Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)

[The Bread Guy]

And this happens no matter what colour jerseys the "Opposition of the Day" is wearing.

On the news stories online there is the letter that General Fraser sent praising the MND for deployment there, its quite the read ...

Do you have links to these bits o' information?  It would help put the comments into a bit of context - thanks!

... She's quicker than a gun slinger when it comes to capitalizing on liberal faux pas and facts seem to take a backseat to drama ...

#OppositionForTheSakeOfOpposition

 

[Lightguns]

Chris Vernon - Retired Senior British Army Officer who was Chief of Staff of the Canadian-led HQ in Kandahar - Operation Medusa

https://omny.fm/shows/am640-the-morning-show/chris-vernon-retired-senior-british-army-officer-w#description

Good enough for me.

 

[Lumber]

Chris Vernon - Retired Senior British Army Officer who was Chief of Staff of the Canadian-led HQ in Kandahar - Operation Medusa

https://omny.fm/shows/am640-the-morning-show/chris-vernon-retired-senior-british-army-officer-w#description

I just had a listen to this.

As an ignorant by-stander, if I'm to weigh the opinions of Mr. Allen (negative of Minister Sajjan) vs. the opinions of Mr. Vernon, General Fraser, and LCol <insert name>(Australian; planning cell IC), who all had positive things to say of him, I'm going to side with the latter and say that, he clearly had a very important effect on the planning and ultimate success of Op Medusa.

So, did he play a critical role? Yes. Did he use improper terminology? More or less. There are not "architects" in Ops planning; it's a group effort. Did he embellish to make himself look better? Absolutely! Do I care? Absolutely not!

We started talking about this yesterday in the messes (we have mixed messes most days), and the consensus of everyone in my unit was whoopadydoo.

 

[Jed]

I just had a listen to this.

As an ignorant by-stander, if I'm to weigh the opinions of Mr. Allen (negative of Minister Sajjan) vs. the opinions of Mr. Vernon, General Fraser, and LCol <insert name>(Australian; planning cell IC), who all had positive things to say of him, I'm going to side with the latter and say that, he clearly had a very important effect on the planning and ultimate success of Op Medusa.

So, did he play a critical role? Yes. Did he use improper terminology? More or less. There are not "architects" in Ops planning; it's a group effort. Did he embellish to make himself look better? Absolutely! Do I care? Absolutely not!

We started talking about this yesterday in the messes (we have mixed messes most days), and the consensus of everyone in my unit was whoopadydoo.

From all sources there is no doubt in my mind that the soldier, Maj. Sajjan acted in a courageous, highly effective and honourable manner during his role in Op Medusa or his past service prior to him leaving the CAF. What is in question is the less than honourable self inflation of his exploits since becoming MND.  In WWII Gen Patton was a great soldier who peed in the pickles and had to be reined in by others like Eisenhauer and Omar Bradley so this type of thing is not new.

I no longer wear the uniform so I can not pretend to represent the consensus of opinion from currently serving personnel. With that said, I feel that as the MND, he has lost a considerable amount of respect and good will from many soldiers and his continued leadership is in question. For the good of the Country  and the CAF he should man up and tender his resignation and move on to some other political position that this Trudeau government feels he is good at doing.

I find it disappointing that the consensus of  opinion of currently serving soldiers feel that 'Whoopdydoo" who really cares that our leadership is less than hounourable and is prone to embellishment and lying. If indeed, this is an actual consensus of opinion by the rank and file.  If you don't hold your leadership to the highest of standards how can you hold your own behavior to the highest of standards?

Whatever happened to the RCR saying 'Never pass a fault' ?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

From all sources there is no doubt in my mind that the soldier, Maj. Sajjan acted in a courageous, highly effective and honourable manner during his role in Op Medusa or his past service prior to him leaving the CAF. What is in question is the less than honourable self inflation of his exploits since becoming MND.  In WWII Gen Patton was a great soldier who peed in the pickles and had to be reined in by others like Eisenhauer and Omar Bradley so this type of thing is not new.

