Dion's opinions/garble.

[aesop081]

Our military went to Cyprus for 6 months and stayed for a lot longer than that, I sure hope thats not the case in Afghanistan.

We went to the FRY for over a decade. I hope that you were saying the same thing about that mission. If not, that makes you a hypocrite and you should just stop talking.

 

[armyvern]

Well, and then there were the 30 some odd years in the Golan ...  :

(and we've STILL got pers there despite CanCon LogBatt 'disappearing' ...)

But, I guess since it's a blue beret smiley-mission -- it must be OK.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

I must say that this has been a very entertaining read. I respect others opinion, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with them and that's what makes this a great country. Engaging, in sighfull and maybe sometimes a bit naive on some parties, but in all a delightfull way to spend and hour or so. Thank You.

This is for those who would like us all to live in the "ideal world". I'm sorry to inform you, but this world doesn't exist. In a ideal world, we would all be sitting down together over a nice cup of coffee, enaging in a truly Utopian conversations, we're no one disagrees or becomes angry, because there's nothing to disagree about and nothing to anger anyone. There would be no crime, wars, hunger, murders, hatred, bigotry, dictators, crimes against humanity and so forth. I must say that does sounds rather pleasing, but I think it would be just a bit boring. You get up, you get dressed, you hug and kiss your family, hug and kiss your neighbours and you tell everyone, how much you love each and everyone of them. That's a stretch, but that's my point. We're human, humans are emotional creatures and that makes the lot us of irrational, well I would say 75% of the time. The other 25% is spent beating, killing, waring and brutalizing each other. Our emotions run our lives and most decisions made by emotions are irrational. So unless someone can come up with a gene that turns of our emotions and turns us all into a plumpy lumps of goo, we'll keep on beating, killing, waring and brutalizing each other. It's human nature and like it or not we're stuck with it and no amount of talk, hugging and kissing is going to change that, sorry.

As for Mr. Dion's remarks, he has had his 15 minutes of fame, now his balloon has lost most of it's hot air and he seems to be sliding down a slippery slope heading straight for a collision with a garbage receptacle we're his good Friend Mr. Layton resides. Some people think that there are simple answers when dealing with Afghanstan, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. This is a very complex situation, involving many players and pulling us out in 09 is not going to change anything. The problems will still remain, the only difference is now that the security aspect has been removed (combat troops) more people (mostly Canadians)will be killed while trying to make a difference. I just wish some people would see this for what it is, a very big problem and one that if we ignore, we will see many more people coming back in body bags. I would then like to hear Mr. Dion's explanation or lack of on that subject, not if it happens, but when it happens, because when it happens I think he will be running for the exit door.

 

[Kirkhill]

enaging in a truly Utopian conversations

Beg to differ RG45.  In Utopia there is no disharmony, no disagreement, therefore no discussion, no conversation, just an awful lot of bored people staring at each other over their morning coffee......Hmm, that image seems vaguely familiar.

Aside from that I have to agree.  Pass the coffee.

 

[a_majoor]

In a ideal world, we would all be sitting down together over a nice cup of coffee, enaging in a truly Utopian conversations, we're no one disagrees or becomes angry, because there's nothing to disagree about and nothing to anger anyone.

You already have let loose the dogs of war in Utopia......some people will demand tea  ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

And Thucydides does it again.....he takes us No Place.

 

[GAP]

Boy, Dion is a walking poster boy for the Conservatives....

Everytime this guy opens his mouth, something wonderful just pops out......atta boy Stefan....!!  ;D

 

[MarkOttawa]

A post at The Torch on what M. Dion seems not to know:

More of M. Dion's ignorance
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/01/more-of-m-dions-ignorance.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[RangerRay]

I feel that the reason that our government is supporting this war, is because Bush wishes it to be so. and that goes for this present government and the last one.

That statement alone shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.  Those who have been there have tried to educate you, yet you insist that they are insulting you when they show you the truth.

 

[Good2Golf]

....
The Liberal leader complained that Guergis announced last Saturday that he and deputy Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff would be visiting the reconstruction team.

"She revealed where we were going, Mr. Ignatieff and me, putting at risk, not only ourselves, but also all the members of the (Canadian) delegation," Dion told reporters in Quebec City.

Dion added that the action also threatened the safety of the Afghan and Canadian military who were accompanying them.
....

:

However, if Mr. Dion had been accompanied by DFAIT personnel and police, he would be entirely safe, because Afghanistan is a diplomatic and development issue, not a military one.

I say again,  :

 

[Good2Golf]

As others have said, Dion is the best thing ever to have happened to the Conservatives...  :

So we've gone from "pullout" to "I want a military role after 2009, but it must be more linked to security than proactive combat with the insurgents."

Sounds like he's giving himself flex to say that reactive combat is okay.  It's only a matter of time before he grudginly admits that we are doing exactly the right balance of defence, development and diplomacy right now....you know, the mission that the Liberals directed in 2005 to move from Kabul down to Kandahar.

*sigh*

 

[armyvern]

G2G ... did you just say "Three Block War?" 

 

[Good2Golf]

G2G ... did you just say "Three Block War?" 

When Dion starts quoting Gen Krulak and his Three Block War, I'll know the earth's poles are about to flip...

G2G

 

[Boxkicker]

My contention is that some of these respected public figures and partisan appointments do not have the capability to make a thorough analysis.  What is wrong with appointing some old soldiers and foreign affairs people to this commission?   I would take Lew Mackenzie or Romeo D'Aillaire over Pamela Wallin any day.  By the way Petraeus  went against public opinion.  The American people wanted out of Iraq and he told Congress that that would not work and to put more soldiers in.

