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Defence Policy in the 2006 General Election

Points taken Gunner.

I hope you are wrong.  I will cling to my "delusions" for a while longer.

I like your large units in the centre of major cities (like NDHQ?  :) or better yet like CFB Calgary?),  and your freedom of the city parades.  As to remote stations, I get Goose Bay (not been there) and Iqaluit (there neither), but do Trenton, Comox and Jonquiere really qualify as remote?
 
I was talking to Matt Fisher the other day and we agreed that the "Superbase" approach like we see in the US is the better than scattering units to the wind, but a Brigade based anywhere in Canada should be near a decent community and also have a respectable training area.  Ft Lewis, Ft Bragg, and Ft Hood come to mind.  If the Army was to plunk a 5000 man Brigade in a decent sized town, there would be a boost to the civilian economy and a larger civilian population as a consequence.

So, in essence, instead of seeing new units scattered to Comox and Jonquiere, I'd rather see new units consolidated and a new Brigade (or at least Bde -) put somewhere where one could meet both of the above requirements.  Perhaps in the Okanagan in BC (where there is plenty of land for a training area to be acquired and some descent-sized communties like Kamloops, Kelowna, Vernon, Peniction) as an example?
 
I agree. Its a waste of funds to scatter every unit to all ends of the country. For what? Army representation? We still have have reserve units that represent the CF as well.
 
So, in essence, instead of seeing new units scattered to Comox and Jonquiere, I'd rather see new units consolidated and a new Brigade (or at least Bde -) put somewhere where one could meet both of the above requirements.  Perhaps in the Okanagan in BC (where there is plenty of land for a training area to be acquired and some decent-sized communties like Kamloops, Kelowna, Vernon, Peniction) as an example?

I guess what I am frustrated about with the CPC is a lack of depth to their policy issues.  Stand up an Airborne Regiment. Not necessarily opposed to it but for what purpose?  Stand up Rapid Reaction Bns in remote areas, again not necessarily opposed to it but for what purpose?  Stand up an Artic Training Centre..ok, but for what overall purpose?  Stand up 500 man (100 Reg/400 Res) Home Defence Units...for what purpose.  Etc, etc, etc.  Maybe that is too much to expect during an election but the devil is in the details.

Do you think there is room for a brigade in the Okanagan?  It would probably take significant cash resources to create a base and training area there when we have suitable ones already on the Prairies....
 
Gunner said:
Maybe that is too much to expect during an election but the devil is in the details.

Spoken like a true Staff Officer.... ;)

Do you think there is room for a brigade in the Okanagan?  It would probably take significant cash resources to create a base and training area there when we have suitable ones already on the Prairies....

Well, if I were simply increasing the number of new units, I would probably just expand at Shilo or Gagetown (if it could be done).  Shilo seems to get dumped on, but my buddy in 2VP says that Brandon is close enough to ensure that being posted there is not quite the "sticks" - it ain't Winnipeg, but I'm from a town of 10,000 and we got Walmart! :)

My idea for the Okanagan was based upon opening up bases in new areas of Canada.  Thinking on it, putting a major army unit/formation on Vancouver Island is a bad idea - having family there, I can attest to the difficulty of getting on or off the island.  Try moving a battalion via BC Ferries. ^-^  In two areas in the Okanagon/Thompson area that me and Matt discussed, Merritt or Vernon, there seems to be ample room for a base and training area.  These are nice communities and are .5-1 hour drive (no different then St Albert to Whyte Ave  :)) on good roads to a very large city with all the urban services such as university access, big malls, airports (Kamloops and Kelowna - both over 100,000 IIRC).  This is just a cursory idea of where to "build new CF presence" based on a few principles I discussed above for locating new garrisons.  The devil, as you say, is in the details.
 
Infanteer said:
This is just a cursory idea of where to "build new CF presence" based on a few principles I discussed above for locating new garrisons.  The devil, as you say, is in the details.

Can I suggest that the landward side of the expected earthquake zone might be the place to start for "new" western garrisons?
 
Michael O'Leary said:
Can I suggest that the landward side of the expected earthquake zone might be the place to start for "new" western garrisons?

But ... but then we wouldn't need the big honkin' ship...
 
Can I suggest that the landward side of the expected earthquake zone might be the place to start for "new" western garrisons?

The other element to this is what type of unit would be stationed there which would drive training requirements.
 
Gunner said:
I guess what I am frustrated about with the CPC is a lack of depth to their policy issues.
My thoughts exactly.

Gunner said:
Maybe that is too much to expect during an election but the devil is in the details.
At the very least, we could expect them to have an opinion on transformation initiatives that are already in the works.  Mr O'Connor has indicated that some/many initiatives may be aborted, but he has not said which ones.  Even when asked specifically about CSOR, he could not say if it would exist under a Torie government.  Does the Conservative defence critic have so little an idea of what is actually going-on in the CF that the party cannot form an opinion on major changes currently in the works?

It seems that the Conservative platform is battalions in the wind & the Liberal platform is the current transformation that we are undergoing.
 
