DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"

[daftandbarmy]

Who ever gets off the bus.... And it's usually the same bunch.

Unfortunately, the elephant in the room is that many of our soldiers' senior leaders ride the 'short bus', which factors in to the decision of a reservist to even get on the bus in the first place.  ;D

 

[pbi]

Who ever gets off the bus.... And it's usually the same bunch.

I think it 'twas ever so. I know it was that way when I joined the Militia in 1974, and never changed much until I ended up my days, once again, in the Reserve in 2012. It might be a problem for all volunteer organizations: when I was in Quantico VA I belonged to our local volunteer fire dept. We had well over 100 names on paper but on some nights we could barely crew two pieces of apparatus. But, when we had the annual summer FD fish fry on the shores of Chesapeake Bay: look at all them guys with "Volunteer Firefighter" t-shirts on!

Something similar, I think.

 

[George Wallace]

I think it 'twas ever so. I know it was that way when I joined the Militia in 1974, and never changed much until I ended up my days, once again, in the Reserve in 2012. It might be a problem for all volunteer organizations: when I was in Quantico VA I belonged to our local volunteer fire dept. We had well over 100 names on paper but on some nights we could barely crew two pieces of apparatus. But, when we had the annual summer FD fish fry on the shores of Chesapeake Bay: look at all them guys with "Volunteer Firefighter" t-shirts on!

Something similar, I think.

Would this qualify them as "Walt Wannabes"?    >

 

[pbi]

Would this qualify them as "Walt Wannabes"?    >

I believe the correct term is "Waltabees"

 

[FJAG]

I think it 'twas ever so. I know it was that way when I joined the Militia in 1974, and never changed much until I ended up my days, once again, in the Reserve in 2012.

I'll take that back ten years to 1965 when I joined artillery in Toronto. At the time we had amalgamated three regiments into one and could muster twenty four detachment commander sergeants and almost three hundred people on parade. On the other hand we went on exercises with 4 or 5 men for each of our eight guns (there should have been 7) and on one exercise in Meaford I was given command of a gun detachment as a gunner because no sergeants and only a few bombardiers showed up.

Kit recovery from people who simply stopped parading was also an issue although our procedures were a little less legalistic than they are today. As drivers from our transport section we'd be dispatched around the city and simply show up at people's houses, knock on the door and say that we're here for "Joe Bloggins'" kit, walk in, pick up everything armyish and leave.

As you said: "'twas ever so".

:cheers:

 

[daftandbarmy]

I believe the correct term is "Waltabees"

Gold  :nod:

 

[MilEME09]

Too many Army Reserve units are unwilling to take the necessary action to release folks who rarely show up and don't contribute.  Of course, they are not helped by higher headquarters that state, in writing, that Pers Admin is about #5 on the priority list (until it gets bumped further down).

Sounds about right, like my signature says about my unit, we may call our selves one thing but when we do a head count its a different story. Our platoon has 36 pers on paper, eliminate the every one above MCpl and we maybe have 24. Remove those that say work up in the oil sands and we only see once every three months, and those I call "fair weather" soldiers, we maybe have a pool of 8-12 people we can potentially see on any given training night on a good day. Lowest turn out I've seen is 4, and yet our CoC's solution has been and continues to be "ask your buddies wtf, and get them to come out"

 

[Eowyn]

Sounds about right, like my signature says about my unit, we may call our selves one thing but when we do a head count its a different story. Our platoon has 36 pers on paper, eliminate the every one above MCpl and we maybe have 24. Remove those that say work up in the oil sands and we only see once every three months, and those I call "fair weather" soldiers, we maybe have a pool of 8-12 people we can potentially see on any given training night on a good day. Lowest turn out I've seen is 4, and yet our CoC's solution has been and continues to be "ask your buddies wtf, and get them to come out"

And if you were the shoes of your CoC, what would your solution be?

 

[MilEME09]

And if you were the shoes of your CoC, what would your solution be?

Well for one I wouldn't be protecting those people who might not be able to show up due to work for months at a time. Policy clearly says they you must attend one in every five training days, if you cant meet that minimum commitment in the long term, you should be sent on your way. One thing my OC tried but was told he couldn't do was prevent people from going on career courses who were soldiers of convenience. Instead he set up a simple marit list for the battalion, those in good standing with the unit would know about the cool/fun/gucci courses first and have first crack at them.

 

[pbi]

Well for one I wouldn't be protecting those people who might not be able to show up due to work for months at a time. Policy clearly says they you must attend one in every five training days, if you cant meet that minimum commitment in the long term, you should be sent on your way. One thing my OC tried but was told he couldn't do was prevent people from going on career courses who were soldiers of convenience. Instead he set up a simple marit list for the battalion, those in good standing with the unit would know about the cool/fun/gucci courses first and have first crack at them.

Why was he told he couldn't do this? Why can't course selection reflect merit? Is it a military unit or an employment agency? Reservists don't somehow "deserve" full time employment as some kind of entitlement. If you can't contribute, don't expect to stand in the way of those who can.