I no longer wear the uniform so I can not pretend to represent the consensus of opinion from currently serving personnel. With that said, I feel that as the MND, he has lost a considerable amount of respect and good will from many soldiers and his continued leadership is in question. For the good of the Country  and the CAF he should man up and tender his resignation and move on to some other political position that this Trudeau government feels he is good at doing.

I find it disappointing that the consensus of  opinion of currently serving soldiers feel that 'Whoopdydoo" who really cares that our leadership is less than hounourable and is prone to embellishment and lying. If indeed, this is an actual consensus of opinion by the rank and file.  If you don't hold your leadership to the highest of standards how can you hold your own behavior to the highest of standards?

Whatever happened to the RCR saying 'Never pass a fault' ?

And this is why, as I've stated multiple times, Officers should refrain from politics.  If they do get involved in politics, they should stay as far away from the Defence Portfolio as a possible, not only to protect the institution but also protect themselves.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I find it disappointing that the consensus of  opinion of currently serving soldiers feel that 'Whoopdydoo" who really cares that our leadership is less than hounourable and is prone to embellishment and lying. If indeed, this is an actual consensus of opinion by the rank and file.  If you don't hold your leadership to the highest of standards how can you hold your own behavior to the highest of standards?

Whatever happened to the RCR saying 'Never pass a fault' ?

Bollocks.  The Minister is not my leader.  The CDS is.  The vast majority of the CAF could not name the last MND, let alone the last three.  Let's try and keep a bit of perspective here

 

[Jed]

Bollocks.  The Minister is not my leader.  The CDS is.  The vast majority of the CAF could not name the last MND, let alone the last three.  Let's try and keep a bit of perspective here

Sorry. I don't buy your sentiment. I can recall most of the MND's for the past 30 years. They were always the face of civilian overwatch to the military. They have always had a huge impact on what happens in the CAF.

 

[GAP]

Sorry. I don't buy your sentiment. I can recall most of the MND's for the past 30 years. They were always the face of civilian overwatch to the military. They have always had a huge impact on what happens in the CAF.

I think they have very little impact other than to convey the desires of the PM, et al......they are nothing more than a representative and that is how they operated.

 

[Jed]

I think they have very little impact other than to convey the desires of the PM, et al......they are nothing more than a representative and that is how they operated.

I would hope, this may be a forlorn hope, that they would be persuasive in the back room meetings of the Cabinet. Maybe in the heady days of WWI, WWII and the 50's they had more sway.

 

[Remius]

Bollocks.  The Minister is not my leader.  The CDS is.  The vast majority of the CAF could not name the last MND, let alone the last three.  Let's try and keep a bit of perspective here

Exactly.  the CDS leads the CAF not the minister.

Personally I think that the government puts someone in place with a military background when they are planning to deliver bad news or make unpopular decisions.  Thinking that maybe the messenger will be a familiar face and one that can relate. 

 

[Journeyman]

No matter how much people currently dislike the Minister...... it's not Leslie. 

 

[Jed]

I think I detect a lot of political party bias kicking in here.  [ Possibly from all the parties.

 

[Lightguns]

No matter how much people currently dislike the Minister...... it's not Leslie. 

Thank God......

 

[Rifleman62]

No matter how much people currently dislike the Minister...... it's not Leslie. 

Yet.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Thank God......

To both Lightguns and Journeyman above :goodpost:  Rifleman62... bite your tongue the good idea fairy might be listening  :tsktsk:

While the CDS is my leader, he still gets his marching orders from the MND.  Sort of a chicken or egg idea, no?

 

[Kat Stevens]

No matter how much people currently dislike the Minister...... it's not Leslie. 

Yet. Who do you think is the next liberalogical choice if The Great Architecht steps down over this?

 

[Lumber]

Yet. Who do you think is the next liberalogical choice if The Great Architecht steps down over this?

My money's on Judy Foote.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Yet.

So young to be so cynical  ;D

That said, I have to agree - never say never ...

 

[Altair]

Yet. Who do you think is the next liberalogical choice if The Great Architecht steps down over this?

karen mccrimmon?

 

[cavalryman]

Yet. Who do you think is the next liberalogical choice if The Great Architecht steps down over this?

Maryam Monsef  [