Different Unit's policies on non-issued chest rigs

[Forgotten_Hero]

Recently, the exercises my unit has been conducting have been requiring more than the standard 5 magazines per rifleman, and we're taking a shift towards carrying minimum 10 mags per rifleman, as it's done overseas. The problem with this has become immediately apparent when some soldier's mags had fallen out of their c9 pouch while conducting contact drills. I'm planning on drafting a proposition to my units CoC to authorize the wear of tacvest modifications or aftermarket vests, within certain limits. I'm wondering if there's any precedent for this sort of thing set by any other units, since I feel that it would strengthen my proposition if it were the case. Does anyone know of any units that do so?

 

[MikeL]

The fact that there's a MFR should strengthen your argument.  For 2PPCLI shortly before we deployed on TF 1-08 the CO/RSM had an approved list of Aftermarket gear Companies/Rigs we could wear(buy ourselves) for tour, ie HSGI Warlord, TT MAV, etc. Some rigs were issued to some members for trials. Then eventually during the tour we could wear anything as long as it was a good rig(not going to fall apart)

 

[armyvern]

Recently, the exercises my unit has been conducting have been requiring more than the standard 5 magazines per rifleman, and we're taking a shift towards carrying minimum 10 mags per rifleman, as it's done overseas. The problem with this has become immediately apparent when some soldier's mags had fallen out of their c9 pouch while conducting contact drills. I'm planning on drafting a proposition to my units CoC to authorize the wear of tacvest modifications or aftermarket vests, within certain limits. I'm wondering if there's any precedent for this sort of thing set by any other units, since I feel that it would strengthen my proposition if it were the case. Does anyone know of any units that do so?

Tac Vests are a National managed/nationally funded item*** - vice an LL (Local/Local) - item thus no one at a "unit" level is authorized to authorize any modifications to them. Any modification would have to be recommended to the national level through the local CoC using the UCR process. Search this site using "Tac Vest UCR" (Unsatisfactory Condition Report) and you'll find that it's been done to death here.

Now, if a CO & RSM at the local level were to authorize the use of chest rigs, that's something altogether different; but they would be prohibited from purchasing those items for their troops to wear as per CANFORGEN as they simply have no authority to utilize tax payer funds for buys of clothing and equipment for individual wear (as this is a second line supply function vice a first line unit function --- and 2nd line supply function equals a Base clothing stores not a Unit QM shop). They may get away with authorizing their troops to "buy themselves a chest rig and wear it for trg." Some would even argue that one though.

The fact that there's a MFR should strengthen your argument.  For 2PPCLI shortly before we deployed on TF 1-08 the CO/RSM had an approved list of Aftermarket gear Companies/Rigs we could wear for tour, ie HSGI Warlord, TT MAV, etc.  Then eventually during the tour we could wear anything as long as it was a good rig(not going to fall apart)

***Note: 2 PPCLI was/is a much different situation as they were authorized by national level to "trial" specific types of chest rigs while deployed internationally. That authority was given to them (along with an approved list of rig types) by the centre, for deployed trials.

 

[MikeL]

Tac Vests are a National managed/nationally funded item*** - vice an LL (Local/Local) - item thus no one at a "unit" level is authorized to authorize any modifications to them. Any modification would have to be recommended to the national level through the local CoC using the UCR process.

Perhaps, Nero meant non permanent mods, ie attaching extra pouches or replacing the removeable C9/Utility and Canteen pouches with MOLLE adaptors and pouches, such as those sold by CP Gear and other Gear companies.  This seems like a popular way to modify the tac vest to make it better that is already being done by many troops in field units.

 

[armyvern]

Perhaps, Nero meant non permanent mods, ie attaching extra pouches or replacing the removeable C9/Utility and Canteen pouches with MOLLE adaptors and pouches, such as those sold by CP Gear and other Gear companies.  This seems like a popular way to modify the tac vest to make it better that is already being done by many troops in field units.

And, perhaps he meant something more than that such as a permanent modification ; I've now covered that base (& the 2 PPCLI base: ie: other people do it, so we must be able to) regardless.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

Skeletor: whats an MFR?

And you were right, I meant the attachments you can get from CP gear.

Do either of you know of any units that have authorized the use of aftermarket rigs not as part of a trial nor specifically for tour? Ive heard some rumors from a unit out east, but that info is years too old to be of any use.

 

[medicineman]

CTS did come up with some little insert for the C-9 pouch to take 6 C-7 mags - don't know if it's still available or even if the trial went very well.  You could start there.

MM

 

[MikeL]

Modular Fighting Rig, ie the tac vest replacement AFAIK the current Battle Group overseas has one, and members of 1PPCLI have another. Theres a lot of info on it on these boards.

In 2PPCLI, I've seen guys wear non issue rigs during unit training(non Task Force stuff). All depends on where you are in the Battalion(ie Rifly Coy, Recce, etc) and who is in charge at the time, etc I'm sure 1st and 3rd Battalions(PPCLI) would be the same.

 

[BDTyre]

I've worn a MAV on a few exercices. CSM dictated we could wear our own rigs, given a few stipulations. First and foremost, it had to be CADPAT or OD, or a combination. Arid was a big no-no, and coyote and MultiCam are borderline (I've seen a few people get away with pouches of various colours). It had to be from a "recognized" brand (no overseas knock-offs). Privates were recommended to consult with the Pl WO. Most importantly, you had to know how to use it and be comfortable with it. This should come naturally, but they didn't want Pte Bloggins showing up looking like a gypsy caravan and fumbling to get mags out during gunfighter drills.

I've seen other units in the area with a similar policy. I've seen a few guys wearing all coyote brown, but their unit may have authorized that.

 

[acen]

In the Camerons, non-issued kit is almost as prevalent as issued. In regards to chest rigs, I wear a completely OD TT MAV 1 piece w/bib without issue. I had the CO question me on it once, but in a more friendly manner than anything. If it's solid gear, from a well known manufacturer, that will help you complete your task better than the issued gear can offer you, there is no issues whatsoever. As long as it's some sort of green, well made, and not a step down from the issued gear.

 

[dapaterson]

In the Camerons, non-issued kit is almost as prevalent as issued. In regards to chest rigs, I wear a completely OD TT MAV 1 piece w/bib without issue. I had the CO question me on it once, but in a more friendly manner than anything. If it's solid gear, from a well known manufacturer, that will help you complete your task better than the issued gear can offer you, there is no issues whatsoever. As long as it's some sort of green, well made, and not a step down from the issued gear.

I am indeed pleased that you, personally, an are expert in human factors, logistics and systems integration and thus able to determine whether a piece of equipment is or is not a step down from issued gear.

 

[DirtyDog]

I am indeed pleased that you, personally, an are expert in human factors, logistics and systems integration and thus able to determine whether a piece of equipment is or is not a step down from issued gear.

Indeed.  Especially since the "experts" have come up with such outstanding kit in the last few years and have issued it out so seamlessly.

 

[Infanteer]

I am indeed pleased that you, personally, an are expert in human factors, logistics and systems integration and thus able to determine whether a piece of equipment is or is not a step down from issued gear.

Doesn't need to be.  My soldiers were smart enough to know what worked for them and what didn't and how it integrated with the rest of their gear.  My NCOs were sharp enough to make sure they weren't wearing something sub-standard.

 

[Snaketnk]

Infanteer... I wish the whole of the Army and the Infatry and particular used that mind set.