Now, should we be reasonable about people who have real civvy job committments? Yes, of course, or the Reserve will be populated with the unemployed and unemployable. But not, I suggest, to the point that it begins to harm the unit. The CO is responsible for the good order, function and efficiency of the unit, and has to be able to take reasonable measures to do that.

 

[MilEME09]

Why was he told he couldn't do this? Why can't course selection reflect merit? Is it a military unit or an employment agency? Reservists don't somehow "deserve" full time employment as some kind of entitlement. If you can't contribute, don't expect to stand in the way of those who can.

Now, should we be reasonable about people who have real civvy job committments? Yes, of course, or the Reserve will be populated with the unemployed and unemployable. But not, I suggest, to the point that it begins to harm the unit. The CO is responsible for the good order, function and efficiency of the unit, and has to be able to take reasonable measures to do that.

I'll have to get back to you on that one, but I suspect he isn't allowed to block career courses. I agree with you that we need to be flexible, but when you have say a section commander working in Ft Mac 90% of his time, who cant keep up with emails and keeping his section informed and sending up returns. Should the unit not consider "okay, clearly things arent working here, maybe you should go on ED&T while your away or release/sup reserve"

 

[Eowyn]

Why was he told he couldn't do this? Why can't course selection reflect merit? Is it a military unit or an employment agency? Reservists don't somehow "deserve" full time employment as some kind of entitlement. If you can't contribute, don't expect to stand in the way of those who can.

Now, should we be reasonable about people who have real civvy job committments? Yes, of course, or the Reserve will be populated with the unemployed and unemployable. But not, I suggest, to the point that it begins to harm the unit. The CO is responsible for the good order, function and efficiency of the unit, and has to be able to take reasonable measures to do that.

I suspect it is a "cultural" mind set.  In the past there has been pressure from higher to get the troops trained up to QL5 and PLQ mod 6 because of the lack of instructors for the summer courses.  In addition, there has been a focus to attempt career management of the lower ranks to make sure they aren't languishing.  These factors add up to an reluctance of denying courses.

 

[Eowyn]

Well for one I wouldn't be protecting those people who might not be able to show up due to work for months at a time. Policy clearly says they you must attend one in every five training days, if you cant meet that minimum commitment in the long term, you should be sent on your way. One thing my OC tried but was told he couldn't do was prevent people from going on career courses who were soldiers of convenience. Instead he set up a simple marit list for the battalion, those in good standing with the unit would know about the cool/fun/gucci courses first and have first crack at them.

I can assure you that the NES policy is enforced.  Between the Adjt and the OR, a NES report is generated monthly.  What you may not know is the NES procedure is quite lengthy and time consuming.  The best outcome is when the member receives the first letter, they decide to voluntarily release.  That speeds things up considerably.  Several people have chosen that in the past couple of months.

As well, there are some soldiers make sure they make a parade a month to stay off that report.  Are they effective?  No, but there is lower hanging fruit to get at.

 

[NSDreamer]

I can assure you that the NES policy is enforced.  Between the Adjt and the OR, a NES report is generated monthly.  What you may not know is the NES procedure is quite lengthy and time consuming.  The best outcome is when the member receives the first letter, they decide to voluntarily release.  That speeds things up considerably.  Several people have chosen that in the past couple of months.

That might be true in your case, but I've recommended 3 people this year for NES release, both having more then just one occurrence, but in fact a pattern of failing to parade, making BS excuses to not parade ( My friend came from university to visit so I can't go do our BFT) I point all these out, I offer troops assistance in getting time off work,I even offered one of said 3 troops help getting a higher paying position at my  company, they told me they would send me their resume.  3 Months later, no parade, no resume, submitted for NES, 7 months later? Still up at BDE Hq/Div Hq.

It's not just the unit level that holds up the NES.

 

[dapaterson]

NES letters go out with the CO's signature, on the CO's authority.  No need for Bde/Div engagement until release.

 

[NSDreamer]

NES letters go out with the CO's signature, on the CO's authority.  No need for Bde/Div engagement until release.

Well this concerns me more, as this is the response I'm getting from my OR... Looks like it's time for a phone call  :facepalm:

 

[dapaterson]

Well this concerns me more, as this is the response I'm getting from my OR... Looks like it's time for a phone call  :facepalm:

If they are already NES nd the CO has sent them in for 5f release, then the paperwork will have gone up the chain.

Look at A-PM-245; chapter 19 is Reserve pers admin, and chapter 15 is Release.

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps we are confusing the initiating of Release for NES through the Registered Letter sent out in the name of the CO of the unit and the actual Release procedure that involves documentation and acknowledgement/approvals at higher commands.  I don't believe that a CO has approving authority for the Articles of Release given to a member; only the ability to recommend. 

 

[dapaterson]

Short version: For Pte-CWO and OCdt, a CO is the release authority for a 4a, 4c or 5a release.  For a 5f release, for Pte-CWO and OCdt the release authority is the Div Comd; for commissioned officers, it is the Div Comd who is the authority to initiate release.  The release authority for all commissioned officers, regardless of the reason, is the Governor General.

 

[NSDreamer]

After consultation, the above is certainly correct. The members are waiting on release paperwork, or rather the CoC, two of the members haven't called in to the unit to query proceedings yet despite multiple voicemails.  :-\