From a strictly political standpoint though their campaign strategy seems to be successful to date.  By breaking policies down into 56 bite size morsels, one for each day, it allows them to give the press something to report but no hard target for the other parties to attack.

Apologia 79.... ;)  I make no bones about it.  I am supporting the CPC this time.
 
I don't want the army penny-packeted out to bases across the country.  I'd rather buy aircraft.  I think it unlikely one earthquake is going to nail YVR, Abbotsford, Sea-Tac, McChord, Gray AAF, etc.
 
Kirkhill said:
From a strictly political standpoint though their campaign strategy seems to be successful to date.  By breaking policies down into 56 bite size morsels, one for each day, it allows them to give the press something to report but no hard target for the other parties to attack.
I think there is plenty to attack; particularly the lack of over-arching policy that ties all these announcments together into a coherent vision.  As I've mentioned, all it consists of is large numbers of troops spread on the wind.
 
McG:

There is plenty to attack for those of you whose lives are inextricably intertwined with the decisions.  Unfortunately most voters glaze over at the details.

All they want to hear about is that money is going to those things they believe in.  The good news is that they believe in spending money on you.  The bad news is they don't want to spend too much money.

By putting out elements of the defence policy in dribs and drabs, by pandering to local concerns, this may get local voters to say "that sounds like a good idea, I can see a need for a new armoury, with a permanent staff backed by volunteers. I'll back that".  Or "500 more people for the Arctic and 3 ice breakers with 200 people and a couple of UAV squadrons.  That doesn't seem like an unreasonable investment".

By taking the policy to the electorate in small doses of "reasonable" projects,  and getting local buy in, to use the buzz word of the trade then the rationale for the budget may become more supportable so that eventually all the individual components can be knitted together into one overarching policy and presented in toto.

The alternative has been to put all of defence policy into a one day release of mind-numbing detail and a frighteningly large price tag on the status quo, let alone the price of increasing capabilities.

This is salesmanship pure and simple.

No salesman ever makes a sale by announcing the price and then letting the customer read the details.  Better strategy is to either ignore or go high on the price (offered as a ball park figure) and then lead the customer through the details of what the programme can do for them,  bit by bit, dollar by dollar.

I understand the CPC strategy.  I doesn't necessarily mean that I have to like the necessity for doing business this way.  I just hope, that as ethical salesmen, they present the final proposal in time for it to be considered prior to us issuing them the "cheque" at the ballot box.

And yes it may be pork-barelling, but keep in mind the money you lot are asking for is coming from the same trough that the rest of society feeds at.

Keep in mind that as true as it is that there is only one taxpayer it is equally true that 50% of the economy flows through government coffers.  That means that roughly 50% of all taxpayers are reliant, directly or indirectly, on government programmes for their daily bread - welfare, EI, pensions, civil servants, crown corporations, private corporations with government contracts and, yes, the military.

If people see that programmes give benefit to them and their community, if people see that it is not an issue taking food off their table to buy you tanks to use in Iraq but rather that they can make money from a well equipped CF,  then they are more likely to allow the government to divert some more of their tax dollars so that they will flow through the CF.  They have to see that it is not an issue of Guns OR Butter but an issue of Guns AND Butter.

If that means you have to give some efficiencies to get more support and funding, Insh'allah.  That's compromise, salesmanship and politics.

Cheers.

For example - housing 650 new bodies on a base

650 bodies, allow 500 square feet per body for living space (average - including blocks for singles and PMQs), allow 50 dollars per square foot to build them = $16,250,000.  That is money that can flow directly into the local economy employing local trades people.  For a relatively low investment in added funds to the CF budget then the government can not only put up a local presence, but also pump money into the local economy (which mollified the Germans at Lahr) and get you lot new quarters. 

Yes there is an impact on operations - and that isn't necessarily good - it depends on what the government intends all these dispersed units to do and how they will operate, agreed, and there I too am waiting for detail.  With rumours of amphibious, airborne and arctic capable troops it may also not all be bad.
 
Here is the Ruxted Group's take on Defence Politics in this election:
Editorial: Election Defence Policies 

Kirkhill,
Don't you think this method of buying voters is open to attack?  How is Defence pork-barrel politics any better than what the Tory's attack-adds focus about the Liberals?
 
Certainly its open to attack.  By whom?
 
Graham promotes military vision in Edmonton
Edmonton Journal
Published: January 9, 2006

Defence Minister Bill Graham is promoting the Liberal vision for national defence in the home of the largest military base in the West.

Graham is in Edmonton to boost the campaign fortunes of Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan and other Liberal candidates at a time when defence has become a prominent issue in the election campaign.

His campaign swing through the Alberta capital is seen as an attempt to slow some of the momentum the Conservatives gained on defence issues in a military centre.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is promising to hike military spending by $5.3 billion over five years.

His plans include a 650-member airborne strike force, a scaled-down version of the airborne regiment that was disbanded amid protests in 1995.

He also promised to purchase three more transport planes, a new transport ship and to have a military presence in major cities across Canada.

