of "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression". You're not being oppressed. You're just not being unfairly advantaged anymore.

 

[Jarnhamar]

When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression". You're not being oppressed. You're just not being unfairly advantaged anymore.

If the CAF has 10 people apply for something and 4 of them are white then the 4 white applicants should automatically be placed last in the list. Equality 101.

 

[lenaitch]

Tolerant and accommodating of each individual's religious needs is not compatible with government promoting any particular religion. Or religion at all.

What some view as "promoting" others may view as 'accommodating'.

In your world, it seems that if a member was in some sort of crisis and sought out in-house (or in-field) religious guidance, they should be refused.

I've never been forced to attend a function that had a religious component; although I can appreciate that some on here might have been. Even at that, the extent of my exposure was to stand there respectfully. I wasn't compelled to participate beyond that.

 

[btrudy]

What some view as "promoting" others may view as 'accommodating'.

In your world, it seems that if a member was in some sort of crisis and sought out in-house (or in-field) religious guidance, they should be refused.

...

No one in crisis is receiving help via prayers at public ceremonies. Quit straw-manning.

I've never been forced to attend a function that had a religious component; although I can appreciate that some on here might have been. Even at that, the extent of my exposure was to stand there respectfully. I wasn't compelled to participate beyond that.

Religion is a private matter for individuals (and groups thereof), and is not something that the government should ever be either encouraging or discouraging. Compelling attendance at events with religious components (however minor) encourages and promotes that religion (or just that set of religions when said prayer is watered down to be mostly non-denominational, which still ends up being at least theistic, and usually monotheistic). It's inappropriate for government to be putting its thumb on the scale and picking which religions are valid and should be used or supported in public ceremonies and which ones shouldn't.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This is a clear case of "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression". You're not being oppressed. You're just not being unfairly advantaged anymore.

Is that from BLM? Or CRT?

 

[Furniture]

This is a clear case of "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression". You're not being oppressed. You're just not being unfairly advantaged anymore.

Historically privileged, university educated elite, parroting government lines, tells high school educated worker to check their privilege...