  General Mackenzie has spoke on this many times, there is a fantastic article in the Ottawa Citizen dated the 17th of January I do believe it would be a good read for you.
  As for the committee, I will say I do not like many Liberals but John Manley was one I could repsect. I feel he is qualified to head something on this subject. As foreign affairs minister during 9/11 the former ambassador to the US, along with a few other jobs he has been deeply involved with this file since it started.
  You state the PM has not shown leadership, I contend that if the Liberals had not flip-flopped on a mission they started, the very day they moved to opposition we would not be going through this now. This panel was created to appease the Liberals and shut them up with a very prominent Liberal. We all know the PM's opinion it has not changed since day one, it is the Liberals who cannot make up there mind.

 

[armyvern]

When Dion starts quoting Gen Krulak and his Three Block War, I'll know the earth's poles are about to flip...

G2G

No worries, they'll still blame it on the Tories & global warming, all wrapped up nicely for the left with a Kyoto ribbon. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but seems like a good place to put it.  It's Peter Worthington's Comment in the 18 Jan issue of the Toronto Sun.

Dion will never be pal of soldiers

Mods, feel free to delete if already posted or move to a more appropriate thread.

 

[TCBF]

perhaps parliment can have a civilized up front discussion on Canadas role in Afghanistan. Discuss why our Nato allies are so relucant to sent their military into the south, to help in the fight. ....

- They are getting even with us for pulling out of the north German plain in 1970, cutting our Brigade in half, moving it to Lahr/Baden and de-nuking our Starfighters.  Nothing personal.

 

[Good2Golf]

well maybe he will change his position on this, who really knows. He hasnt changed his positon on the liberal policy for afghanistan. I am not blinded to politicans from every party making promises that are quickly broken once in power or playing to the voters. There will be a lot of wild statements from politicans in the months running up to the next election.  I do wish there was another leader of the libs, i do agree that Dions communication skills leave a lot to be desired, but I could say that of Harper as well.

Yes he has.  Late last year, the position was to withdraw from combat operations in 2009.  Now it is to have a military role after 2009, but one that is "more linked to security than proactive combat with the insurgents."


You can't honestly tell us that is the same policy?  ???

 

[a_majoor]

This post attempts to see where Mr Dion is coming from (and also offers an endorsement of.......Army.ca!)

http://climbingoutofthedark.blogspot.com/2008/01/dion-wants-to-neuter-them.html

Friday, January 18, 2008
Dion Wants To Neuter Them!
Dion stepped in the pooh, big time the other day, wanting to invade Pakistan. Interesting article at the Toronto Sun.

From his visit last weekend to Afghanistan, it seems clear that if Stephane Dion ever becomes prime minister of Canada, the Armed Forces will be reduced to their previous depleted strength and their role limited as it was in the Trudeau years.

Jean Chretien, too, robbed the military -- preferring a $500 million penalty rather than honouring a contract to re-equip our soldiers and sailors with EH101 helicopters.

Unlike Deputy Leader Michael Ignatieff, who accompanied him to Kabul and Kandahar for a quick look-see, Dion has little appreciation, empathy or understanding of soldiers or things military. Come to think of it, he probably viscerally and intellectually dislikes soldiers.

I bet he dislikes soldiers too, they have guns you know!

In his press conference on leaving Afghanistan, Dion seemed to think our role should consist of turning soldiers into social workers -- no more seek and destroy stuff our troops have been doing so effectively.

Instead he wants our troops building schools, enhancing women's rights, digging wells for fresh water, training and assisting local communities. Silly ass. What escapes Dion's limited comprehension is that our troops have been doing all this social work stuff from day one, as well as kicking butt of the Taliban.

Well, as a sociologist, Dion is "artsy" as opposed to "realistic". By the way, what do sociologists actually DO? Really that's a serious question. I know I had to take some sociology courses to get my degree, but they were my fluff courses, I never actually attended the classes, I just wrote the exams, passed, and moved on. So who hires sociologists? Funny that Dion, who wants our soldiers to become social workers, has now come out wanting to invade Pakistan, slip of the tongue or lack of real brain power?

To the dismay of some, the Canadian public likes and trusts its military. Gen. Rick Hillier, personifying the Armed Forces, is more popular and trusted than any politician. Perhaps this is more a condemnation of politicians than an endorsement of him, but it's a fact, and a reason why the mutterings of either Dion or Layton don't deserve much attention.

One hopes Harper holds steady on Afghanistan, and listens to realists and humanitarians -- our soldiers.

"Listen to realists and humanitarians", this seems to be a contradiction if you listen to Liberals, but it is our soldiers who understand what it is to truly help people in need, not the sociologists of this world.

One of my favorite sites is Army.ca. If you want a grounded, balanced, common sense forum, this is it! Expect to back up what you post with FACTS, opinions alone are not often tolerated. These are the people protecting Canadians and doing an excellent job.

They have guns, and they know how to use them, to protect people who can't protect themselves.

Dion wants to neuter them. He wants to make them eunuch's, this should never be allowed, like it was in Rowanda and Bosnia, and all other UN "peacekeeping" missions the mushy lefties praise so much.

 

[sgf]

Yes he has.  Late last year, the position was to withdraw from combat operations in 2009.  Now it is to have a military role after 2009, but one that is "more linked to security than proactive combat with the insurgents."


You can't honestly tell us that is the same policy?  ???

well since you asked.. no.. its not the same policy.. but we all know only too well how often politicans change their mind.. for example harper on that atlantic accord, income trust, and putting unelected members into cabinet. all politicans do it and having said that there is a liberal policy on afganistan, and i think its a good plan