This came as military officials revealed plans to set up a 750-member elite fighting force similar to the U.S. Green Berets to supplement the secretive Joint Task Force 2.

Military promises have a particular resonance in Edmonton, the home base for all the land forces in the West.

The western land forces were consolidated here under McLellan’s watch. Her supporters credit her for her for keeping the base in Edmonton in face of plans to move it elsewhere and using her political muscle to expand it.

But her critics say the future of the base was decided before she was elected in 1993.

She is in for another close race in her Edmonton Centre riding. Conservative Laurie Hawn, a retired jetfighter pilot who lost to her in 2004 by about 700 votes, is again trying to defeat her.

He says the military plays a greater role in the public consciousness in Edmonton than elsewhere.

"There is appreciation for what they (the military) do and sympathy for the plight the military is in for historic lack of support," he says. "That is getting better. Even the Liberals have come to consider they have to do something about it."

He believes McLellan is vulnerable over the general lack of Liberal government support for the military.

The credit she receives for turning CFB Edmonton into a super-base "is completely false" he says. "There are many more issues we have to take her to task for."

The Journal’s Gordon Kent will have full coverage of Graham’s campaign swing through Edmonton in Tuesday’s Journal.
 
Harper : International consensus needed for war
Updated Tue. Jan. 10 2006 4:04 PM ET

Canadian Press

OTTAWA — It would take a major international consensus to persuade a Conservative government to commit troops to any future war, Stephen Harper said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

He also reiterated his promise to keep the country out of the U.S.-led conflict in Iraq.

The remarks represent a further watering down of his previous position, which was highlighted in 2003 when he said Canada "should be shoulder-to-shoulder'' with the Americans in Iraq.

Earlier in the campaign for the Jan. 23 election, the Tory leader denied he ever supported the conflict and said, as prime minister, his guide for future wars would be: "The stronger the international consensus, the stronger basis for Canadian participation.''

The statement puts Harper on the same page as NDP Leader Jack Layton, who declared in a recent television interview that, "when (military) action has to be taken by Canada it's going to be taken. But, it has to be taken in the context of some kind of international consensus.''

The only qualification that Harper put on his position was that there is no cut-and-dried template for dealing with international crises.

"It's fair to say Canada would never be acting alone,'' he said.

"Beyond that you have to look at the particular circumstances that present themselves.''

The Tory leader would not tie himself to fighting exclusively under the mandate of the United Nations, which the government of former prime minister Jean Chretien set as the minimum for participation in Iraq.

The Liberals fought an air war in Kosovo under NATO and are about to commit troops in southern Afghanistan under the same banner, Harper said.

As far as he is concerned, the lack of commitment to the military spending has made Canada's international voice largely irrelevant.

"Right now, the brutal reality is it doesn't matter to these countries what position Canada takes on these issues. because our current government has left the country so weak,'' Harper said.

Over the next five years, the Conservatives have pledged to spend $5.3 billion more on defence than Liberals set aside in their last budget.

Emphasizing the economic spinoffs of military spending, the party has said it will buy new strategic lift aircraft and ships.

It would reform the disbanded airborne battalion, placing it and at least three other units close to air bases around the country for fast deployment to international hotspots.

The airborne unit would be based in Trenton, Ont., despite a plea, prior to the election, from Conservative MP Cheryl Gallant, for it to be located at Petawawa, Ont., in her riding.

Two other battalion-sized units would be located in Comox, B.C. and Bagotville, Que.

A fourth unit would be placed in Atlantic Canada, although Harper refuses to say where until his party's defence strategy for the region is released later this week. The military wants to site a rapid reaction force in Nova Scotia, near the Shearwater air base.


Harper wouldn't say whether he plans to disregard that advice and put the unit somewhere else.

A least one defence analyst is unimpressed and is concerned politics will trump sound military planning.

"Clearly there is a lot of political porridge involved in these pledges,'' said David Rudd, president of the Toronto-based Canadian Institute of Strategy Studies.

"Mr. Harper wants to appeal to the regions, which is understandable. It's even politically astute. But so many of the pledges either make little military sense, or, taken together, are unaffordable.''

http://www.ctv.ca//servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060103/ELXN_harper_war_060109/20060110?s_name=election2006&no_ads=

PS.  In the new array of "Kill Stephen" attack ads the Liberals had one criticising Harper for wanting to put "Soldiers, with guns" in Canadian cities.  Interestingly that ad was pulled from their web site within hours.  Speculation on CTV was the the military had made it known that they weren't pleased at having it suggested that they might be used against Canadians.

Here's the link to all the ad in question:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/38335.0.html

As to Rudd's comment.  I guess we'll have to wait and see on the budget.

Cheers.





 
http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/audio/ProudToBeCanadian.ca_CTV_Liberal_ad_Cancelled.wmv
 
We were driving down the highway doing 20 in an LSVW the other day, people passing us with irritated looks on their faces...

I wanted to put a sign on the back of the truck that said "If you voted conservative, you'd be going faster right now."
 
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